The start of no deals...

2/2
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    10 months
    Quoting fatbat on 22 Oct 2021 09:23 PMedited: 22 Oct 2021 09:33 PM

    Pros and cons to everything. 


    Lots of buyers like certainty and transparency.  When you go on a website for almost anything, or walk into a supermarket, the price is there for everyone to see and know, and one person doesn’t get a better deal than another.

    Certainty and transparency should hopefully also apply to whatever extras, fees and costs which are advertised differently in different states/territories and sometimes hidden by some
    dealers which hasn’t endeared the industry to some 

    Sorry FB with this model its really bordering on Restrictive Trade Practices act or even the anti monopoly laws.....(
    The Competition and Consumer Act prohibits the acquisition of shares or assets if that acquisition would have the effect or likely effect, of substantially lessening competition in any market for goods or services in Australia.)
    What used to happen was Mercedes/Mazda/ etc would be imported into Australia and then a margin added to the landed cost...eg $12000 plus $3000 profit to the importer total cost to dealer $15000. The importer would discuss RRP (Recomended retail price) and that was the maximum you could sell the car for, before any accessories etc. In this example lets say RRP is $20000...or $5000 profit at full price. Very rarely can you sell a car at RRP...very rare because they customer could wonder down the street and say dealer 1 quoted me $20000 you have my business if you can better it..presto deal done @ $19500 and a set of mats. Next please. Under this new arangement the importer, Mercedes themselves are now going to increase their profit margin on the import side to $5000 but still keeping the RRP @ $20000 and the car owes the dealer $17000 with zero wriggle room due to fixed price arrangements. Even at full price the dealer makes less for exactly the same work/risk/investment. The only way the dealer is going to make any extra from the deal is thru the trade in.....they will try and undervalue your trade in the hope of wholesaling it off for a gain.
    Honda has tried this idea......50% reduction of units sold since implementation. 
    I have read that dealers are pursuing legal action against Mercedes. 

  • fatbat
    fatbat
    10 months
    My opinion is just that and I acknowledge there are pros and cons to everything 

    Any assessment of honda needs to consider that honda was in a downturn in Australia anyway. And all new cars have declined thanks to Covid, supply chains and silicone chip shortages. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    10 months
    Quoting fatbat on 23 Oct 2021 04:13 AM

    My opinion is just that and I acknowledge there are pros and cons to everything 


    Any assessment of honda needs to consider that honda was in a downturn in Australia anyway. And all new cars have declined thanks to Covid, supply chains and silicone chip shortages. 

    But thats no correct either...
    Australia is on track to return to a million-plus new-car market after May became the second month of 2021 to register more than 100,000 vehicle sales
    The latest official industry figures confirmed 100,809 vehicle registrations last month, the best May result since 2017 when 102,901 cars were sold.
    With 456,894 sales so far in 2021 and average monthly sales of 91,379, the market has the potential to reach 1.1 million units by the end of the year.
    The effects of the latest lockdown in Victoria won’t be known until June’s results, as the restrictions introduced at the end of May didn’t prevent the state from being the second biggest for sales. 

    Top 10 models - May 2021
    TOYOTA HILUX - 4402 - up 25%
    FORD RANGER - 4254 - up 60%
    TOYOTA RAV4 - 4014 - up 71%
    ISUZU D-MAX - 3058 - up 202%
    TOYOTA LANDCRUISER - 2795 - up 122%
    MAZDA CX-5 - 2768 - up 87%
    MITSUBISHI TRITON - 2317 - up 168%
    TOYOTA PRADO - 2214 - up 63%
    TOYOTA COROLLA - 2190 - up 35%
    HYUNDAI i30 - 2127 - up 79%

    Top 10 models - year to date 2021
    TOYOTA HILUX - 22,664 - up 43%
    FORD RANGER - 19,278 - up 47%
    TOYOTA RAV4 - 17,858 - up 38%
    MAZDA CX-5 - 12,272 - up 60%
    TOYOTA COROLLA - 11,644 - up 11%
    MITSUBISHI TRITON - 10,936 - up 59%
    HYUNDAI i30 - 10,808 - up 36%
    ISUZU D-MAX - 10,638 - up 114%
    TOYOTA LANDCRUISER - 10,459 - up 96%
    KIA CERATO - 8045 - up 16%
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    10 months
    Quoting fatbat on 23 Oct 2021 04:13 AM

    My opinion is just that and I acknowledge there are pros and cons to everything 


    Any assessment of honda needs to consider that honda was in a downturn in Australia anyway. And all new cars have declined thanks to Covid, supply chains and silicone chip shortages. 

    Quoting paulybronco on 23 Oct 2021 06:19 AM

    But thats no correct either...

    Australia is on track to return to a million-plus new-car market after May became the second month of 2021 to register more than 100,000 vehicle sales
    The latest official industry figures confirmed 100,809 vehicle registrations last month, the best May result since 2017 when 102,901 cars were sold.
    With 456,894 sales so far in 2021 and average monthly sales of 91,379, the market has the potential to reach 1.1 million units by the end of the year.
    The effects of the latest lockdown in Victoria won’t be known until June’s results, as the restrictions introduced at the end of May didn’t prevent the state from being the second biggest for sales. 

    Top 10 models - May 2021
    TOYOTA HILUX - 4402 - up 25%
    FORD RANGER - 4254 - up 60%
    TOYOTA RAV4 - 4014 - up 71%
    ISUZU D-MAX - 3058 - up 202%
    TOYOTA LANDCRUISER - 2795 - up 122%
    MAZDA CX-5 - 2768 - up 87%
    MITSUBISHI TRITON - 2317 - up 168%
    TOYOTA PRADO - 2214 - up 63%
    TOYOTA COROLLA - 2190 - up 35%
    HYUNDAI i30 - 2127 - up 79%

    Top 10 models - year to date 2021
    TOYOTA HILUX - 22,664 - up 43%
    FORD RANGER - 19,278 - up 47%
    TOYOTA RAV4 - 17,858 - up 38%
    MAZDA CX-5 - 12,272 - up 60%
    TOYOTA COROLLA - 11,644 - up 11%
    MITSUBISHI TRITON - 10,936 - up 59%
    HYUNDAI i30 - 10,808 - up 36%
    ISUZU D-MAX - 10,638 - up 114%
    TOYOTA LANDCRUISER - 10,459 - up 96%
    KIA CERATO - 8045 - up 16%


    Dunno how your data shows I’m “ no correct”. 

    Your quote/data shows vehicle sales in Australia are SET TO RETURN TO SALES from years gone by and compares back to four years ago (2017). So there was a downturn and I can cite many stories and show data to substantiate it but didn’t know it would be necessary given most people already aware. Just like I could show data about Honda’s decline over the previous times BEFORE Honda’s change to fixed price sales. 


    This story shows Honda sales were in significant decline in 2020 (down 33.8%) before their fixed pricing change 


    This story relates to Honda in 2019 and says “Honda Motor Co. said Tuesday its group net profit fell 25.3 percent to ¥455.75 billion ($4.24 billion) in the business year ended in March as the coronavirus pandemic dented global demand and forced a partial halt in production”. 

    The point I’m making is that Honda’s sales decline isn’t just about it’s fixed price change. There are other reasons obviously contributing and have been for some time now. And it’s decline no doubt contributes to it trying different strategies to remain competitive 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    10 months
    Quoting fatbat on 23 Oct 2021 04:13 AM

    My opinion is just that and I acknowledge there are pros and cons to everything 


    Any assessment of honda needs to consider that honda was in a downturn in Australia anyway. And all new cars have declined thanks to Covid, supply chains and silicone chip shortages. 

    Quoting paulybronco on 23 Oct 2021 06:19 AM

    But thats no correct either...

    Australia is on track to return to a million-plus new-car market after May became the second month of 2021 to register more than 100,000 vehicle sales
    The latest official industry figures confirmed 100,809 vehicle registrations last month, the best May result since 2017 when 102,901 cars were sold.
    With 456,894 sales so far in 2021 and average monthly sales of 91,379, the market has the potential to reach 1.1 million units by the end of the year.
    The effects of the latest lockdown in Victoria won’t be known until June’s results, as the restrictions introduced at the end of May didn’t prevent the state from being the second biggest for sales. 

    Top 10 models - May 2021
    TOYOTA HILUX - 4402 - up 25%
    FORD RANGER - 4254 - up 60%
    TOYOTA RAV4 - 4014 - up 71%
    ISUZU D-MAX - 3058 - up 202%
    TOYOTA LANDCRUISER - 2795 - up 122%
    MAZDA CX-5 - 2768 - up 87%
    MITSUBISHI TRITON - 2317 - up 168%
    TOYOTA PRADO - 2214 - up 63%
    TOYOTA COROLLA - 2190 - up 35%
    HYUNDAI i30 - 2127 - up 79%

    Top 10 models - year to date 2021
    TOYOTA HILUX - 22,664 - up 43%
    FORD RANGER - 19,278 - up 47%
    TOYOTA RAV4 - 17,858 - up 38%
    MAZDA CX-5 - 12,272 - up 60%
    TOYOTA COROLLA - 11,644 - up 11%
    MITSUBISHI TRITON - 10,936 - up 59%
    HYUNDAI i30 - 10,808 - up 36%
    ISUZU D-MAX - 10,638 - up 114%
    TOYOTA LANDCRUISER - 10,459 - up 96%
    KIA CERATO - 8045 - up 16%

    Quoting fatbat on 23 Oct 2021 06:55 AMedited: 23 Oct 2021 07:05 AM


    Dunno how your data shows I’m “ no correct”. 

    Your quote/data shows vehicle sales in Australia are SET TO RETURN TO SALES from years gone by and compares back to four years ago (2017). So there was a downturn and I can cite many stories and show data to substantiate it but didn’t know it would be necessary given most people already aware. Just like I could show data about Honda’s decline over the previous times BEFORE Honda’s change to fixed price sales. 


    This story shows Honda sales were in significant decline in 2020 (down 33.8%) before their fixed pricing change 


    This story relates to Honda in 2019 and says “Honda Motor Co. said Tuesday its group net profit fell 25.3 percent to ¥455.75 billion ($4.24 billion) in the business year ended in March as the coronavirus pandemic dented global demand and forced a partial halt in production”. 

    The point I’m making is that Honda’s sales decline isn’t just about it’s fixed price change. There are other reasons obviously contributing and have been for some time now. And it’s decline no doubt contributes to it trying different strategies to remain competitive 

    FB Can i just refresh your memory of your quote......" And all new cars have declined thanks to Covid, supply chains and silicone chip shortages. 
    In my humble submission the use of the word "Up" in the supplied data indicates an increase...not as you infer a decline thanks to Covid.

  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    5 months
    Quoting paulybronco on 18 Oct 2021 09:21 AM

    Seems as though the age of "Doing a deal" has been stumped by Mercedes. They are moving to a fixed price take it or fuck off approach to discounting. Mark my words this is the start of a snowball in the industry in Australia. New car salesman are going to be a dying breed, they will employ order takers not sales people. 

    Well seems like Mercedes like Honda have shot themselves in the foot with this "No deals" fixed pricing. They have hit a 10yr low in sales selling 55% fewer cars than since the new sales pricing model. The industry has risen 1.6% during the same period. Both manufacturers are claiming factory delays etc and fail to recognise the model as being partly to blame....
    Rumour is that a certain motorcycle brand is close to following the same structure here in Australia......now that will be interesting! 
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 months
    Has anyone got a deal on a new Harley lately? I mean bog stock off the floor, not something the dealer fitted a pipe to so it don't sound like a wheezing sewer pump.
  • GGUser260
    GGUser260
    5 months
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 11 Mar 2022 09:56 PM

    Has anyone got a deal on a new Harley lately? I mean bog stock off the floor, not something the dealer fitted a pipe to so it don't sound like a wheezing sewer pump.

    No deals on the new wheezing sewer pumps sounds like a good reason to love the bike you're with?
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 months
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 11 Mar 2022 09:56 PM

    Has anyone got a deal on a new Harley lately? I mean bog stock off the floor, not something the dealer fitted a pipe to so it don't sound like a wheezing sewer pump.

    Quoting GGUser260 on 11 Mar 2022 11:45 PM

    No deals on the new wheezing sewer pumps sounds like a good reason to love the bike you're with?

    was trying for a bit of humour but my point is I haven't heard of anyone getting under RRP on a stocker, no mods, they tend to make it sound like they are doing you a favour if you spend on a bunch of accessories before delivery but there don't seem to be any discounts on RRP on offer.
  • Daffy
    Daffy
    5 months
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 11 Mar 2022 09:56 PM

    Has anyone got a deal on a new Harley lately? I mean bog stock off the floor, not something the dealer fitted a pipe to so it don't sound like a wheezing sewer pump.

    I got a great deal on a demo Heritage Classic off the floor from Morgan and Wacker Melbourne. They shipped the bike to me in SA and shipped my trade in back   They sold my trade in less than a week. About $6000 cheaper changeover than Peter stevens maybe we could do blah blah. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    5 months
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 11 Mar 2022 09:56 PM

    Has anyone got a deal on a new Harley lately? I mean bog stock off the floor, not something the dealer fitted a pipe to so it don't sound like a wheezing sewer pump.

    Quoting Daffy on 13 Mar 2022 11:37 PM

    I got a great deal on a demo Heritage Classic off the floor from Morgan and Wacker Melbourne. They shipped the bike to me in SA and shipped my trade in back   They sold my trade in less than a week. About $6000 cheaper changeover than Peter stevens maybe we could do blah blah. 

    Daffy its a little different with demo bikes as the dealer gets a kickback/incentive from the importer to supply a demo bike. That demo bike is then allowed to be "regoed" and counted in the dealers total numbers for the month/quarter. If the dealer achieves the target they get a retrospective bonus for each bike sold. We were able to sell you a brand new car at up to $10k LESS than we were paying for it because it meant we had reached target and the importer was about to give us $500 x 100 cars =$50k.....so still able to close the month with a $40k cheque from the importer. The margins are not the same in the bikes but the same structure remains. 
  • Daffy
    Daffy
    5 months
    I understand how it works mate. I was in the car game for 35 years. Worked the demo thing lots. The difference here is that I was quite happy for PS to demo the bike they had on the floor but they weren't interested and wouldn't give a cent off. Their trade in price was a huge factor. They said they might give me $14000 for my softail deluxe but when I took it to them they wouldn't even walk outside to look at it. Morgan and Walker were $18000 trade in and over two grand discount. All included freight both ways. Big difference. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    5 months
    whos " Morgan and Walker"......lol
  • GGUser260
    GGUser260
    5 months
    Quoting paulybronco on 20 Mar 2022 04:40 AM

    whos " Morgan and Walker"......lol

    Don't be a Wacker PB...
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    5 months
    Quoting paulybronco on 20 Mar 2022 04:40 AM

    whos " Morgan and Walker"......lol

    Quoting GGUser260 on 20 Mar 2022 05:52 AM

    Don't be a Wacker PB...

    Ha Ha...you got me Captain Morgan!
  • Daffy
    Daffy
    5 months
    Quoting Daffy on 20 Mar 2022 01:37 AM

    I understand how it works mate. I was in the car game for 35 years. Worked the demo thing lots. The difference here is that I was quite happy for PS to demo the bike they had on the floor but they weren't interested and wouldn't give a cent off. Their trade in price was a huge factor. They said they might give me $14000 for my softail deluxe but when I took it to them they wouldn't even walk outside to look at it. Morgan and Walker were $18000 trade in and over two grand discount. All included freight both ways. Big difference. 

    Oops Wacker
  • wombat457
    wombat457
    14 days ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 18 Oct 2021 09:21 AM

    Seems as though the age of "Doing a deal" has been stumped by Mercedes. They are moving to a fixed price take it or fuck off approach to discounting. Mark my words this is the start of a snowball in the industry in Australia. New car salesman are going to be a dying breed, they will employ order takers not sales people. 

    I know this is a bit behind BUT stealerships here have been that way for years.  About 5 months ago I went to a local stealership (with cash) to buy a 2019 Nissan Rogue (not sure what they are called back in Oz).  Anyway, walked in and talked to the manager (head thief) he told me the price in addition to the 5 or 6000 of added BS fee's.  I then asked how much for cash and he gave me the same figure.  

    I turned around and started to walk out and he called after me saying hey lets talk about this - I said, already have, you had your chance and you stuck to your original price - guess you don't want any commission.  Got a similar response when I tried to buy a car (cash) when I first got here in 2007 - a take it or leave it - I left it then as well.  Thy call that a "No Haggle" deal as if they were doing the buyer some huge favor.  Oh well, I guess no one said you had to be smart to sell cars right.

    As for Mercedes though - MBUSA has a adopted a if you want it bad enough you'll you'll pay what we demand attitude, then again that's the yank business attitude anyway.  As you said, sooner or later there is only going to be Order Takers - hell, you can already buy a car 100% on line here as it is.  
2/2