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Old School Sporty help!!

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  • obisteve
    obisteve
    2 months
    Quoting Petenaylor on 05 Sep 2024 11:40 AM

    Oh . Obisteve , did you probe www. as to how an 86 Sporty has a five speed ? Got me fucked 

    Well I don't reckon it will, but gotta admit I've not tried it.  I've had to rebuild my 4 speed cluster I think 5 times in its life, so moderately familiar with it. An extra gear and shifter fork on each shaft won't fit without narrowing the gears, and the shafts are a greater diameter, when the factory went from 4 to 5 the crankcases ended up about 13mm wider, with the RHS case made bigger, but both cases extensively changed. The 5 speed motors (91 to I think 96, but maybe until the rubbermounts) dont fit the 4 speed RHS front engine mount but thats just a matter of getting a 91+ engine mount. (I'm running 91-96 forward controls so learned this the hard way) But from what I can make out from your pics, it looks like 4 speed tappet blocks.
    A close pic of a tappet block and one of the primary case showing the inspection caps would be informative, with the 2 into 1 pipes and the breather oil filter its hard to get a good look at the tappet blocks.
    Was it a 2nd hand USA import? In 91 when the 5 speed was introduced, there was some muttering about the move away from standard Evo lifters, and running the lifters directly in the crank case casting, and that the lifters weren't as well supported as previously and the aftermarket jumped in with a hybrid version. You took your new 5 speed motor, bought a new set of cases from S&S and I think maybe Sputhe briefly but could be wrong on that, and reassembled, 5 speed motor and gearbox, aftermarket cases with the 4 speed style lifters and tappet blocks.
    Yeah, I don't reckon anyone in Oz did that , reckon even in the States where there is more respect for fast Sporties they would have been a slow seller.
    But, there is a set of those S&S cases currently for sale on eBay out of San Diego for $650 US.
    A close up pic of the tappet blocks and one of the primary case should show if it's that sort of hybrid.
    If it's not that, I just dunno what you've got. As Hilly said, have you pulled the primary apart? The alternator moved from the back of the clutch basket to the crank end with the 4 to 5 change over.
    And with the S&S, is your current SE carb a flange mount or a spigot style rubber mount? Both were made. If it's a spigot style, the chinese clone S&S sellers also sell an adapter with an S&S style flange on one end and a standard HD style rubber mount on the other. Selling for about $50 last time I looked on eBay and probably won't cause your bike to rot.
    Now this is probably more than most people want to know about old Sporties, but I love them so tuff.🙄
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    2 months
    From all I've read it's a physical impossibility to put five speed internals into an 86, so, that's why I asked where the alternator is.
  • obisteve
    obisteve
    2 months
    Yeah, me too.
  • Petenaylor
    Petenaylor
    2 months
    Will take some pics . Bike is at mates place . If it is the original engine , should its numbers match with some vin number? Or is that irrelevant 
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    2 months
    Engine number should be a shorter version of your VIN on an 86, I couldn't remember exactly how it's shorter but I looked it up......
    Beginning in 1981, Harley started using a 17 digit VIN number on the frame and an abbreviated VIN on the engine case. As always, the legal title must match the VIN number on the frame. If the title and frame VIN reads 1HD1ELK12BZ123456 , the engine case number should read something like ELKB123456 .
    Also, 1986 sporties were either an 883 or 1100, there most likely is a 1200 or bigger kit for them but I don't know for sure, Steve might though.
  • obisteve
    obisteve
    2 months
    You don't need a kit, up until 1996 I think, there's enough meat in the steel liner to just bore them out to 1200.
    Wiseco made pistons with a dished piston crown so you can just do it that way without ending up with too high a compression ratio. If using HD 1200 pistons, it's best to relieve around the edge of the combustion chamber to drop the CR.
    You end up with a lighter motor too. It does take quite a few runs through with a boring bar to get there. The 1200 heads have bigger valves, but the bore and Wiseco pistons do make an interesting improvement, but they do tend to slap a bit as they wear.
    Dunno anything about VIN and engine numbers, mine is the only Harley I've ever bought, bought new.
  • Benno
    Benno
    2 months
    Quoting obisteve on 06 Sep 2024 04:51 AMedited: 06 Sep 2024 04:56 AM

    You don't need a kit, up until 1996 I think, there's enough meat in the steel liner to just bore them out to 1200.

    Wiseco made pistons with a dished piston crown so you can just do it that way without ending up with too high a compression ratio. If using HD 1200 pistons, it's best to relieve around the edge of the combustion chamber to drop the CR.
    You end up with a lighter motor too. It does take quite a few runs through with a boring bar to get there. The 1200 heads have bigger valves, but the bore and Wiseco pistons do make an interesting improvement, but they do tend to slap a bit as they wear.
    Dunno anything about VIN and engine numbers, mine is the only Harley I've ever bought, bought new.

    My first HD was an 1986 883 sportster, after a couple of years I put the Wiseco pistons Obi is talking about in it, from memory they were under $300 for a set, the shop that bored it out told me they had to do about 30 cuts to get the bores to size, lol. It went like a scolded cat after the upgrade, changed the Mikuni jets, burnt the standard clutch out pretty quickly too. The biggest concern was the primary output bearing failing and the stator making contact with the magnets, I got mine before it detonated, I heard it,  but I saw another one that didn't get it in time, destroyed everything in the primary, he never got it going again I believe. HD moved the stator a couple of years later, Pete keep a close ear out for any noises in there.
  • Petenaylor
    Petenaylor
    2 months
    Hilly , 
    My numbers are exactly as you described. Hopefully ignition kit will be here today . Will take some pics to determine why I have a 5 speed lol 
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    2 months
    Where is daddyracer when you need him lol, he would know if there were any aberrations from the factory, hope you get it going Pete.
  • obisteve
    obisteve
    2 months
    Is it currently running Pete?
    If it is, how far will it go from putting in new plugs until they're too fouled to run?
    If its not, and it's firing back through an open exhaust valve and maybe an open inlet valve, doing what you called key banging, have you got the timing 180° out? That's a simple fix, and you generally only do it once.
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