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Warren Mundine labels Voice to Parliament 'waste of millions'

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  • OlChesnut
    OlChesnut
    1 year ago
    Warren Mundine sounds like a smart man.  It's good to see some Indigenous leaders on the "no" side already. You can tell this clown reporter from the ABC doesn't like it.
  • diomac
    diomac
    1 year ago
    Warren Mundine is a shill who swapped camps to line his own pocket when he couldn't get his way on the other side.  We've had hundreds of years of white men deciding the fate and trying to be the voice for First Nations people, and that hasn't exactly worked now has it.

    I don't see Warren Mundine calling for the scrapping of other independent bodies that advise Parliament like the Foreign Review Board or Infrastructure Australia, he is just pissed and rattling his sabre as he was not selected as one of the 800 delegates the community appointed to the council of Ethnic Communities nor was he part of the Uluru statement from the heart delegation in 2017.

    There is ZERO reason not to support a Voice to Parliament, a voice of First Nations people, not white men talking for them and at them.  Parliament still has the authority and the power to listen or not to listen to that voice but at least its the voice of the people being affected.  

    My father-in-law is stolen generation, I have seen the effect of others making choices on his behalf have had on him and I hope no other bugger has to go through the same thing.  Imagine growing up where you are a thing and not a person.



  • bloodog
    bloodog
    1 year ago
    Quoting diomac on 01 Feb 2023 04:58 AM

    Warren Mundine is a shill who swapped camps to line his own pocket when he couldn't get his way on the other side.  We've had hundreds of years of white men deciding the fate and trying to be the voice for First Nations people, and that hasn't exactly worked now has it.

    I don't see Warren Mundine calling for the scrapping of other independent bodies that advise Parliament like the Foreign Review Board or Infrastructure Australia, he is just pissed and rattling his sabre as he was not selected as one of the 800 delegates the community appointed to the council of Ethnic Communities nor was he part of the Uluru statement from the heart delegation in 2017.


    There is ZERO reason not to support a Voice to Parliament, a voice of First Nations people, not white men talking for them and at them.  Parliament still has the authority and the power to listen or not to listen to that voice but at least its the voice of the people being affected.  

    My father-in-law is stolen generation, I have seen the effect of others making choices on his behalf have had on him and I hope no other bugger has to go through the same thing.  Imagine growing up where you are a thing and not a person.



    Alice spring is looking at taking children away from their parents right now today, I know this strikes to the hart of all Australians to hear those words as it would you diomac. The hole Australian / aboriginal voice is a huge subject, but to repeat a quote I just heard is: The money spent by our government in the last 3 years over governing aboriginal affairs would have fixed the crises in Alice Springs. 

  • OlChesnut
    OlChesnut
    1 year ago
    Quoting diomac on 01 Feb 2023 04:58 AM

    Warren Mundine is a shill who swapped camps to line his own pocket when he couldn't get his way on the other side.  We've had hundreds of years of white men deciding the fate and trying to be the voice for First Nations people, and that hasn't exactly worked now has it.

    I don't see Warren Mundine calling for the scrapping of other independent bodies that advise Parliament like the Foreign Review Board or Infrastructure Australia, he is just pissed and rattling his sabre as he was not selected as one of the 800 delegates the community appointed to the council of Ethnic Communities nor was he part of the Uluru statement from the heart delegation in 2017.


    There is ZERO reason not to support a Voice to Parliament, a voice of First Nations people, not white men talking for them and at them.  Parliament still has the authority and the power to listen or not to listen to that voice but at least its the voice of the people being affected.  

    My father-in-law is stolen generation, I have seen the effect of others making choices on his behalf have had on him and I hope no other bugger has to go through the same thing.  Imagine growing up where you are a thing and not a person.



    Look into any ethnic group that makes up Australian society and you'll find a background of suffering. The British sent here as convicts suffered. Europeans that migrated here suffered as refugees from WWII. The Vietnamese suffered from the Vietnam war. Yet all those ethnic groups have managed to succeed in Australian society.

    Aboriginal people also suffered as a result of colonisation. They were treated very badly. Being denied the vote until 1962 is deplorable. That was 60 years ago, but for some reason large numbers of them continue to lack the success of other ethnic groups. The activists will tell you it's all due to white racism. But looking at the success of other immigrants from India, Asia, The Middle East and Europe, this claim just doesn't hold up.

    The lack of success of many in their community is due to a mentality of division and perpetual victimhood. And a lack of personal responsibility. They've been led down this path by career activists, who've given them an excuse for failure. Our problems are all due to white racism so why bother.

    Nonsense terms such as "First Nations" people and this ridiculous Voice to Parliament nonsense do nothing but further divide them from the rest of the Australian community. A combination of perpetual victimhood and division from the rest of the community is a road that leads to failure.
  • diomac
    diomac
    1 year ago
    We won't really address this until there is hope in those communities, hope comes from an education, recognition and then jobs.  The unemployment rate in those communities is shocking so the kids go whats the point going to school there is no job afterwards and than no one bothers to ask what we want so to escape the violence at home they turn to booze on the street to numb the world.

    I have seen this crap first-hand, I am white as they come, just a skippy but I can see cause and effect pretty damn well.  I grew up in FNQ and saw the rampant racism of the joint to the point I refused to let my kids grow up there. They are having all these community meetings in Alice and not inviting the local elders... yep history just repeating.  It's like having a parent-teacher interview and forgetting to ask the parents along and instead letting the deputy make the call.  Futile and will always fail imo.


  • diomac
    diomac
    1 year ago
    Quoting diomac on 01 Feb 2023 04:58 AM

    Warren Mundine is a shill who swapped camps to line his own pocket when he couldn't get his way on the other side.  We've had hundreds of years of white men deciding the fate and trying to be the voice for First Nations people, and that hasn't exactly worked now has it.

    I don't see Warren Mundine calling for the scrapping of other independent bodies that advise Parliament like the Foreign Review Board or Infrastructure Australia, he is just pissed and rattling his sabre as he was not selected as one of the 800 delegates the community appointed to the council of Ethnic Communities nor was he part of the Uluru statement from the heart delegation in 2017.


    There is ZERO reason not to support a Voice to Parliament, a voice of First Nations people, not white men talking for them and at them.  Parliament still has the authority and the power to listen or not to listen to that voice but at least its the voice of the people being affected.  

    My father-in-law is stolen generation, I have seen the effect of others making choices on his behalf have had on him and I hope no other bugger has to go through the same thing.  Imagine growing up where you are a thing and not a person.



    Quoting OlChesnut on 01 Feb 2023 06:19 AM

    Look into any ethnic group that makes up Australian society and you'll find a background of suffering. The British sent here as convicts suffered. Europeans that migrated here suffered as refugees from WWII. The Vietnamese suffered from the Vietnam war. Yet all those ethnic groups have managed to succeed in Australian society.


    Aboriginal people also suffered as a result of colonisation. They were treated very badly. Being denied the vote until 1962 is deplorable. That was 60 years ago, but for some reason large numbers of them continue to lack the success of other ethnic groups. The activists will tell you it's all due to white racism. But looking at the success of other immigrants from India, Asia, The Middle East and Europe, this claim just doesn't hold up.

    The lack of success of many in their community is due to a mentality of division and perpetual victimhood. And a lack of personal responsibility. They've been led down this path by career activists, who've given them an excuse for failure. Our problems are all due to white racism so why bother.

    Nonsense terms such as "First Nations" people and this ridiculous Voice to Parliament nonsense do nothing but further divide them from the rest of the Australian community. A combination of perpetual victimhood and division from the rest of the community is a road that leads to failure.

    a background of suffering vs wholesale genocide, massacres and enslavement in their own homes... a bit of a difference, those migrants were also not denied their freedoms, education, or culture. 

    90% of those migrants also came to population centres where there were services and opportunities not dust bowl camps set up by successive governments to contain them.  How many Indian, Middle East or European migrants are in the NT?  If you think activists are on the streets living in these conditions to stir them up, you need your head read mate.

    Neck chains ffs were still being used into the 1960's on aboriginal people and you want them just to get over it... I would think the least we can bloody do to atone for the sins of the past is to recognise it constitutionally and give them a vessel to be heard and a chance to participate in what happens to them.



  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 year ago
    Needs a shit load more detail for my vote. 
  • OlChesnut
    OlChesnut
    1 year ago
    Quoting diomac on 01 Feb 2023 04:58 AM

    Warren Mundine is a shill who swapped camps to line his own pocket when he couldn't get his way on the other side.  We've had hundreds of years of white men deciding the fate and trying to be the voice for First Nations people, and that hasn't exactly worked now has it.

    I don't see Warren Mundine calling for the scrapping of other independent bodies that advise Parliament like the Foreign Review Board or Infrastructure Australia, he is just pissed and rattling his sabre as he was not selected as one of the 800 delegates the community appointed to the council of Ethnic Communities nor was he part of the Uluru statement from the heart delegation in 2017.


    There is ZERO reason not to support a Voice to Parliament, a voice of First Nations people, not white men talking for them and at them.  Parliament still has the authority and the power to listen or not to listen to that voice but at least its the voice of the people being affected.  

    My father-in-law is stolen generation, I have seen the effect of others making choices on his behalf have had on him and I hope no other bugger has to go through the same thing.  Imagine growing up where you are a thing and not a person.



    Quoting OlChesnut on 01 Feb 2023 06:19 AM

    Look into any ethnic group that makes up Australian society and you'll find a background of suffering. The British sent here as convicts suffered. Europeans that migrated here suffered as refugees from WWII. The Vietnamese suffered from the Vietnam war. Yet all those ethnic groups have managed to succeed in Australian society.


    Aboriginal people also suffered as a result of colonisation. They were treated very badly. Being denied the vote until 1962 is deplorable. That was 60 years ago, but for some reason large numbers of them continue to lack the success of other ethnic groups. The activists will tell you it's all due to white racism. But looking at the success of other immigrants from India, Asia, The Middle East and Europe, this claim just doesn't hold up.

    The lack of success of many in their community is due to a mentality of division and perpetual victimhood. And a lack of personal responsibility. They've been led down this path by career activists, who've given them an excuse for failure. Our problems are all due to white racism so why bother.

    Nonsense terms such as "First Nations" people and this ridiculous Voice to Parliament nonsense do nothing but further divide them from the rest of the Australian community. A combination of perpetual victimhood and division from the rest of the community is a road that leads to failure.

    Quoting diomac on 01 Feb 2023 06:41 AM

    a background of suffering vs wholesale genocide, massacres and enslavement in their own homes... a bit of a difference, those migrants were also not denied their freedoms, education, or culture. 

    90% of those migrants also came to population centres where there were services and opportunities not dust bowl camps set up by successive governments to contain them.  How many Indian, Middle East or European migrants are in the NT?  If you think activists are on the streets living in these conditions to stir them up, you need your head read mate.


    Neck chains ffs were still being used into the 1960's on aboriginal people and you want them just to get over it... I would think the least we can bloody do to atone for the sins of the past is to recognise it constitutionally and give them a vessel to be heard and a chance to participate in what happens to them.



    Australian society today is completely different to that of the 1960's. History won't change. This community needs to embrace the opportunities given to them today and leave the victim mentality behind. Any Aboriginal person born in the last 50 years has had the same rights and opportunities as anyone else.  It's the generational victim mentality and career activists that have held them back.
  • diomac
    diomac
    1 year ago
    Australian society is better but it is far from completely different, and if you believe our society is free from Racism you are deluding yourself.  We are far from there being pragmatic and having real equal rights and we have nothing like equal opportunities. 

    No idea where you live but I am guessing you haven't spent time in FNQ or the NT.  My wife is in her 40's and due to Australia's previous indigenous policies she doesn't know who her grandparents are on her father's side, they are just names on government paperwork, she has lost the right and opportunity to know her extended family, she was denied the right to her own culture and history.

    So no I don't think she's had the same rights and opportunities as me, and given how important my family is to me I'd say that's a pretty big void and I am very sure if it was you on the pointy end of the knife you would feel differently.

    This is part of the problem people think it's in the past, but the effects are still very real and they have never been really addressed.    Do you realise the horrific number of stolen generations that were abused in Institutionalised care?  18% of females and 8% of males!  Thousands of these people have to live with that and the forced removal from their families... This is alive and living, not in the past.  The state polices of removal only ended in 1982 for crying out loud.

    A 2019 study by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (AIHW) found that children living in households with members of the Stolen Generations are more likely "to experience a range of adverse outcomes", including poor health, especially mental health, missing school and living in poverty.  There are high incidences of anxiety, depression, PTSD and suicide, along with alcohol abuse, among the Stolen Generations, with this resulting in unstable parenting and family situations.

    Show me any evidence of "career activists",  not BS from Skynews, show me the job advert for such a role or the name and company of one of these people that lives in these remote communities leading the "troubles" in Alice Springs etc... its a bloody myth. 
  • softfat
    softfat
    1 year ago
    Without getting emotionally involved in this discussion, I'd like to add some facts. Diomac, you say "So no I don't think she's had the same rights and opportunities as me", and I know you use the had word. This is changing and I'll show how. Like you, I'm married to an indigenous woman, and can say from day one, with our children, whenever they identified as indigenous, doors opened. Closing the gap is one whereby medications for my wife and children are heavily subsidised, Aboriginal housing loans whereby a reduced interest rate, plus if the person can prove their background, the Government will match their deposit, dollar for dollar, up to $10,000. My eldest child has just been through the process. Also, throughout school my children were invited to many functions with my youngest child receiving an Aboriginal scholarship in her final year of school. Schools loved it when a child identified as Aboriginal as they would receive increased funding for each child identifying. Now, out of school, my children don't have to pay for any studies from TAFE. Mention they are indigenous, no payment required. My eldest child is employed in the financial field and doing very well. My youngest, when unemployed through COVID, had her own social worker type of person assisting my child and helping my child with employment. There are many more assisting (I won't call them benefits) programs to assist indigenous people in their day to day life, that is not offered to any other group.      
    My wife was born and bred in Redfern. I was raised in Marrickville. I've attended Aboriginal marriages and spent time with Tony Mundine at one wedding. We were very good friends with singer Casey Donovan's uncle (who we have lost contact with) and my wife still has contact with his wife. I know the NSW Government (I work in Government) whenever they advertise for people, preference is given to Aboriginals. There are many indigenous people working in Government, it's just people would not know unless you knew the person and their background. 
    Whilst whatever occurred in the past cannot be changed, the Government is, I believe, trying their collective best to better life for indigenous, through education and many other programs.
    Oh, yes, I've spent time in Alice Springs and other parts of NT and QLD, although 20 odd years ago, and saw how the indigenous are treated different. 
    Lastly, while my wife, children and I have travelled extensively around Australia, and I don't mean staying in holidays resorts etc, my wife's cousin who really pushes the fact she is Aboriginal and makes claim to the land, who also works in Government, has never been out of Sydney to travel her "own" land, deciding the likes of Hawaii and other parts of the world instead.        
  • softfat
    softfat
    1 year ago
    I will also add, with what I have written up above, I believe the Aboriginal people already have a voice in Parliament.
  • diomac
    diomac
    1 year ago
    Quoting softfat on 01 Feb 2023 10:50 PMedited: 01 Feb 2023 11:41 PM

    Without getting emotionally involved in this discussion, I'd like to add some facts. Diomac, you say "So no I don't think she's had the same rights and opportunities as me", and I know you use the had word. This is changing and I'll show how. Like you, I'm married to an indigenous woman, and can say from day one, with our children, whenever they identified as indigenous, doors opened. Closing the gap is one whereby medications for my wife and children are heavily subsidised, Aboriginal housing loans whereby a reduced interest rate, plus if the person can prove their background, the Government will match their deposit, dollar for dollar, up to $10,000. My eldest child has just been through the process. Also, throughout school my children were invited to many functions with my youngest child receiving an Aboriginal scholarship in her final year of school. Schools loved it when a child identified as Aboriginal as they would receive increased funding for each child identifying. Now, out of school, my children don't have to pay for any studies from TAFE. Mention they are indigenous, no payment required. My eldest child is employed in the financial field and doing very well. My youngest, when unemployed through COVID, had her own social worker type of person assisting my child and helping my child with employment. There are many more assisting (I won't call them benefits) programs to assist indigenous people in their day to day life, that is not offered to any other group.      

    My wife was born and bred in Redfern. I was raised in Marrickville. I've attended Aboriginal marriages and spent time with Tony Mundine at one wedding. We were very good friends with singer Casey Donovan's uncle (who we have lost contact with) and my wife still has contact with his wife. I know the NSW Government (I work in Government) whenever they advertise for people, preference is given to Aboriginals. There are many indigenous people working in Government, it's just people would not know unless you knew the person and their background. 
    Whilst whatever occurred in the past cannot be changed, the Government is, I believe, trying their collective best to better life for indigenous, through education and many other programs.
    Oh, yes, I've spent time in Alice Springs and other parts of NT and QLD, although 20 odd years ago, and saw how the indigenous are treated different. 
    Lastly, while my wife, children and I have travelled extensively around Australia, and I don't mean staying in holidays resorts etc, my wife's cousin who really pushes the fact she is Aboriginal and makes claim to the land, who also works in Government, has never been out of Sydney to travel her "own" land, deciding the likes of Hawaii and other parts of the world instead.        

    Softfat I think you are extending items as being for indigenous that aren't... for example, Fee-Free TAFE funding applies to all Australian or New Zealand citizens or Australian permanent residents (including humanitarian entrants), or a temporary resident with the necessary visa and work permits on the pathway to permanent residency.

    Medications are all PBS items, there are no more or no less subsidised medicines for indigenous.  If you are talking about the Closing the Gap PBS Co-payment Program it is not automatic and it does not apply to all First Nations people, it is up to the GP to determine if the person is at risk of an adverse outcome should they not get the medication and in that instance the PBS co-payment can be waived.  I would point out that this program is not unique and there are other programs like it that extend to other at-risk Australians.

    When you talk about Aboriginal housing loans I will take it you mean the IBA Home Loans, the current variable interest rate is 5.14% with a starting interest rate of anywhere from 1.64% to 3.64% but it only lasts 24 months.  These terms can and are matched by any major bank for any Australian.  Case in point my Skippy White dude Suncorp loan rate is 2.28% half the IBA rate.

    The National Housing Finance and Investment Corporation (NHFIC) supports eligible home buyers to purchase a home sooner through a participating lender (such as IBA) by providing three schemes:

    1. First Home Guarantee (FHBG) supports you buy a first home sooner, with a deposit of as little as 5%.

    2. Regional First Home Buyer Guarantee (RFHBG) supports first home buyers who have been living in a regional area for minimum 12 months. The property being purchased must be in the same or an adjacent area to the one the buyer currently lives in. Deposit required is as little as 5%.

    3. Family Home Guarantee (FHG) aims to support eligible single parents with at least one dependent child in purchasing a family home, with a deposit as little as 2%. This is available to eligible first home owners and previous home owners.

    None of these schemes matches anyone dollar for dollar on a deposit and these schemes are open to all Australian citizens.  NSW has their own set of grants which does include matching people's existing deposit savings on a dollar-for-dollar ($1:$1) basis up to a maximum of $10,000.  To be honest 10k is hardly world-beating when there were schemes open to all Australian first-home buyers that dwarfed that and again it was a State based grant, not Federal.  Oh, and to be eligible you can't have a Remote Indigenous Housing Loan package which has its own strict criteria. 

    This idea that there are some how magical programmes "that is not offered to any other group" is just a myth, yes there are programs that require First Nations decent to access, and you know what there are programs for EVERY other at-risk, underprivileged or struggling group in Australia.  For every program you name or quote for First Nations people, I can show you an equivalent for other Australian groups.

    But you know what if it was just a matter of money, we'd be done by now, my wife doesn't need money or anyone's assistance, she has never claimed a thing, and our daughter identifies but again doesn't claim a thing, and we don't want her to.  I have been very lucky in life to have an extremely good standard of living, my wife and I are both in the top tax brackets, but that doesn't mean my wife doesn't suffer from past policies and wants to see change and for people like her father to have a real voice and a say in how they are treated.

    When I had an office in Townsville, I had a sparky lose his mind because I hired an Aboriginal kid as an apprentice, I had mates that would boast about going over to South Townsville to do some c**n bashing.  When it was funny to have King Billy Coke Bottle come along to the pub on a Sunday arvo...  and that was all in my lifetime, I would hate to have seen what it was like for my father-in-law.

    My question is what valid reason given the number of other independent bodies reporting to Parliament is there not to support the creation of a body where the people being affected by Government policy actually have an opportunity to help craft and reflect on that policy and or legislation?  Where the stakeholders are actually involved in some self-determination rather than throwing money at the problem(s) from afar without their involvement.

    As for constitutional recognition... really people oppose it? wtf for are we really that petty that we can't update the preamble and remove the discriminatory provisions from our Constitution?  If it doesn't harm you why oppose it?  Whats the negative here?












  • softfat
    softfat
    1 year ago
    Yeah, got through half of what you wrote and lost interest. 
    Fee free TAFE for all you say. Can I ask those here if any non indigenous have received free TAFE courses. My eldest has, even though the child works, and is still studying.
    Closing the Gap. Until recently, all a person had to do was write "CtG" on their prescription and it was discounted. Now the Doctor has to do it, but you needed to identify you are indigenous.
    Housing loan. Well my child said the loan was for the life of the loan. I don't have a mortgage and haven't had one for a long time so they can up the rates all they want. I earn more on my savings. 
    The dollar for dollar deposit was that my child HAD to prove their indigenous background, so I don't believe it is available to all, not that program at least. 
    You didn't respond to my comment on how indigenous people are looked on favourably when applying for jobs with the Government, and I know this as fact, due to my union and trainer background, not some bloke at the pub told me. 
    One other thing. This is what I was told and don't know if fact, and you maybe able to enlighten me with your wealth of knowledge. It was told to me by an indigenous woman that if a person decides to send their child/children to a private school, the Government will assist with cost. I don't have school age children but do have school aged grandchildren. 
    You say you and your family have never claimed a thing. Good for you. I said I spoke facts and outlined why I know these things. You carry on about it but have never claimed. Is that because the "blokes at the pub" told you so, so it must be true? Just asking for a friend. 
    I won't respond any further on this subject because I feel you are on a crusade and anything that is written here I feel you will turn around to suit yourself.    
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 year ago
    But what are we voting for in "The voice"?.......next to zero detail in the proposal.
  • Stewy
    Stewy
    1 year ago
    What the fuck has ANY of the above got to do with Harley Davidson 
  • bloodog
    bloodog
    1 year ago
    Quoting Stewy on 02 Feb 2023 09:47 AM

    What the fuck has ANY of the above got to do with Harley Davidson 

    Screen Shot 2023-02-02 at 8.45.58 pm.png
  • obisteve
    obisteve
    1 year ago
    Fee free TAFE courses?  Sure, in Qld there's a lot of free training to Certificate III level, if you don't already have a Cert III or higher qualification, or have one and it hasn't helped you find employment, are a citizen or permanent resident, or on the pathway to permanent residency.
    Can't comment about a lot of the other stuff, but do know TAFE Qld.
  • diomac
    diomac
    1 year ago
    "Well my child said the loan was for the life of the loan." "I said I spoke facts"

    Clearly, you are not speaking facts as it is very easy to verify ie the attached from the IBA setting out the interest rates and the introductory period. 

    There is a difference between "favouring" certain applicants over others and only hiring those people.  Governments and some private firms like mine highly value diversity so for example in my IT Teams I favour women over males and I have a 6:1 ratio of males to women and I would like to see that ratio decrease, it does not mean I don't give the job to the best applicant or not hire blokes.

    Plenty of people in business won't hire First Nations peoples or Muslims for that matter based on simple prejudice, it is alive and well.

    Screenshot 2023-02-03 at 8.50.06 am.png
  • Hoodeng
    Hoodeng
    1 year ago
    Succinct Stewy, succinct.

    I see there are some very well read advocates on rights, entitlements and acronyms, good on em for their cause.

    The only acronym that has been constant in my working life of motorcycles has been PAYG.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1 year ago
    I'm not against updating the constitution, but how effective is a voice to parliament going to be when the division of indigenous opinion is so vast? Honestly saying there are other bodies of representatives so why not this seems a stretch when you look at say the coal board as an example and how consolidated their approach is, it truly represents what that industry wants/needs if you get my drift.

    It's not a no from me, I have indigenous step kids, both grown, I'm no stranger to what goes on but even they disagree with each other on the best way forward, it's a hard one to sort out and I'll be waiting to see what exactly this voice is going to look like and who it is actually going to represent before I raise my hand.

    Those living in poverty and squalor  need a hand to get up, there is a cycle that needs to be broken, it's the how of it that is the problem, throwing money at it doesn't/hasn't worked.
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