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Hot and bothered

  • zappa916
    zappa916
    1 month
    Greetings, 
    I'm in a situation where I have to take the 07 heritage softail to work for commute. I live in the inner city melbourne area and my journey consists of a lot of stop \ start bumper to bumper traffic. I estimate my average speed would be not much more than 10kmh.  7 km trip - 35 minutes. 
    So things are getting very hot under the seat and both thighs uncomfortably warm. 

    I'm looking at cost effective ways to dissipate some of that heat, to increase comfort and engine longevity. 
    Ive researched oil coolers, oil coolers + fans, and jim cooling fans but not sure any of that would offer best bang for buck. Especially as I'm looking in excess of $1500. 

    I'm thinking of getting a couple of computer server cabinet fans, cobbled up to see whether that offers any benefit before I splash $$$ on something permanent. 
    Unless there are some other options out there which I'm willing to entertain?


  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 month
    Does your bike have eitms...this deactivates the rear pot at idle. 
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    1 month
    You can tune a lot of heat out of them, they are pretty lean stock, but your description of the ride definitely puts it under pressure heat wise, I would still start with the tune though.
  • Retroman
    Retroman
    1 month
    What type of tuning device does it have (if any?).

    I do come across bikes as old as that are still 100% bone stock with no stage 1 tune often the only change is noisy slip on mufflers.

    Best bang for the bucks "tuning" wise are XiED wires that go into the O2 sensor wires, plug and play. Find them on www.Nightrider.com

    Best bang for the bucks oil cooler wise is the heatsink type that push over the stock OEM oil filter (that's what I have used since 2008). They can be hard to find now tho' as the maker departed this earth. Called an "oil filter cooler collar".

    Any plumbed in oil cooler system is way dearer, and at low speeds don't flow enough air. Heatsink type better there.
  • B0nes
    B0nes
    1 month
    Haven't tested yet due to all the bloody rain and now cleaning up from the Cyclone but I've just added these to the Night Train. Should see a drop in oil temp.


    1000_1024x1024-3322097135.jpg
    Jagg oil cooler
    Harley-Davidon-Oil-Filters.png
    Flo oil filter
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    1 month
    Cooler will do what coolers do and the the flow filter should give the same results as the heat sink sleeve, be interested to see how much of a drop in oil temp you get in different situations. 
  • zappa916
    zappa916
    1 month
    Quoting paulybronco on 11 Mar 2025 09:11 AM

    Does your bike have eitms...this deactivates the rear pot at idle. 

    I've read some reports it has and needs to be activated, other reports say it doesnt have it.  However, EITMS from what I read kicks off at 15kmh,  so on average I doubt it would make much off a difference. 


  • zappa916
    zappa916
    1 month
    Quoting Retroman on 11 Mar 2025 12:27 PMedited: 11 Mar 2025 12:35 PM

    What type of tuning device does it have (if any?).


    I do come across bikes as old as that are still 100% bone stock with no stage 1 tune often the only change is noisy slip on mufflers.

    Best bang for the bucks "tuning" wise are XiED wires that go into the O2 sensor wires, plug and play. Find them on www.Nightrider.com

    Best bang for the bucks oil cooler wise is the heatsink type that push over the stock OEM oil filter (that's what I have used since 2008). They can be hard to find now tho' as the maker departed this earth. Called an "oil filter cooler collar".

    Any plumbed in oil cooler system is way dearer, and at low speeds don't flow enough air. Heatsink type better there.

    it's been tuned to run a little rich and have confirmed it with an oxygen sensor and reading the plugs. 
    I'll check out the Xied. 

    B0nesB0nes2 days ago
    Haven't tested yet due to all the bloody rain and now cleaning up from the Cyclone but I've just added these to the Night Train. Should see a drop in oil temp.

    I'll check it out. 

    Just for reference, both the front and read heads read 165degC and the temp in the oil around 95-100 degC when i stop and park. 
    I have a fan in the garage at home where i kick it on for 30 minutes to cool it right down. No such luxury at work where i park on the street. 
    Im trying to find a couple of high velocity, brushless  12v fans that are waterproof with some IP rating to jemmy rig up and see whether i can establish a direction. I'd like to collate data as best i can, before throwing things at it. 

  • Hilly
    Hilly
    1 month
    "it's been tuned to run a little rich and have confirmed it with an oxygen sensor and reading the plugs. 
    I'll check out the Xied."

    Just trying to help here, if it has been tuned properly you won't need xieds, a few questions ....
    How did you read the plugs at the problem area? What tuning device/software are you using? 
    How was the 02 data collected that confirms it's "running a little richer"? 
    Lastly, did you perform all this or was it done by a shop or the like?


  • zappa916
    zappa916
    1 month
    All done by the shop. They plugged in a scanner and a probe up the tail pipe. They asked me a few questions about how it runs and that said we could put another map but no guarantees it will bring the temp down much.thry didt even mention oil coolers or fans.
    I removed the plugs and read them as running rich.cheers.
  • Retroman
    Retroman
    1 month
    I do a fair bit of "amateur" tuning from home. I am retired now and it keeps me busy.

    I had and have been doing it for mates and contacts since 2008.

    Some of the Perth Indy shops send bikes and different builds to me so I have built up some clues over the times.

    In 2007 before I was conversant with laptop tuning, I used to use those XiED wires to get the fuel mixture just a tad richer on otherwise stock bikes with high flow air intake and noisy exhausts. For the scenario they worked well enough, around $100 at the time.
    They did not change ignition curve or rev limiter settings, only Air Fuel ratio. Slightly richer=slightly cooler.

    Have you had this 2007 from new ? Sorry if I have missed that. It is possible (but rare now) that it is 100% factory stock tuning wise.

    Just last year I retuned a 2008 Crossbones that had stock air intake and V&H and when it arrived I could tell/smell it was running hot.
    One owner from new, the guy had other bikes also. This was his "cool cruiser" so the K's were low for the age of the bike.
    First step a K&N air intake , just a drop in K&N element with the flapper valve removed in the intake throat. Low cost
    A stage 1 cal into it from original SERT Screamin Eagle race tuner and the bike was transformed, running faster and cooler and with better fuel consumption.
    Guy said " fuck I should have done that years ago !"

    There have been so many tuning options since 2007 that could have been done to the bike if it is multi owner. Some of that, Power Commander PC3 for example is unpluggable, especially easy on any Softail. Then you are back to 2007 factory lean ECM settings.

    Were you in Perth WA then I would do it for you, can't help east sorry, only advice

    From your description it sounds like the shop you refer to are using Maximus tuner system.
    Perth HD dealers and other independent use that system now.
    You give them a wodge of wonga and they flash tune the bike and hand you a USB stick ?
    How easy are they to lose ?? AND there's fuggall you can do yourself. Cheeky if you ask me.
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    1 month
    What tuning device did they use or you are currently using? Is it a piggy back system that is still on the bike or was it a flash tuner that reprograms the ECM? 
    It would help greatly to know what's been done and with what, the sniffer up the pipe indicates they did not use the narrow bands fitted to your bike and did not replace them with widebands for data collection either, your ECM is capable of being tuned for both cylinders independently, magnificent system compared to old.
    Like Retro and quite a few others on here I've got a bit of experience home tuning Harleys, both my own and friends bikes, I do it by gathering data on the road and  using that data to create a new tune using various software and that process is repeated until the tune is stable, it is a bit more involved than that but that's the basics.
    My first fuel injected model was a 2006 wideglide that I brought new so I know what you have and I changed that bike around cam and compression wise multiple times and tuned it to suit, not as good as a dyno professional but way better than most imagine.
    You can cool them down a hell of a lot with a good tune, I lived north Queensland then so it was plenty hot enough for heat problems, I've tuned stock Harleys for a few blokes that just had aftermarket pipes and air filters and they were happy camper's, less heat, smoother running, crisper throttle, good fuel economy when cruising is the usual feedback. I'm not writing any of this to blow my trumpet, I'm not any kind of guru, just trying to give you a bit of a heads up on what can be done.
    But, as I said in an earlier reply the riding conditions you are describing, 7-10 kmh for 35 minutes is going to tax it's ability to cool, a heat sink oil filter and fans would have to help there a bit, I would still love to know everything about the tune though because getting that right is the base line to start from.
    There are many good dyno tuners around country, if you give us the closest city to you someone will be able to point you in the right direction if you would like to go down that track, if you have a flash tuner you could learn do do it yourself but it is a learning curve. Hope that's of some help and doesn't chase you away. 


  • zappa916
    zappa916
    1 month
    Im in inner Melbourne, so if anyone knows a hobbyist or even a good shop, I'd like to hear it. It nearly always pays to get a second opinion on how my bike was tuned and what shape it's in. It's on the high side of 125,000k so while it doesnt burn any oil, blow smoke or has any trouble starting hot or cold, id like an assessment of the engine and a baseline plotted. 

    It's getting taxed very heavily on this commute and Im just praying for some colder weather to give it some reprieve. I can almost live with the heat on the thighs but when im smelling hot oil vapours and the airfilter is hot enough to fry an egg on, I dont think it'll go for much longer. 
    Eventually I'd like to get into custom tuning and play with maps \ tunes but right now I need to solve this issue. 
    cheers for the replies. 

  • Hilly
    Hilly
    1 month
    Give this bloke a call
    Screenshot_20250314-160953.png
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    1 month
    Buy a Vespa or step through for commuting.  Even a Sporty would have a hard time in those conditions.
  • speedzter
    speedzter
    1 month
    A decent tune is obviously needed, but not always enough .
    The absolute best thing to cool one of these things is a cooling fan.
    I setup my own cooling fan, and it simply just works at lowering cylinder head temps'.
    The way it's setup, it also blows some air through the vertical oil cooler when riding slow .

    The unexpected thing is it actually helps with cooling at highway speeds.
    I use a digital temp gauge reading off the rear cylinder head .

    Also an oil cooler does just that , it cools the oil ( a good thing !).
    It has fairly small affect on cylinder head temperature in the Twin Cam engine.
    Way back when designing the Twin Cam, they had had big problems with oil temperatures .
    The answer was to restrict oil flow to the top end .

     

    IMG_20190311_165940.jpg
    IMG_20190311_165804_1.jpg
  • zappa916
    zappa916
    1 month
    Quoting speedzter on 15 Mar 2025 12:16 AMedited: 15 Mar 2025 12:35 AM

    A decent tune is obviously needed, but not always enough .
    The absolute best thing to cool one of these things is a cooling fan.
    I setup my own cooling fan, and it simply just works at lowering cylinder head temps'.
    The way it's setup, it also blows some air through the vertical oil cooler when riding slow .

    The unexpected thing is it actually helps with cooling at highway speeds.
    I use a digital temp gauge reading off the rear cylinder head .

    Also an oil cooler does just that , it cools the oil ( a good thing !).
    It has fairly small affect on cylinder head temperature in the Twin Cam engine.
    Way back when designing the Twin Cam, they had had big problems with oil temperatures .
    The answer was to restrict oil flow to the top end .

     

    IMG_20190311_165940.jpg
    IMG_20190311_165804_1.jpg
    Twin 6inch fans is what im looking at fitted to a 3D printed cradle mounted to the horn bolt. Oil cooler will come later but as you said, and I also agree,  it will have minimal effect on the head temps. 

    My previous commute was with a liquid cooled sports bike and the fans on that thing rang constantly, keeping the temps at 90degC. Im going to make them removeable,  so in winter I could quickly remove them and store them in the saddle bag. 
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