Online: Nilo

Good 2 into 1

2/6
  • 408
    408
    1 year ago
    Quoting 408 on 09 Oct 2023 01:48 AM

    And a Lowcat works on a breakout


    Quoting Grease Monkey on 09 Oct 2023 03:24 AM

    I looked on the D&D website, they make a Lowcat to fit mine, the way it's written it seems they consider the Lowcat as an upswept Fatcat, stepped headers and same muffler cores available so it should be sweet for me because the Fatcat would get dragged I reckon and the Lowcat would only touch down if I went down and then it would be the least of my worries.


    👍
  • Jay-Dee
    Jay-Dee
    1 year ago
    Quoting Lushy on 09 Oct 2023 02:35 AMedited: 09 Oct 2023 02:38 AM

    taken from D&D website. Fatcat.Description:

    2006-2017 Harley Dyna 2:1 Fat Cat is a stepped header system at the head is 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" at collector and 2 1/2" where the muffler goes to the header.


    I have never tested one on a V rod.
    As to 408, did your mates who were dissapointed, do the right stuff  re tuning etc? Or did they not like the look? Or were they comparing a 2 into one with 2 into 2? Any hard data to support the dissapointment? 

    Thanks Lushy, I have checked out their website but not for a while.

    I assumed that the step up would be closer to the header flange when I first looked at them but it is definitely 1 3/4" for the majority of the header pipes that I can remember and confirmed by yourself from their website above. It must be right as the pipes turn into the merge collector. I know that the collector is 2 1/2" as is the muffler core from memory. I must admit that I haven't looked at them for a while so when I get a chance I will check them out closely again.

    I wasn't meaning to shit-can them. From everything that I've seen they make good power, overall they're definitely a well made header plus they look cool. But the merge collector is pretty basic and from memory a bit rough internally, I just expected a bit more. Having said that the actual taper and diameter of the merge collector is more likely the effective part. 

    I still think that the slightly modded factory pipes with perforated glass packed cores in the standard mufflers will do a pretty good job for my application on the Breakout, plus be a bit quieter. When/if I ever get it done I will get it tuned with them first, see how it lands and see if Fred thinks it's worthwhile to stick the Bobcat on and give it a go.
  • Jay-Dee
    Jay-Dee
    1 year ago
    Quoting 408 on 09 Oct 2023 01:48 AM

    And a Lowcat works on a breakout


    Quoting Grease Monkey on 09 Oct 2023 03:24 AM

    I looked on the D&D website, they make a Lowcat to fit mine, the way it's written it seems they consider the Lowcat as an upswept Fatcat, stepped headers and same muffler cores available so it should be sweet for me because the Fatcat would get dragged I reckon and the Lowcat would only touch down if I went down and then it would be the least of my worries.

    I think the header pipes are all the same down to the merge, they just have the different mufflers and I would assume maybe mounts depending on the model.
  • 408
    408
    1 year ago
    Quoting Lushy on 09 Oct 2023 02:35 AMedited: 09 Oct 2023 02:38 AM

    taken from D&D website. Fatcat.Description:

    2006-2017 Harley Dyna 2:1 Fat Cat is a stepped header system at the head is 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" at collector and 2 1/2" where the muffler goes to the header.


    I have never tested one on a V rod.
    As to 408, did your mates who were dissapointed, do the right stuff  re tuning etc? Or did they not like the look? Or were they comparing a 2 into one with 2 into 2? Any hard data to support the dissapointment? 

    I started researching parts for my build about 12 years ago. The D&D pipes were a frequent contributor in a lot of well performed builds. It turns out there is a bit of difference between the bagger pipes and the dyna pipes in performance as well but l am happy with the Fatcats on my 110 dyna. 
    I got 130 hp with Reaper 594s but it was a bit soft down low. I was told a boarzilla would have fixed that after initially reading that a boarzilla would be too much pipe for a 110.
    I have Mackie 598s in now with 130 hp but the bottom end is better. 
    I have a mate with a 2016 Breakout who had the 103 pulled out on day 1 and replaced with a 120R.  He had a Freedom 2into1 turnout on it that sounded great and looked like  a sewer outlet. He wouldnt tell me what the numbers were but they were not good. I told him to get a Fatcat and he came back with a Bobcat. A tune gives him 120 hp. 
    Another mate has a 2015 Breakout and he went the S&S 110 drop-in kit. After the break-in and before the final tune it started dribbling oil from the rear exhaust port and after quite a few months off the road and many phone calls and emails between the shop and Rollies and S&S he got a refund. The shop bored his original cylinders out to 107 and had Rams do the heads. After a tune he got 111 hp with the Bobcat. 
    So a 107 and headwork with a Bobcat 20 hp behind my 110 and a 120R with a bit of work and a Bobcat 10 hp behind me.
    I have heard one guy who says of his bike,  ‘ l dont have to be able to beat everybody, just the guys l ride with.’
    My mates are disappointed . Maybe they dont know its the Bobcats, but l do.
     I read on the D&D site a long time ago that the Bobcat was good for engines up to 103 cub in. It is gone now.
  • Lushy
    Lushy
    1 year ago
    I would agree the Boarzilla is too large for a 110. There is many variables, I have tuned many 120R's with stock headers, balance pipe and slip ons, and 123-126 is numbers easily achieved. So to me, ol mate has a bit left somewhere, but who knows where and what sort of dyno machine he used etc. The 107 with head work is the same, what cam/comp/throttle body etc. I am only speaking of stuff I have found myself over the years. I have looked at many harley pipes and can't really think of any which have a better merge collector, most have two pipes shoved into the muffler. D&D may not have the best merge collector in the world, but they are better than most Harley pipes. If you guys want to look at nice collectors, look at Acrapovic stuff or Arrow. They are high quality. Burns do good stuff to, in the US of A
  • 408
    408
    1 year ago
    Quoting Lushy on 10 Oct 2023 07:06 AM

    I would agree the Boarzilla is too large for a 110. There is many variables, I have tuned many 120R's with stock headers, balance pipe and slip ons, and 123-126 is numbers easily achieved. So to me, ol mate has a bit left somewhere, but who knows where and what sort of dyno machine he used etc. The 107 with head work is the same, what cam/comp/throttle body etc. I am only speaking of stuff I have found myself over the years. I have looked at many harley pipes and can't really think of any which have a better merge collector, most have two pipes shoved into the muffler. D&D may not have the best merge collector in the world, but they are better than most Harley pipes. If you guys want to look at nice collectors, look at Acrapovic stuff or Arrow. They are high quality. Burns do good stuff to, in the US of A


    The bikes mentioned were all tuned at different shops but the final numbers have come from the annual Dyno shootout at the HD Dealer in the north of our state. 
    In saying that none of our tuners here tweak ignition timing, just sort the VEs. 
    The 107 has S&S 625s and likely the original throttlebody. 
    Not sure what cams are now in the 120R. 
    I have a HPI 55 throttlebody and run about 205ccp. 
    So not apples to apples but l reckon the pipes account for a fair bit of the difference.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1 year ago
    Bloke I used to ride with put a Bobcat on a CVO 110 that had the HD 117 kit fitted, it was dyno tuned by the local HD shop, he wouldn't say what it made, I rode it, wasn't impressed, that thing would of loved a bigger pipe going by what's been discussed here.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1 year ago
    I see what you mean with the Arrow pipe, nice merge for sure, 2.4k though! 
  • Lushy
    Lushy
    1 year ago
    We're doing a 110 TC at present, we have the benefit of Hoody's head, 263E cams etc, the owner has a Bassani 2:1. I am curious to see what it does. I know from previous the D&D would be a bit better, but it will go alright. The last one I did had Freedom Sharp Curve radius on it, and it did 130hp and 133tq from memory. Same cam and heads. This one has a bigger throttle body as there was no others available. My curiosity will be satisfied in a few days. 🙂
  • Jay-Dee
    Jay-Dee
    1 year ago
    Akrapovic pipes are a work of art and they make power but that comes with a premium price of course. They don't have a great range for Harleys though from what I can see. They do a two into one for V-Rods that are very popular and sound pretty good too, beautiful looking pipe but ugly muffler. They're about twenty one hundred bucks now.

    For interest sake check one out for a Ducati Panigale V4. A lazy 10k for one that exits at the bottom of the engine in front of the rear wheel and an underseat pipe that they use in racing is only a miserly 15k.

    Looking on Easy-R's website the other night I think a D&D is up around the 2k mark now as well.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1 year ago
    This is a better shot of what I have, I changed the angle of the muffler because I kept dragging it in the turns, which is what worries me forking for a Fatcat.
  • 408
    408
    1 year ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 10 Oct 2023 10:16 AM

    This is a better shot of what I have, I changed the angle of the muffler because I kept dragging it in the turns, which is what worries me forking for a Fatcat.


    I reckon that Arrow would look alright on the Slim 😊
    I prefer the look of the Fatcat more than the Lowcat. I reckon the horizontal line fits better with the lines of the bike. The Lowcat is more practical . I have a few scrapes on the underside of the muffler but they are pretty thick.
  • Lushy
    Lushy
    1 year ago
    Jaydee, I wasn't suggesting Acra do 2 into ones for Harleys, but just to look at their collectors, as an example of a good one. Having said that their V Rod pipe works ok with a sane amount of noise. I have done a V Rod we built with 162hp with the Acra pipe. 
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1 year ago
    Acra do this one, a mate has one on his 103 deluxe with 204"s, makes 94HP, given its size that's not bad, it's not exactly quiet though.
  • Jay-Dee
    Jay-Dee
    1 year ago
    Quoting Lushy on 10 Oct 2023 10:21 PM

    Jaydee, I wasn't suggesting Acra do 2 into ones for Harleys, but just to look at their collectors, as an example of a good one. Having said that their V Rod pipe works ok with a sane amount of noise. I have done a V Rod we built with 162hp with the Acra pipe. 

    All good Lushy, I didn't take your post the wrong way. I posted more agreeing with what you were saying about the quality and added a bit regarding their cost, especially the Ducati V4 pipes.

    I actually forgot that they did anything for Harleys except the V-Rod pipe and I'm surprised that they're still currently available. When I looked they do actually have a pretty limited range so I mentioned it and Hilly has posted one up since I was last online.
  • Jay-Dee
    Jay-Dee
    1 year ago
    Quoting speedzter on 11 Oct 2023 12:09 AM

    Speaking of collectors, how's this for a wacky looking design !
    Fuelmoto jackpot-road-track-2-into-1-brushed-stainless-milwaukee-8.html

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 11 Oct 2023 03:38 AM

    I don't find it visually pleasing so to speak 😁

    I think FUGLY would be the appropriate word.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1 year ago
    Clearly different primary tube lengths between the Fatcat and the Lowcat, no black  Fatcats around, maybe a second hand chrome one would be the go, tilt the muffler up a bit and powder coat it, possible?
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