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Thundermax ECM information

  • BEAST1
    BEAST1
    1 year ago
    I'm looking for information/advice about Thundermax ECM with AutoTune. 
    I have a 2000 Road King Classic, which I have rebuilt my Engine to a 124ci with S&S 124CI Flywheel assembly etc.
    585 easy start cams etc. 
    I had a HPI-55MM-18 With larger injectors installed. 
    I have a Power Commander V installed and had it fully dyno tuned. Achieving a modest 140hp and 150ft pound torque to the rear wheel. 
    The problem is that it's very erratic, once warmed up it doesn't like to idle. 
    When taking off normally ( not punching it hard ) it sometimes flick sideways and other times dogs out.
    I've taken it back several times to be checked at the tuners, but still have issues. 
    So I am thinking about getting a Thundermax ECM with AutoTune installed. 
    Would this be a good choice or not ?
    Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. 
    Thanks 


  • Daffy
    Daffy
    1 year ago
    I had a Thundermax on my 2011 Deluxe   It was fantastic!  Couldn’t speak highly enough about it. Go for it 
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    1 year ago
    I have run a TMax with Autotune on my 09 Sporty for 5+ years.  Bloody amazing unit; cannot speak high enough of it.
    I have a laptop and cable so download the maps from TMAX and upload to the unit...I also do the autotune update function via the laptop as well.  I will note though that the Sporty motor is 100% stock as I'm more into tweaking the look than performance. 
  • Retroman
    Retroman
    1 year ago
    Mate is your bike a 2000 model or a 2001 model built in 2000? From August onwards.
    The Delphi ECM/EFI from 2001/2002 onwards is much less problematic than the earlier Magnetti Marelli EFI.

    Here in Perth WA fuel injection was rare right up until 2007 when carbies were no longer available.
    2007 onwards all HD big twins were EFI. Despite the "Aussie wariness" it has proved to be largely trouble free.

    I believe most (if not all!) big twins in the USA were Delphi EFI/ECM equipped since 2002.
  • BEAST1
    BEAST1
    1 year ago
    Nah mate, definitely a 2000 model. Has the ECM and all the wiring erc is only for marelli set up. Had nothing but trouble with the tune since I bought it.
  • Retroman
    Retroman
    1 year ago
    I am not sure a Thundermax system can help you there mate.

    The "cure" for Magnetti Marelli EFI problems was a return to carburettor. There was a list of parts for substitution available on the internet a while back. Some had to be new HD parts and of course the carby could be found low K's used back then.
    You could even go the "Mikuni" route as a lot of folks in Oz did all thru the 90's and early 2000's.

    The US forums will be your best bet for finding the info. There used to be a guy on here, Scotty, who was full bottle as I think he had done the conversion back to carby himself.

    Sadly he fell foul of some characters on the forum quite a few years ago now.

    All the best in your search.
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    1 year ago
    The big question with the MM is:  Is the problem in the Throttle body and associated parts or is it in the Harley Programming of their ECU.  If its the later then a TMax might just work (I would send an email to Zippers and ask the question)
  • BEAST1
    BEAST1
    1 year ago
    Quoting tussuck on 15 Jan 2023 05:25 AM

    The big question with the MM is:  Is the problem in the Throttle body and associated parts or is it in the Harley Programming of their ECU.  If its the later then a TMax might just work (I would send an email to Zippers and ask the question)

    Everywhere I called have said that change the ECM/ECU.
    The manifold and injection system just wasn't big enough for the 124ci build. Hence the change to the HPI-55MM-18. I've looked into the Thundermax Replacement, but there's a lot of reviews saying that they're hard to set up properly. 
    I really don't want to do a carby conversion. 
    The Power Commander V is a great product, but it's still a piggy-back. I really think it's something ( Problems ) in the stock ECM/ECU.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1 year ago
    Maybe give Lushy a ring mate, I dunno what's the best option for you personally but that ECM was problematic with big engine mods, not many real tuners would point you to a Thundermax but in your circumstances I'm thinking it might be your best option, maybe Magnum will jump in on ECM replacement options as he did mention one to me recently that some tuners in the states are having success with.
  • Retroman
    Retroman
    1 year ago
    I have done (and still do) a lot of ECM/EFI tuning work on 2002 and up bikes. All Aussie bikes have been Delphi EFI since 2007.

    I have been asked if I could sort out Magnetti Marelli EFI bikes. All of which had come from the eastern states as used bikes.

    Rough running/intermittent faults/poor idle/bogging down etc etc. All the stuff you describe.

    Frasers Perth had a long-held policy of only ordering carby bikes for stock right up to the 2006 Dynas all of which were EFI.

    Frasers sold hardly any Magnetti Marelli bikes as a result, and very few Delphi bikes until 2006.

    They were immediately "suss" of the Delphi EFI bikes and pissed off the O2 sensors and fitted Power Commanders and "dyno tuned" them. That was a fucking stupid idea in hindsight. By 2017 Frasers fitted Supertuner Pro up to everyfuckingthing before they left the shop.

    Some Indy shops fitted Thundermax systems (crazy fucking dear at the time!! $1400 or some chit..).

    Frasers sold hardly any original black Screaming Eagle tuners or the later 2008 and up Orange Supertuner Pro systems at first.

    Within a few years I was taking off Power Commanders where the electrics were not as robust as the stock Delphi stuff, reconnecting the O2 sensors and using original 2002 up to 2008 SERT or Supertuner Pro 2002 to 2018 software to get the bikes running better than they ever had been, (with way better fuel consumption as well as a bonus!)

    My personal experience of Thundermax systems has been in removing them as the connections corrode (or worse), refitting the stock ECM and O2 sensors and smooth-running bikes again. These Tmax systems could be up to 10 years old and nobody in WA could or would work on or "fix" them.

    The Indy shops here got well kinky for Powervision and sold a fair few of the systems, but I could see no advantage over Supertuner Pro. The "gimmick" of a recorder on the bars while you rode around? Yeah-nah to that for me. JUST MY LEARNED OPINION

    Anyhow that don't help your immediate problem. Maybe Tmax is your  only option if not doing a carby conversion.
    Sorry I just don't know anything about them. I have been asked, even just recently I serviced a 2008 Fatboy with Tmax ECM since 2008 and as it was running smoothly enough I just did all the other service items BAR ECM tuning. Now that guy did have the original ECM and O2 sensors in a neat wee bag. Job had been done new in Cairns in 2008. He WILL need it in the future.
  • Lushy
    Lushy
    1 year ago
    OP, which TPS was used with the HPI throttle body? Was it from the MM system? there could be issues there. If all the MM kit on the bike is OK, there is no valid reason why the fuelling in the PC V would alter. The engine temp sensor on the MM system is sketchy when old ( they are all old now ), check that, these make the fuelling vary wildly when faulty.  There are a number of questions/comments which could arise from all these posts. 140hp is quite good, 150 Tq! With 585 cams in a 124? What compression? The motor runs hot I bet. I do still have the race kit software ( and lead) which is for the magneti marelli "race" ecu, if you were to jag one of them somehow.... Most of the issues I have had with the system is sensor related. IF everything is sound and adjusted well, they work OK. Having said that, why not look into converting it to a delphi system off say a 2007 bike? Parts would be cheap.  I have not done this, which is why I said "look into it" there may be some reason why it is not possible. The delphi system is as reliable as an axe.    
  • BEAST1
    BEAST1
    1 year ago
    Thanks Lushy,
    I think the comp is 9.9:1 off the top of my head.
    It does run a bit hot. I'm looking at getting an oil cooler kit for it as well. 
    I will look into that for sure.
    I have spoken to a fella at Mikuni Oz about doing a 48mm HSR Mikuni Carb Conversion Kit in it. He says that it would make a big difference and have it easier to manage. 
    I put a HSR 42 Carb on my 2004 Wide Glide to replace the CV Carb that was on it originally. I noticed a heap of difference with that.
    Alot of the US forums are saying that it's the best way to go.
    👍


  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1 year ago
    Metered fuel leak versus injection, I was all carby until I wasn't, surprised me a bit to read the MM system is considered sound, got a few mates that would beg to differ but I've had no personal experience with them so I'll consider what Lushy says as gospel.
  • 408
    408
    1 year ago
    Try getting in touch with Jason Clasquin at C & S Speedshop in lllinois .
    He is working with a new ecu called MaxxECU. 
    I have no idea whether it would be adaptable to your bike or not.
    Otherwise look at Delphi.
    Likely more dollars than a carb conversion but would be a worthwhile investment since your bike sounds like a ‘keeper’.
  • Lushy
    Lushy
    1 year ago
    GM, the Marelli system was finicky to adjust and unless you got the race ECU, pretty much a power commander over the top was the only way of tuning. If set up well it was okay. I recall one customer with a bagger with 110000 KMs on his bike. A 124 would be a different kettle of fish I reckon 🙂
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