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Dyna Wide Glide 2016 slow to crank when cold

  • TommyBlackdog
    TommyBlackdog
    2 months
    When starting cold my dyna wide glide cranks really slowly (like its dragging or pulling heaps of current) then eventually starts. The clock on the speedo even resets itself.
    It started not long after new then has slowly gotten worse.
    In the process of trouble shooting I have checked and cleaned the ground and positive leads multiple times. I have replaced the battery, starter, both positive and negative leads. Still scratching my head as to what it could be.
    Has anyone any ideas?

  • Hilly
    Hilly
    2 months
    Tommy could be a couple of things.
    1. One or both of your decomps might not be working, to check, you should be able to hear them click open when you turn the key on, unplug them one at a time to make sure they both work.
    2. Related to the above, post 2016 Harley revised the starting part of the calibration after numerous complaints just like yours so that the solenoids would open when you turn the key on, if your bike has not had the update that could also be the problem.
    Let us know how you go with that.
  • beaglebasher
    beaglebasher
    2 months
    I have often wondered about decompression valves Hilly. Do the twin cams have them ? 
    Specifically the early fuel injected motors . (2002) I have never listened for the click your talking about cos I usually concentrate on the noise the fuel pump is making.
    And I have another question for you. Sometimes when I start the bike it fires up with a really satisfying BARK. The other times it starts up with a whimper. What causes that?
    Sorry for hijacking the thread Tommy.


  • beaglebasher
    beaglebasher
    2 months
    Quoting TommyBlackdog on 08 Jul 2024 01:06 PM

    When starting cold my dyna wide glide cranks really slowly (like its dragging or pulling heaps of current) then eventually starts. The clock on the speedo even resets itself.
    It started not long after new then has slowly gotten worse.
    In the process of trouble shooting I have checked and cleaned the ground and positive leads multiple times. I have replaced the battery, starter, both positive and negative leads. Still scratching my head as to what it could be.
    Has anyone any ideas?

    Have you tried spraying the whole fukin lot with WD40 ?
    That is as far as my electrical knowledge goes but it has helped me out numerous times.
    Have a couple of clean rags to wipe up any overspray and drips.
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    2 months
    Decomps I think 2007 up, thereabouts anyway, Bark...too much WD40, whimper.....not enough WD40 😂
  • Retroman
    Retroman
    2 months
    103 motors had stock OEM decomp valves from 2011/12(ish). Only the 110's had them stock from 2007

    Now don't be surprised at what I will say next.

    If your bike had a "stage 1" reflash from the dealer when new, then VERY often they loaded a calibration where the ACR was "toggled off" in the tune.

    Now I don't know why they would do that, but they did regularly. Ignorance most likely. High staff turnover etc etc

    I also can't fathom why the HD mothership would even have calibrations in the cal file list for 2012 and younger bikes where the ACR was "off" in the tune. You have to go in and physically check in the tuning constants and toggle them "on".

    I got to the stage years ago where I would shut off any bike at the bottom of my drive that was arriving for flashing/reflashing to see if the bikes threw over quickly enough on restart.

    Then I would show/tell the guys to listen to the difference in startup when I first restarted them after the reflash.

    They were and are always amazed at the difference. Click/voom....

    EDIT If you're in Perth WA or close I will "show you how"
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    2 months
    True that, I've seen them toggled off as well, what I said earlier is also fact, seen it with my own two eyes.
  • TommyBlackdog
    TommyBlackdog
    2 months
    Hilly, thanks for this. I thought of the ACRs then dismissed it as it only happens on cold mornings for the first start. After that it starts ok. Now I'm not so sure. I'll check the operation today.
    How can I check if the ACR has been selected off with the super tuner? I'll have to track down a PC as I have a MAC and the super tuner software doesn't like them. 
    I have had the bike since new (late 2016). I first noticed the problem about a year in. On a cold morning it would do this for the first start but wouldn't happen when the weather warmed up. Now 7 years later it has progressed to every 1st start of the day but worse when it's cold. Could this be the ACRs?
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    2 months
    Probably a combination of the ACR's and slow tune degradation, if it was just flashed with a stage 1 cal for pipes and air it's not really tuned but way better than stock, over time the ECM learns and makes adjustments but if it was out a bit to begin with then it can drive itself out further, my bet is it has a 617 cal in it, you need the 621 version. To check you need the program on a laptop, plug bike and laptop together with the dongle, download the cal that's in the dongle, save it and open it, I can't remember the jargon exactly but if you look at the headings I think one is tuning constraints or something like that, Retro will know exactly as he uses it regularly, it's just a switch, to check tune degradation just flash it back in to see if it starts like it used to but if it's a 617 cal you will be better off running it's 621 version.
  • TommyBlackdog
    TommyBlackdog
    2 months
    Thanks again Hilly. Managed to downlaod the software and check my tune with the super tuner. The ACR is enabled according to what I can see.
    I have tried to listen for the ACR solenoid click but the fuel pump runs when I turn the ignition on and I can't hear anything through that.
    Doing a new tune on it may be a good idea or at least flashing the 621.
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    2 months
    Absolutely put the 621 in, you will hear them click above the fuel pump when you turn the key on if they are operational, you ok with the tuning side of it?
  • TommyBlackdog
    TommyBlackdog
    1 month
    Hmmmm my hearing ain't as good as it used to be... :-)
    Also how to identify the ACR connectors? Between the cylinders there are a bunch of connectors squeezed in around the throttle body etc.
    I have done a tune before with riding and recording. Any tips would be appreciated though.
    Where would I get hold of the 621 tune file?

  • Hilly
    Hilly
    1 month
    If you have the latest software it's in the calibration files, if not tell me which 617 cal you have and I can email you the 621 version if you want, yeah that's how I do it, gather data, make new cal, flash it in, gather data repeat until the VE changes are only 5% or less, is it cammed?
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    1 month
    The ACR wires come out of the top of the rocker box, not hard to trace if you start there, might have to lift the tank a little bit but you shouldn't have to take it off, unless they are stuffed that is.
  • Retroman
    Retroman
    1 month
    Cold mornings / battery over 2 years old / ACR's not toggled on.

    The "perfect storm" for a slow/no start combo. I have seen that combo too often over the years.

    Some of the bikes I have reflashed and discovered the ACR toggled off have been like that for up to 12 years FFsake.

    The local Indy shop (for whom I do all the ECM reflashing, have done for many years) prefers to fit S&S easystart cams.

    He also fits a lot of SE204 cams , and I tune all of those with the ACR's on for 2011 and younger
  • TommyBlackdog
    TommyBlackdog
    1 month
    Hi Hilly, I have saved a copy of the current tune and can email it to you if you let me know your email address. I can't seem to work out whether it's the 617 or 621. Maybe you can work it out?
    No cams installed just production ones. Intake and exhaust (vance and hines slip ons with muffler) are the only mods.


  • Hilly
    Hilly
    1 month
    PM'd you email mate
  • TommyBlackdog
    TommyBlackdog
    1 month
    Cheers mate, emailed.
    Do you have any particular process for riding whilst recording for tuning? The only time I did it I made sure I recorded in all gears and at around 3000RPM roughly.
  • Hilly
    Hilly
    1 month
    I do Tom, I have put a lot of hours into both doing it and working out how to do it on the road, too much to type in here with 1 finger, let me check the cal over this evening and I'll get back to you asap, we will need to chat at some point I think, I'll PM you my number once I've had a gander at the cal.
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