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2011 Ultra starting problem

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  • B0nes
    B0nes
    2 years ago
    Hi guys.
    Trying to work out a problem with my 2011 103 Ultra. It's only just recently starting causing me some grief. When I go to start it when warm, she turns over fine but won't fire straight away. Sometimes it will backfire out the exhaust and scare the crap out of some bystanders. After this she will start fine. It doesn't always do this and sometimes she fires up straight away without a problem. Occasionally when warm the idle will fluctuate a hundred or so rpms.
    Haven't changed anything on the bike recently so that's not a problem. Just a guess but I'm leaning towards manifold leak somewhere.
  • Antic
    Antic
    2 years ago
    Sounds like Fuel air Mixture
    Carbon build up on pistons

     When the exhaust ports are opened, there’s too much fuel for the combustion chamber to have burnt. This leads to left-over fuel being ignited after the combustion process has already taken place.





  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    2 years ago
    IAC might be filthy, can cause starting and idling issues, if you have never cleaned it it's a place to start, carby cleaner works pretty well, stuff a clean rag in the TB so the crud doesn't get into the engine.
  • B0nes
    B0nes
    2 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 18 Jul 2022 09:44 AM

    IAC might be filthy, can cause starting and idling issues, if you have never cleaned it it's a place to start, carby cleaner works pretty well, stuff a clean rag in the TB so the crud doesn't get into the engine.

    Cleaned IAC about 6 months ago. Ran great after that, Might give it another clean this weekend and see how it goes. Also any suggestion on which product to use to clean out the combustion chambers of carbon buildup. The yank forums all suggest seafoam but I've not seen it in oz
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    2 years ago
    Seafoam is great.  Ill have a look tomorrow and see if I have some in the shed, as it sounds like one of those odd things I would buy.
  • B0nes
    B0nes
    2 years ago
    Quoting tussuck on 18 Jul 2022 11:03 AM

    Seafoam is great.  Ill have a look tomorrow and see if I have some in the shed, as it sounds like one of those odd things I would buy.

    Been browsing online and found a Nulon product which looks like an alternative to seafoam. The reviews I've read all have good things to say about the product. Will pick up a can tomorrow and give it a shot.
  • B0nes
    B0nes
    2 years ago
    Had a split shift at work today so stopped at Supercheap and picked up a can of Nulon Upper Engine Cleaner. After cleaning the IAC I spray some into the intake with the engine running. After that I removed the plugs and sprayed a shit load into the cylinders and let it sit for 30min. Cranked the engine over without the plugs to blow out the excess, installed new plugs while I was at it. Cranked it over and after a few revolutions she fired up. Surprised nobody called the fire brigade with the amount of smoke that followed. Took about 10min before she stopped smoking, went for a quick run. Came home checked it over then rode to work. So far so good, runs like a dream and the seat of the pants feeling is it is more responsive on take off from traffic lights. Time will tell but the stuff looks like it worked. Now planning to run a bypass on the breather system so I don't have the same problem down the track. Will do the same on the Nightrain over the weekend.
    Thanks guys for your help.
  • Baloffski
    Baloffski
    2 years ago
    spraynpray, used similar shit over the years, good starter, but is a temp fix. Though cleans out the lines. 
    Very interesting, I have that shit on a shelf and similar , to use.
  • Antic
    Antic
    2 years ago
    This is only my opinion, so be kind

    A bypass breather is really the only way to stop the excess carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. 
    Harley's way to comply with imissions and divert the oil filled warm air into the air intake is a lazy engineering solution, and to be honest a slight on us owners who suffer the concequences
    They should have engineered a catch can solution.

    Also, spraying all kinds of shit into cylinders in a temporary solution at best, and common sense will tell you this, especially if there is tens of thousands of kilometers of carbon build up

    My way of dealing with this is

    Bypass breather

    Run premium fuel for cleaner burn

    Nulon fuel additive through the system every 10 thousand ks or every second oil change in my case



  • Baloffski
    Baloffski
    2 years ago
    Quoting Antic on 20 Jul 2022 12:11 AM

    This is only my opinion, so be kind


    A bypass breather is really the only way to stop the excess carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. 
    Harley's way to comply with imissions and divert the oil filled warm air into the air intake is a lazy engineering solution, and to be honest a slight on us owners who suffer the concequences
    They should have engineered a catch can solution.

    Also, spraying all kinds of shit into cylinders in a temporary solution at best, and common sense will tell you this, especially if there is tens of thousands of kilometers of carbon build up

    My way of dealing with this is

    Bypass breather

    Run premium fuel for cleaner burn

    Nulon fuel additive through the system every 10 thousand ks or every second oil change in my case



    Ya know in years to come, thank fuck I'll be gone, they'll say.. It's ya brushes or armature winding, electric bikes. 
    Sorry, just had ta throw that in.
  • 408
    408
    2 years ago
    Quoting Antic on 20 Jul 2022 12:11 AM

    This is only my opinion, so be kind


    A bypass breather is really the only way to stop the excess carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. 
    Harley's way to comply with imissions and divert the oil filled warm air into the air intake is a lazy engineering solution, and to be honest a slight on us owners who suffer the concequences
    They should have engineered a catch can solution.

    Also, spraying all kinds of shit into cylinders in a temporary solution at best, and common sense will tell you this, especially if there is tens of thousands of kilometers of carbon build up

    My way of dealing with this is

    Bypass breather

    Run premium fuel for cleaner burn

    Nulon fuel additive through the system every 10 thousand ks or every second oil change in my case




    Best way to stop excessive buildup of carbon in the combustion chamber is to set your squish for efficient combustion.
    Get a decent tune. Your spark plugs will tell how good your combustion is.
    Anyone who thinks they need to run their bike on 98 is dreaming.
    "oil filled warm air" is a generous description of the crap that is fed from the breathers back into the intake with the factory setup.
    If you paid for a decent tune, ( or did your own ) checking the contents of a catch can will confirm you have done a good thing not putting that shit back into your throttlebody.

  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    2 years ago
    Subaru make a top end cleaner that's said to be the equivalent of seafoam, my issue with that coarse of action is.......never mind, 408 has it nailed on prevention though.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    2 years ago
    Change the oil as well after using that stuff.
  • B0nes
    B0nes
    2 years ago
    Gave the bike a full service today and changed all the fluids and a full detail. Plan to spend the weekend coming up with a breather bypass setup for both bikes. Since the weather is going to be nasty for the next few days up here in SEQ
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    2 years ago
    You're onto it, move north :)
  • Uncle Chougs
    Uncle Chougs
    2 years ago
    Hey BOnes,
    To add into the conversation,I think your problem might have been caused by faulty spark plugs after all.
     You have a fuel injected engine...The back firing from time to time does defenitly sounds like unburnt fuel build up in one of the cylinders causing the detonation when the spark plug is firing again.
     Carbon build up is a much easier possible cause to diagnose in an engine(carbs or fuel injected)as your bike will have a blue exhaust smoke(caused by oil getting into the combustion chamber,worn engine etc..).What can also happen in carbon build up(if the carbon build up in thecombustion chamber is excessive...)is a tendency for the engine to still run for few seconds after you switch off the engine (pre-ignition).Black exhaust smoke is a sign of fuel mixture problem.
    If you are running Champion plugs I would swap them for the NGK equivalent for better performance and reliability.I also would steer away from any products(wether it is a fuel additive or oil additive) to "help" solving problems as most will give you more trouble than they are worth.
     "If the particles in any of those products are big enough to be seen with the naked eye,they are big enough to clog your filters or damage your engine!."
     A higher octane fuel(98) works wonders to keep upper cylinder and injectors clean and also helps with fuel mileage and as the fuel mixture burns better,you will get more response and power from your engine!.
  • steelo
    steelo
    2 years ago
    Quoting Antic on 20 Jul 2022 12:11 AM

    This is only my opinion, so be kind


    A bypass breather is really the only way to stop the excess carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. 
    Harley's way to comply with imissions and divert the oil filled warm air into the air intake is a lazy engineering solution, and to be honest a slight on us owners who suffer the concequences
    They should have engineered a catch can solution.

    Also, spraying all kinds of shit into cylinders in a temporary solution at best, and common sense will tell you this, especially if there is tens of thousands of kilometers of carbon build up

    My way of dealing with this is

    Bypass breather

    Run premium fuel for cleaner burn

    Nulon fuel additive through the system every 10 thousand ks or every second oil change in my case



    Quoting 408 on 20 Jul 2022 07:55 AM


    Best way to stop excessive buildup of carbon in the combustion chamber is to set your squish for efficient combustion.
    Get a decent tune. Your spark plugs will tell how good your combustion is.
    Anyone who thinks they need to run their bike on 98 is dreaming.
    "oil filled warm air" is a generous description of the crap that is fed from the breathers back into the intake with the factory setup.
    If you paid for a decent tune, ( or did your own ) checking the contents of a catch can will confirm you have done a good thing not putting that shit back into your throttlebody.

    May I ask how a good tune can prevent oil rich air being returned to throttle body. 
    My m8 ultra is standard, I’ve done 50k and no issues (kow). All it ever gets is fluids and plugs replaced. 
  • 408
    408
    2 years ago
    Quoting Antic on 20 Jul 2022 12:11 AM

    This is only my opinion, so be kind


    A bypass breather is really the only way to stop the excess carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. 
    Harley's way to comply with imissions and divert the oil filled warm air into the air intake is a lazy engineering solution, and to be honest a slight on us owners who suffer the concequences
    They should have engineered a catch can solution.

    Also, spraying all kinds of shit into cylinders in a temporary solution at best, and common sense will tell you this, especially if there is tens of thousands of kilometers of carbon build up

    My way of dealing with this is

    Bypass breather

    Run premium fuel for cleaner burn

    Nulon fuel additive through the system every 10 thousand ks or every second oil change in my case



    Quoting 408 on 20 Jul 2022 07:55 AM


    Best way to stop excessive buildup of carbon in the combustion chamber is to set your squish for efficient combustion.
    Get a decent tune. Your spark plugs will tell how good your combustion is.
    Anyone who thinks they need to run their bike on 98 is dreaming.
    "oil filled warm air" is a generous description of the crap that is fed from the breathers back into the intake with the factory setup.
    If you paid for a decent tune, ( or did your own ) checking the contents of a catch can will confirm you have done a good thing not putting that shit back into your throttlebody.

    Quoting steelo on 22 Jul 2022 06:35 AM

    May I ask how a good tune can prevent oil rich air being returned to throttle body. 

    My m8 ultra is standard, I’ve done 50k and no issues (kow). All it ever gets is fluids and plugs replaced. 


    A good tune helps reduce carbon buildup in the combustion chamber.
    A hose from the breathers to a catch can or atmosphere is the means to prevent the 'oil rich air' from being returned to the throttlebody, except for the most part, it is not oil rich air, as I said previously.
    Depending on which part of the country you live in, there will be a fair bit of condensation in the engine, which is vapourised with engine heating, producing an oil/water mix, which ends up in the catch can, or the throttlebody.
    Standard bikes usually have a shit tune.
    Standard bikes usually have a generous head gasket thickness giving rise to inefficient combustion.
  • robots
    robots
    2 years ago
    Quoting Antic on 20 Jul 2022 12:11 AM

    This is only my opinion, so be kind


    A bypass breather is really the only way to stop the excess carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. 
    Harley's way to comply with imissions and divert the oil filled warm air into the air intake is a lazy engineering solution, and to be honest a slight on us owners who suffer the concequences
    They should have engineered a catch can solution.

    Also, spraying all kinds of shit into cylinders in a temporary solution at best, and common sense will tell you this, especially if there is tens of thousands of kilometers of carbon build up

    My way of dealing with this is

    Bypass breather

    Run premium fuel for cleaner burn

    Nulon fuel additive through the system every 10 thousand ks or every second oil change in my case



    Quoting 408 on 20 Jul 2022 07:55 AM


    Best way to stop excessive buildup of carbon in the combustion chamber is to set your squish for efficient combustion.
    Get a decent tune. Your spark plugs will tell how good your combustion is.
    Anyone who thinks they need to run their bike on 98 is dreaming.
    "oil filled warm air" is a generous description of the crap that is fed from the breathers back into the intake with the factory setup.
    If you paid for a decent tune, ( or did your own ) checking the contents of a catch can will confirm you have done a good thing not putting that shit back into your throttlebody.

    Quoting steelo on 22 Jul 2022 06:35 AM

    May I ask how a good tune can prevent oil rich air being returned to throttle body. 

    My m8 ultra is standard, I’ve done 50k and no issues (kow). All it ever gets is fluids and plugs replaced. 

    yes how does the tune prevent oil rich air being returned to throttle body?

    efi now controlling oil movement on bike??
  • steelo
    steelo
    2 years ago
    I think reading back over m’s post that they are two separate issues.
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