Public comments v natural justice

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Public comments v natural justice

4/16

tussuck
2 years ago

Quoting Jay-Dee on 02 Dec 2022 09:14 AM
It's been very interesting to observe how many have either party guilty or innocent based on what's been reported or opined in the media. And if what has been reported about the trial is accurate, from what I've read neither seem to be particularly credible witnesses under the circumstances.

Unfortunately the outcome is two lives (at least) are now certainly never going to be the same and the media has had a field day.

I am even worse! I have not followed this at all as i do not listen to the news.

I just saw a picture of him and he oozes Pedo/Sleezball 100% which was enough for me...

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Scouser
2 years ago

My 10 cents
Can anyone explain why she had organised a book deal, and even gone through the chapter placement before she went to the police again after she had declined to make a complaint

From the court below

Higgins confirmed the deal she eventually secured was worth more than $320,000.

She admitted having an outline and chapters planned some months before she reopened her complaint with police.

Higgins earlier told the court she made doctor's appointments with every intention of going but due to her depressive state she was not physically able to attend.

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paulybronco
2 years ago

There's several discrepancies in both peoples version of events on the night. This is a further example of a increasing woke culture at the highest level with Scomo offering a apology to Brittany Higgins in Parliament "I am sorry. We are sorry. I am sorry to Ms Higgins for the terrible things that took place here," he said. Not sure how that shows a presumption of innocence to the accused, infact its a direct inference of guilt to the accused. Brittany Higgins gets the ACT Victims of Crime Commissioner to be by her side every day of the trial. Interestingly she doesn't attend court on behalf of other Victims of Crime. She was seen on every occasion nodding and gesturing as Brittany spoke to the press on several occasions including at the mistrial announcement. Indeed, Ms Higgins’ comments made in the wake of the mistrial have since been referred to the court and police by Mr Lehrman's lawyers.

Ratbob
2 years ago

Quoting Scouser on 02 Dec 2022 11:32 PMedited: 02 Dec 2022 11:35 PM
My 10 cents
Can anyone explain why she had organised a book deal, and even gone through the chapter placement before she went to the police again after she had declined to make a complaint

From the court below

Higgins confirmed the deal she eventually secured was worth more than $320,000.

She admitted having an outline and chapters planned some months before she reopened her complaint with police.

Higgins earlier told the court she made doctor's appointments with every intention of going but due to her depressive state she was not physically able to attend.

$320,000 for some scribblings? Almost small change. To me it’s just the beginning of her much larger plan.
I won’t be surprised when she runs for parliament.

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paulybronco
2 years ago

Ha Ha could happen. The book deal is dead...i did laugh though when i read a article saying that she should be allowed to publish the book and Bruce Lehrman shouldn't charge her for defamation....the world has gone nuts!

Grease Monkey
2 years ago

Sleazebag sticks dick into drunk girl......a no-no in this era, wasn't really condoned in the past and happend lots, true yes? and if she was my daughter I would flog the dirtbag if the opportunity arose.

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Scouser
2 years ago

Quoting Grease Monkey on 03 Dec 2022 10:27 AM
Sleazebag sticks dick into drunk girl......a no-no in this era, wasn't really condoned in the past and happend lots, true yes? and if she was my daughter I would flog the dirtbag if the opportunity arose.

Allegedly

Or according to the media but we will now never know as the case will not go ahead.
Why?

paulybronco
2 years ago

To add further spice to the mix the cops were concerned that she was a unreliable witness from the outset. The DPP was aware of the reports and proceeded anyway. After the mistrial the DPP tried to have the law changed to allow Brittany to not appear in court to give evidence in person. Think that someone should be sniffing around this story.

408
2 years ago

Quoting paulybronco on 03 Dec 2022 11:57 AM
To add further spice to the mix the cops were concerned that she was a unreliable witness from the outset. The DPP was aware of the reports and proceeded anyway. After the mistrial the DPP tried to have the law changed to allow Brittany to not appear in court to give evidence in person. Think that someone should be sniffing around this story.

Interesting the way you cherry-pick info from articles. The police brief and notes were unlawfully disclosed to the media and to Lehrmann’s defence to undermine Higgin’s testimony.

paulybronco
2 years ago

The prohibited material disclosed to the defence, which also included Ms Higgins videotaped record of interview with police, was sent to Mr Lehrmann’s original defence lawyers, not his current defence barrister Steve Whybrow. It followed a fight between prosecutors and police over whether there was enough evidence to prosecute and police complaints the case was “political”.
The most senior cop on the Brittany Higgins case, also believed there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Bruce Lehrmann.
He advised investigators “have serious concerns in relation to the strength of (Ms Higgins’) evidence but also more importantly her mental health and how any future prosecution may affect her wellbeing”.
Seems the cop was spot on.

408
2 years ago

Quoting paulybronco on 04 Dec 2022 01:12 AM
The prohibited material disclosed to the defence, which also included Ms Higgins videotaped record of interview with police, was sent to Mr Lehrmann’s original defence lawyers, not his current defence barrister Steve Whybrow. It followed a fight between prosecutors and police over whether there was enough evidence to prosecute and police complaints the case was “political”.
The most senior cop on the Brittany Higgins case, also believed there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Bruce Lehrmann.
He advised investigators “have serious concerns in relation to the strength of (Ms Higgins’) evidence but also more importantly her mental health and how any future prosecution may affect her wellbeing”.
Seems the cop was spot on.

You need to do a bit more reading.
In Australia generally, and in the ACT in particular, it is the DPP who decides whether or not to prosecute the serious cases.
There is a public interest test as well as an evidence test.
The police may have had their noses out of joint, because they didn't believe there was sufficient evidence for a conviction.
Maybe they should have spent more time investigating Lehrmann, rather than Higgins.
Maybe that is why 'protected evidence', including personal, confidential, psychological counselling notes were unlawfully sent to the defence lawyers on a usb stick. This incident is currently under investigation.
And you think that evidence was not accessed by the first solicitor ? , and not available to Whybrow ?
The defence case was for all intents and purposes, an attack on Higgins' mental health. They asserted that the incident was imagined, and it became her 'truth'.
You think that was a coincidence ?
The security guard found her, pissed, passed out, naked, on her back, on the couch.
Perhaps Higgins imagined that too.

Scouser
2 years ago

From the media today
Shes now after the cash, maybe the book deal fell through?
She is now suing the government

Also this

On Friday, ACT Director of Public Prosecutions Shane Drumgold SC had made his announcement that the case would no longer be pursued.

Mr Lehrmann had been due to face a retrial in February, after the first trial was abandoned due to juror misconduct in October.

It has now emerged that police believed there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Mr Lehrmann after he was accused of sexual assault by Ms Higgins, according to diary notes made by the most senior police officer on the case.

ACT Police Manager of Criminal Investigations Detective Superintendent Scott Moller claimed in his notes that Mr Drumgold had decided to push on with the case regardless.

He wrote down a conversation where superintendent Moller and his boss, ACT Deputy Chief Police Officer Michael Chew, warned Mr Drumgold about proceeding.

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paulybronco
2 years ago

Quoting paulybronco on 04 Dec 2022 01:12 AM
The prohibited material disclosed to the defence, which also included Ms Higgins videotaped record of interview with police, was sent to Mr Lehrmann’s original defence lawyers, not his current defence barrister Steve Whybrow. It followed a fight between prosecutors and police over whether there was enough evidence to prosecute and police complaints the case was “political”.
The most senior cop on the Brittany Higgins case, also believed there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Bruce Lehrmann.
He advised investigators “have serious concerns in relation to the strength of (Ms Higgins’) evidence but also more importantly her mental health and how any future prosecution may affect her wellbeing”.
Seems the cop was spot on.

Quoting 408 on 04 Dec 2022 02:30 AMedited: 04 Dec 2022 02:31 AM

You need to do a bit more reading.
In Australia generally, and in the ACT in particular, it is the DPP who decides whether or not to prosecute the serious cases.
There is a public interest test as well as an evidence test.
The police may have had their noses out of joint, because they didn't believe there was sufficient evidence for a conviction.
Maybe they should have spent more time investigating Lehrmann, rather than Higgins.
Maybe that is why 'protected evidence', including personal, confidential, psychological counselling notes were unlawfully sent to the defence lawyers on a usb stick. This incident is currently under investigation.
And you think that evidence was not accessed by the first solicitor ? , and not available to Whybrow ?
The defence case was for all intents and purposes, an attack on Higgins' mental health. They asserted that the incident was imagined, and it became her 'truth'.
You think that was a coincidence ?
The security guard found her, pissed, passed out, naked, on her back, on the couch.
Perhaps Higgins imagined that too.

Your right the security guard did testify to that......evidence tendered indicates Brittany said this "I woke up in the morning half dressed by myself in the minister's office on Saturday morning." Brittany imagined that.
I don't personally hold any social media accounts but have been shown a instagram post from her account, posted 2hrs ago....interesting read. The photos with the post dont show this crippling mental health concern...
Some interesting points in this article....
https://spectator.com.au/2022/12/brittany-higgins-case-finally-over/

paulybronco
2 years ago

Quoting Scouser on 04 Dec 2022 03:01 AM
From the media today
Shes now after the cash, maybe the book deal fell through?
She is now suing the government

Also this

On Friday, ACT Director of Public Prosecutions Shane Drumgold SC had made his announcement that the case would no longer be pursued.

Mr Lehrmann had been due to face a retrial in February, after the first trial was abandoned due to juror misconduct in October.

It has now emerged that police believed there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Mr Lehrmann after he was accused of sexual assault by Ms Higgins, according to diary notes made by the most senior police officer on the case.

ACT Police Manager of Criminal Investigations Detective Superintendent Scott Moller claimed in his notes that Mr Drumgold had decided to push on with the case regardless.

He wrote down a conversation where superintendent Moller and his boss, ACT Deputy Chief Police Officer Michael Chew, warned Mr Drumgold about proceeding.

The documents obtained by The Weekend Australian also reveal that Higgins joked in text messages about crying on The Project to deflect criticism in the media, and, six weeks before the alleged rape, wanting a political sex scandal:

‘A sex scandal the party can be proud of. Another Barnaby but without the baby haha,’ Higgins wrote. None of this was revealed in the trial.

408
2 years ago

Quoting Scouser on 04 Dec 2022 03:01 AM
From the media today
Shes now after the cash, maybe the book deal fell through?
She is now suing the government

Also this

On Friday, ACT Director of Public Prosecutions Shane Drumgold SC had made his announcement that the case would no longer be pursued.

Mr Lehrmann had been due to face a retrial in February, after the first trial was abandoned due to juror misconduct in October.

It has now emerged that police believed there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Mr Lehrmann after he was accused of sexual assault by Ms Higgins, according to diary notes made by the most senior police officer on the case.

ACT Police Manager of Criminal Investigations Detective Superintendent Scott Moller claimed in his notes that Mr Drumgold had decided to push on with the case regardless.

He wrote down a conversation where superintendent Moller and his boss, ACT Deputy Chief Police Officer Michael Chew, warned Mr Drumgold about proceeding.

Cops making sure they cover their arse. Surprise! Surprise!

408
2 years ago

Quoting Scouser on 04 Dec 2022 03:01 AM
From the media today
Shes now after the cash, maybe the book deal fell through?
She is now suing the government

Also this

On Friday, ACT Director of Public Prosecutions Shane Drumgold SC had made his announcement that the case would no longer be pursued.

Mr Lehrmann had been due to face a retrial in February, after the first trial was abandoned due to juror misconduct in October.

It has now emerged that police believed there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Mr Lehrmann after he was accused of sexual assault by Ms Higgins, according to diary notes made by the most senior police officer on the case.

ACT Police Manager of Criminal Investigations Detective Superintendent Scott Moller claimed in his notes that Mr Drumgold had decided to push on with the case regardless.

He wrote down a conversation where superintendent Moller and his boss, ACT Deputy Chief Police Officer Michael Chew, warned Mr Drumgold about proceeding.

Quoting paulybronco on 04 Dec 2022 03:46 AM
The documents obtained by The Weekend Australian also reveal that Higgins joked in text messages about crying on The Project to deflect criticism in the media, and, six weeks before the alleged rape, wanting a political sex scandal:

‘A sex scandal the party can be proud of. Another Barnaby but without the baby haha,’ Higgins wrote. None of this was revealed in the trial.

"The documents obtained by The Weekend Australian...." Read documents leaked by police.
Also under investigation at request of DPP.

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paulybronco
2 years ago

Quoting Scouser on 04 Dec 2022 03:01 AM
From the media today
Shes now after the cash, maybe the book deal fell through?
She is now suing the government

Also this

On Friday, ACT Director of Public Prosecutions Shane Drumgold SC had made his announcement that the case would no longer be pursued.

Mr Lehrmann had been due to face a retrial in February, after the first trial was abandoned due to juror misconduct in October.

It has now emerged that police believed there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Mr Lehrmann after he was accused of sexual assault by Ms Higgins, according to diary notes made by the most senior police officer on the case.

ACT Police Manager of Criminal Investigations Detective Superintendent Scott Moller claimed in his notes that Mr Drumgold had decided to push on with the case regardless.

He wrote down a conversation where superintendent Moller and his boss, ACT Deputy Chief Police Officer Michael Chew, warned Mr Drumgold about proceeding.

Quoting paulybronco on 04 Dec 2022 03:46 AM
The documents obtained by The Weekend Australian also reveal that Higgins joked in text messages about crying on The Project to deflect criticism in the media, and, six weeks before the alleged rape, wanting a political sex scandal:

‘A sex scandal the party can be proud of. Another Barnaby but without the baby haha,’ Higgins wrote. None of this was revealed in the trial.

Quoting 408 on 04 Dec 2022 04:17 AM

"The documents obtained by The Weekend Australian...." Read documents leaked by police.
Also under investigation at request of DPP.

No wonder the DPP wanted them back....shows his poor judgement in continuing.

408
2 years ago

DPP don't give a fuck about getting the documents back, ..... Where did you get that from ????
...or being shown to have poor judgement.
The police have been leaking information to damage the prosecution and the witness since Lehrmann was first charged.
The DPP want to find out who.

paulybronco
2 years ago

Does this help.....

Documents obtained by news.com.au outline how the disclosure infuriated the Director of Public Prosecutions Shane Drumgold who demanded the police retrieve the information urgently.

The AFP material and the way the case proceeded to raise serious questions about the DPP’s judgment … his aim seemed to be to protect Higgins from further public scrutiny, which invariably includes criticism. Drumgold’s focus on the bravery of Higgins, when there has been no finding of guilt, is especially troubling. Higgins’s allegation remains just that – an allegation.’
Albrechtsen suggests that rather than seeking to protect Higgins from public scrutiny, Drumgold, ‘…should now be much more concerned about the way in which this untested allegation was initially and subsequently publicised, the media circus around it and its impact on whether Lehrmann could receive a fair trial. If Drumgold is not now looking seriously at contempt charges for those involved, we should ask more probing questions of the DPP’s judgment.’