The land of the free

  • GGUser260
    GGUser260
    1 month
    Quoting Wideglider on 06 Dec 2021 12:03 PM

    https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/05/republican-thomas-massie-condemned-for-christmas-guns-photo-congressman-michigan-school-shooting

    Hopefully Australia will not become as 'free' as them.

    Quoting paulybronco on 06 Dec 2021 08:18 PM

    Australia went the polar opposite...we disarmed the population.

    The U.S. militants, Right wingers, nasties and gangland criminals will never give up their illegal guns nor will they obey future laws of responsible gun ownership. The number of guns in the US is astronomical (multi millions); the ability of a would be mass shooter to get access to destructive weapons is as easy as getting access to a cricket bat is for Australians. It's similar to the argument to abolish nuclear weapons, you can't erase the knowledge to make nuclear bombs (so they will always be there) despite one’s noble intentions to eradicate the threat of nuclear destruction.
    The US has had: a War of Independence, a Civil War, the wild west, 2 World Wars ,the Cold War, a war on drugs and a war on terror-their culture has been forged in a history of violence war and guns ;even today their worldly sphere of influence extends well beyond US borders and into other sovereign nations' interests. Whilst their 2nd amendment continues ,with a right of the people to keep and bear arms, the mentality of the need to protect with violence will never end.
    The argument is circular and self fulfilling- the more mass shootings that occur ,the more the paranoid gun owners will cling to their guns and point to the evil from which they must be protected. The change required needs to be slow and supported by the people. I suggest an interpretation of "arms" in the 2nd Amendment to be a single handgun rather than the far wider definition of  destructive military-style weapons. After all, the 2nd Amendment was introduced in 1791 when the "arms" contemplated were no more than single-shot muskets! Technology's focus on advanced mechanized weapons to kill people has far exceeded the original intent of the 2nd Amendment!
    Start slow, open the debate by showing how the "good people's" right to defend themselves and their loved ones, has been weakened by allowing a proliferation of ,"bad people" to develop a greater destructive threat to society as a whole.
    Americans generally portray the debate as "good versus evil" -the slow change required is that good citizens and their basic rights to defend their: honest, hard-working, God loving, families will not be targeted by a government seeking to weaken them -the debate needs to shift from "fascist gun lovers" versus "hippy gun haters", to a war between: the "good" GROUP A (the military, the police, responsible and honest gun- loving citizens, freedom lovers, liberals, tax paying right wingers and true Americans)...against the "evil" GROUP B :(criminals ,terrorists ,mass murderers, gang-bangers and people with the sole intent of exploiting the second Amendment to accumulate and use destructive weapons to threaten those in GROUP A).
    As a final aside, one can't have a war on guns (just like one can't have a war on drugs) the guns themselves are not the problem, the problem is keeping them away from the people in GROUP B .To avoid any doubt of being misunderstood mass shootings are a despicable blight on humanity... along with: War, murder and using Religion to justify the heinous actions of man.

  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 month
    Quoting Wideglider on 06 Dec 2021 12:03 PM

    https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/05/republican-thomas-massie-condemned-for-christmas-guns-photo-congressman-michigan-school-shooting

    Hopefully Australia will not become as 'free' as them.

    Quoting paulybronco on 06 Dec 2021 08:18 PM

    Australia went the polar opposite...we disarmed the population.

    Quoting GGUser260 on 06 Dec 2021 09:01 PMedited: 06 Dec 2021 09:04 PM

    The U.S. militants, Right wingers, nasties and gangland criminals will never give up their illegal guns nor will they obey future laws of responsible gun ownership. The number of guns in the US is astronomical (multi millions); the ability of a would be mass shooter to get access to destructive weapons is as easy as getting access to a cricket bat is for Australians. It's similar to the argument to abolish nuclear weapons, you can't erase the knowledge to make nuclear bombs (so they will always be there) despite one’s noble intentions to eradicate the threat of nuclear destruction.

    The US has had: a War of Independence, a Civil War, the wild west, 2 World Wars ,the Cold War, a war on drugs and a war on terror-their culture has been forged in a history of violence war and guns ;even today their worldly sphere of influence extends well beyond US borders and into other sovereign nations' interests. Whilst their 2nd amendment continues ,with a right of the people to keep and bear arms, the mentality of the need to protect with violence will never end.
    The argument is circular and self fulfilling- the more mass shootings that occur ,the more the paranoid gun owners will cling to their guns and point to the evil from which they must be protected. The change required needs to be slow and supported by the people. I suggest an interpretation of "arms" in the 2nd Amendment to be a single handgun rather than the far wider definition of  destructive military-style weapons. After all, the 2nd Amendment was introduced in 1791 when the "arms" contemplated were no more than single-shot muskets! Technology's focus on advanced mechanized weapons to kill people has far exceeded the original intent of the 2nd Amendment!
    Start slow, open the debate by showing how the "good people's" right to defend themselves and their loved ones, has been weakened by allowing a proliferation of ,"bad people" to develop a greater destructive threat to society as a whole.
    Americans generally portray the debate as "good versus evil" -the slow change required is that good citizens and their basic rights to defend their: honest, hard-working, God loving, families will not be targeted by a government seeking to weaken them -the debate needs to shift from "fascist gun lovers" versus "hippy gun haters", to a war between: the "good" GROUP A (the military, the police, responsible and honest gun- loving citizens, freedom lovers, liberals, tax paying right wingers and true Americans)...against the "evil" GROUP B :(criminals ,terrorists ,mass murderers, gang-bangers and people with the sole intent of exploiting the second Amendment to accumulate and use destructive weapons to threaten those in GROUP A).
    As a final aside, one can't have a war on guns (just like one can't have a war on drugs) the guns themselves are not the problem, the problem is keeping them away from the people in GROUP B .To avoid any doubt of being misunderstood mass shootings are a despicable blight on humanity... along with: War, murder and using Religion to justify the heinous actions of man.

    Not to forget the role that politics and gun lobby groups place on presiding governments as well as hopeful candidates. The NRA has a rumored 5.5million members that look more favorably at like minded officials to ensure that ongoing gun debate is represented strongly at the various levels of power. In terms of lobbying, the NRA officially spends about $3m per year to influence gun policy.
    But to offer balance to their role they do also spend around $250million on shooting ranges, safety and education courses etc.