Man in wheel chair shot 9 times in the back by U.S cop

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  • steelo
    steelo
    1 month
    I felt despair at both shootings. Especially poignant was the photo of the young woman with her birthday cake. She was everyone’s sister, daughter or relative. 
    Had a neighbour with a big knife going off in his downstairs unit about an issue with his girlfriend. Mate and I tried to calm him down and he was threatening us and himself. Eventually cops and ambos arrived (prior to tasers and oc spray) and rushed and disabled him with a mattress. I guess it’s a matter of degrees. Easy enough to bowl a fellow in a wheelchair over. I guess I wouldn’t have shot in either case but I wasn’t there. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 month
    Its a tough call in the second incident. No use being a victim yourself in that scenario. Today those cops with the mattress would be reprimanded for their actions the same as the local plod who gave me a clip around the ears for being a drunken dickhead all those yrs ago. I would have shot in the second case.
  • evo94
    evo94
    1 month
    maybe plod should only be trusted with being issued a fkg mattress coz re 2nd case they sure as hell cant be trusted to do basic maintenance on their present equipment....situ wouldnt have got to the stage that it did!

    "previously attempted to shoot Topic with a taser, but it malfunctioned due to battery degradation and damaged cartridges."
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 month
    Quoting evo94 on 04 Dec 2021 02:26 AM

    maybe plod should only be trusted with being issued a fkg mattress coz re 2nd case they sure as hell cant be trusted to do basic maintenance on their present equipment....situ wouldnt have got to the stage that it did!

    "previously attempted to shoot Topic with a taser, but it malfunctioned due to battery degradation and damaged cartridges."

    Guess you get to find out your maintenance aint up to scratch when all you hear is ....CLICK....
    I am not sure if you are assigned a taser per shift or if its like your firearm that's yours for the duration of your service. Certainly needs a service schedule to ensure the equipment is fit for purpose.
    Funny how radar equipment gets regular calibration compliance. 
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    1 month
    Firing a gun 9 times into the back and side of a 60+ yo mentally unwell man in a motorised wheelchair who would not drop a knife and may have stolen a tool box can never be a reasonable or proportionate use of force. Anyone who says or thinks otherwise is making a fool of themselves, doesn’t know shit about police use of force models, and probably shouldn’t be commenting 
  • binnsy
    binnsy
    1 month
    Quoting steelo on 04 Dec 2021 12:19 AM

    I felt despair at both shootings. Especially poignant was the photo of the young woman with her birthday cake. She was everyone’s sister, daughter or relative. 

    Had a neighbour with a big knife going off in his downstairs unit about an issue with his girlfriend. Mate and I tried to calm him down and he was threatening us and himself. Eventually cops and ambos arrived (prior to tasers and oc spray) and rushed and disabled him with a mattress. I guess it’s a matter of degrees. Easy enough to bowl a fellow in a wheelchair over. I guess I wouldn’t have shot in either case but I wasn’t there. 

    Big call steelo, saying you wouldn't have shot when someone is coming at you with a knife and wont drop it.. Pretty sure his intention wasn't to carve up the xmas turkey for you.  Bowling some fucker over with a knife in his hand isn't an option and anyone who thinks they could do it without getting that knife stuck between their ribs if that was the guys intention is kidding themselves.  Interesting to hear anyone on here that has been in that position and thought to themselves, I think Ill push this guy over, or better yet Ill get myself a mattress to solve the problem.  A person coming at you with a knife can cover 7 metres in a second, that's not an assumption that is fact.  Dont know about the U.S.A but Section 462a of the Crimes Act is worth a read.  The decision this guy made in a split second is then torn apart by the Coroner over a matter of months.  Not to mention the keyboard experts. 
  • GGUser260
    GGUser260
    1 month
    Quoting steelo on 04 Dec 2021 12:19 AM

    I felt despair at both shootings. Especially poignant was the photo of the young woman with her birthday cake. She was everyone’s sister, daughter or relative. 

    Had a neighbour with a big knife going off in his downstairs unit about an issue with his girlfriend. Mate and I tried to calm him down and he was threatening us and himself. Eventually cops and ambos arrived (prior to tasers and oc spray) and rushed and disabled him with a mattress. I guess it’s a matter of degrees. Easy enough to bowl a fellow in a wheelchair over. I guess I wouldn’t have shot in either case but I wasn’t there. 

    Quoting binnsy on 04 Dec 2021 08:31 AMedited: 04 Dec 2021 10:05 AM

    Big call steelo, saying you wouldn't have shot when someone is coming at you with a knife and wont drop it.. Pretty sure his intention wasn't to carve up the xmas turkey for you.  Bowling some fucker over with a knife in his hand isn't an option and anyone who thinks they could do it without getting that knife stuck between their ribs if that was the guys intention is kidding themselves.  Interesting to hear anyone on here that has been in that position and thought to themselves, I think Ill push this guy over, or better yet Ill get myself a mattress to solve the problem.  A person coming at you with a knife can cover 7 metres in a second, that's not an assumption that is fact.  Dont know about the U.S.A but Section 462a of the Crimes Act is worth a read.  The decision this guy made in a split second is then torn apart by the Coroner over a matter of months.  Not to mention the keyboard experts. 

    "Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife"...Brown v United States (1921)
  • FBUser214
    FBUser214
    1 month
    Quoting steelo on 04 Dec 2021 12:19 AM

    I felt despair at both shootings. Especially poignant was the photo of the young woman with her birthday cake. She was everyone’s sister, daughter or relative. 

    Had a neighbour with a big knife going off in his downstairs unit about an issue with his girlfriend. Mate and I tried to calm him down and he was threatening us and himself. Eventually cops and ambos arrived (prior to tasers and oc spray) and rushed and disabled him with a mattress. I guess it’s a matter of degrees. Easy enough to bowl a fellow in a wheelchair over. I guess I wouldn’t have shot in either case but I wasn’t there. 

    Quoting binnsy on 04 Dec 2021 08:31 AMedited: 04 Dec 2021 10:05 AM

    Big call steelo, saying you wouldn't have shot when someone is coming at you with a knife and wont drop it.. Pretty sure his intention wasn't to carve up the xmas turkey for you.  Bowling some fucker over with a knife in his hand isn't an option and anyone who thinks they could do it without getting that knife stuck between their ribs if that was the guys intention is kidding themselves.  Interesting to hear anyone on here that has been in that position and thought to themselves, I think Ill push this guy over, or better yet Ill get myself a mattress to solve the problem.  A person coming at you with a knife can cover 7 metres in a second, that's not an assumption that is fact.  Dont know about the U.S.A but Section 462a of the Crimes Act is worth a read.  The decision this guy made in a split second is then torn apart by the Coroner over a matter of months.  Not to mention the keyboard experts. 


    I could be wrong because the new paragraph was in the wrong place but I'm pretty sure steelo was talking about not shooting the woman with the knife.
  • FBUser214
    FBUser214
    1 month
    Quoting paulybronco on 03 Dec 2021 04:13 AM

    I  would shoot if put  under the same circumstances. 

    Quoting FBUser214 on 03 Dec 2021 07:05 AMedited: 03 Dec 2021 07:07 AM


    Not surprised at your answer. We need our cops to be a bit smarter if they are going to have a gun.

    Quoting paulybronco on 03 Dec 2021 07:59 AM

    So faced with the same scenario you would do what....? 


    The police radio transmissions made it pretty clear that this young woman had mental health issues. It certainly should have been obvious when the police arrived at the scene.
    She was sipping on her frozen coke and talking to herself, with a fucking big knife in her hand.
    There was no threat to the public at the time, but in the space of 41 seconds the police had confronted her, shouted at her repeatedly to put the knife down, attempted to taser her, capsicum sprayed her and shot her dead.
    I understand that people with mental health issues can be a threat to the public, and public safety should be a priority but there was no immediate threat to the public and the cops went about this completely the wrong way. Their 'Plan A' should have been a 'Plan C' or "Plan D'.
    I would compare her situation to a spooked horse in a yard that needs to be caught, or a dog that has escaped their yard and needs to be caught and returned to their owner before they get run over.
    Build some trust and settle them down and approach slowly and with caution to get a rope on them.
    There was no indication that she wanted to use the knife to harm anybody. Approach slowly, and engage in conversation with a calming tone.  Ask her name. Tell her that some kids had seen her with the knife and it had frightened them. Ask why she had the knife and give her a reason not to need it.
    Ask her parents names and tell her that you wanted to take her home to them.
    Don't need a degree in psychology for this.
    Watching TV you see a lot of hostage situations in movies. The negotiator gets a name and tries to keep them engaged to build a connection with a bit of trust to work towards a desirable result.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 month
    Quoting FBUser214 on 03 Dec 2021 07:05 AMedited: 03 Dec 2021 07:07 AM


    Not surprised at your answer. We need our cops to be a bit smarter if they are going to have a gun.

    Quoting paulybronco on 03 Dec 2021 07:59 AM

    So faced with the same scenario you would do what....? 

    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 08:03 AMedited: 05 Dec 2021 08:08 AM


    The police radio transmissions made it pretty clear that this young woman had mental health issues. It certainly should have been obvious when the police arrived at the scene.
    She was sipping on her frozen coke and talking to herself, with a fucking big knife in her hand.
    There was no threat to the public at the time, but in the space of 41 seconds the police had confronted her, shouted at her repeatedly to put the knife down, attempted to taser her, capsicum sprayed her and shot her dead.
    I understand that people with mental health issues can be a threat to the public, and public safety should be a priority but there was no immediate threat to the public and the cops went about this completely the wrong way. Their 'Plan A' should have been a 'Plan C' or "Plan D'.
    I would compare her situation to a spooked horse in a yard that needs to be caught, or a dog that has escaped their yard and needs to be caught and returned to their owner before they get run over.
    Build some trust and settle them down and approach slowly and with caution to get a rope on them.
    There was no indication that she wanted to use the knife to harm anybody. Approach slowly, and engage in conversation with a calming tone.  Ask her name. Tell her that some kids had seen her with the knife and it had frightened them. Ask why she had the knife and give her a reason not to need it.
    Ask her parents names and tell her that you wanted to take her home to them.
    Don't need a degree in psychology for this.
    Watching TV you see a lot of hostage situations in movies. The negotiator gets a name and tries to keep them engaged to build a connection with a bit of trust to work towards a desirable result.

    Perhaps the agreed facts of the matter may assist you rather than your fairytale watered down version. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 month
    Quoting FBUser214 on 03 Dec 2021 07:05 AMedited: 03 Dec 2021 07:07 AM


    Not surprised at your answer. We need our cops to be a bit smarter if they are going to have a gun.

    Quoting paulybronco on 03 Dec 2021 07:59 AM

    So faced with the same scenario you would do what....? 

    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 08:03 AMedited: 05 Dec 2021 08:08 AM


    The police radio transmissions made it pretty clear that this young woman had mental health issues. It certainly should have been obvious when the police arrived at the scene.
    She was sipping on her frozen coke and talking to herself, with a fucking big knife in her hand.
    There was no threat to the public at the time, but in the space of 41 seconds the police had confronted her, shouted at her repeatedly to put the knife down, attempted to taser her, capsicum sprayed her and shot her dead.
    I understand that people with mental health issues can be a threat to the public, and public safety should be a priority but there was no immediate threat to the public and the cops went about this completely the wrong way. Their 'Plan A' should have been a 'Plan C' or "Plan D'.
    I would compare her situation to a spooked horse in a yard that needs to be caught, or a dog that has escaped their yard and needs to be caught and returned to their owner before they get run over.
    Build some trust and settle them down and approach slowly and with caution to get a rope on them.
    There was no indication that she wanted to use the knife to harm anybody. Approach slowly, and engage in conversation with a calming tone.  Ask her name. Tell her that some kids had seen her with the knife and it had frightened them. Ask why she had the knife and give her a reason not to need it.
    Ask her parents names and tell her that you wanted to take her home to them.
    Don't need a degree in psychology for this.
    Watching TV you see a lot of hostage situations in movies. The negotiator gets a name and tries to keep them engaged to build a connection with a bit of trust to work towards a desirable result.

    Lastly its highly offensive to people or family of people who do suffer mental health issues to use a analogy referring their mental health to that of dogs or horses. Shame on you! 
  • FBUser214
    FBUser214
    1 month
    Quoting paulybronco on 03 Dec 2021 07:59 AM

    So faced with the same scenario you would do what....? 

    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 08:03 AMedited: 05 Dec 2021 08:08 AM


    The police radio transmissions made it pretty clear that this young woman had mental health issues. It certainly should have been obvious when the police arrived at the scene.
    She was sipping on her frozen coke and talking to herself, with a fucking big knife in her hand.
    There was no threat to the public at the time, but in the space of 41 seconds the police had confronted her, shouted at her repeatedly to put the knife down, attempted to taser her, capsicum sprayed her and shot her dead.
    I understand that people with mental health issues can be a threat to the public, and public safety should be a priority but there was no immediate threat to the public and the cops went about this completely the wrong way. Their 'Plan A' should have been a 'Plan C' or "Plan D'.
    I would compare her situation to a spooked horse in a yard that needs to be caught, or a dog that has escaped their yard and needs to be caught and returned to their owner before they get run over.
    Build some trust and settle them down and approach slowly and with caution to get a rope on them.
    There was no indication that she wanted to use the knife to harm anybody. Approach slowly, and engage in conversation with a calming tone.  Ask her name. Tell her that some kids had seen her with the knife and it had frightened them. Ask why she had the knife and give her a reason not to need it.
    Ask her parents names and tell her that you wanted to take her home to them.
    Don't need a degree in psychology for this.
    Watching TV you see a lot of hostage situations in movies. The negotiator gets a name and tries to keep them engaged to build a connection with a bit of trust to work towards a desirable result.

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 10:21 AM

    Lastly its highly offensive to people or family of people who do suffer mental health issues to use a analogy referring their mental health to that of dogs or horses. Shame on you! 


    That is not what I was saying you fucking idiot
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 month
    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 08:03 AMedited: 05 Dec 2021 08:08 AM


    The police radio transmissions made it pretty clear that this young woman had mental health issues. It certainly should have been obvious when the police arrived at the scene.
    She was sipping on her frozen coke and talking to herself, with a fucking big knife in her hand.
    There was no threat to the public at the time, but in the space of 41 seconds the police had confronted her, shouted at her repeatedly to put the knife down, attempted to taser her, capsicum sprayed her and shot her dead.
    I understand that people with mental health issues can be a threat to the public, and public safety should be a priority but there was no immediate threat to the public and the cops went about this completely the wrong way. Their 'Plan A' should have been a 'Plan C' or "Plan D'.
    I would compare her situation to a spooked horse in a yard that needs to be caught, or a dog that has escaped their yard and needs to be caught and returned to their owner before they get run over.
    Build some trust and settle them down and approach slowly and with caution to get a rope on them.
    There was no indication that she wanted to use the knife to harm anybody. Approach slowly, and engage in conversation with a calming tone.  Ask her name. Tell her that some kids had seen her with the knife and it had frightened them. Ask why she had the knife and give her a reason not to need it.
    Ask her parents names and tell her that you wanted to take her home to them.
    Don't need a degree in psychology for this.
    Watching TV you see a lot of hostage situations in movies. The negotiator gets a name and tries to keep them engaged to build a connection with a bit of trust to work towards a desirable result.

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 10:21 AM

    Lastly its highly offensive to people or family of people who do suffer mental health issues to use a analogy referring their mental health to that of dogs or horses. Shame on you! 

    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 10:26 AM


    That is not what I was saying you fucking idiot

    Wow thats very hostile.... these are your words......"The police radio transmissions made it pretty clear that this young woman had mental health issues.I would compare her situation to a spooked horse in a yard that needs to be caught, or a dog that has escaped their yard and needs to be caught and returned to their owner before they get run over.
    Build some trust and settle them down and approach slowly and with caution to get a rope on them."
  • FBUser214
    FBUser214
    1 month
    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 10:21 AM

    Lastly its highly offensive to people or family of people who do suffer mental health issues to use a analogy referring their mental health to that of dogs or horses. Shame on you! 

    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 10:26 AM


    That is not what I was saying you fucking idiot

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 11:06 AM

    Wow thats very hostile.... these are your words......"The police radio transmissions made it pretty clear that this young woman had mental health issues.I would compare her situation to a spooked horse in a yard that needs to be caught, or a dog that has escaped their yard and needs to be caught and returned to their owner before they get run over.

    Build some trust and settle them down and approach slowly and with caution to get a rope on them."


    You have cherry-picked my words and rearranged them.
    I was using the analogy to give some understanding of the anxiety and panic she may have felt, which would trigger actions which would only bring harm to herself. And the remedy should be to get her under control.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 month
    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 10:26 AM


    That is not what I was saying you fucking idiot

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 11:06 AM

    Wow thats very hostile.... these are your words......"The police radio transmissions made it pretty clear that this young woman had mental health issues.I would compare her situation to a spooked horse in a yard that needs to be caught, or a dog that has escaped their yard and needs to be caught and returned to their owner before they get run over.

    Build some trust and settle them down and approach slowly and with caution to get a rope on them."

    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 11:54 AM


    You have cherry-picked my words and rearranged them.
    I was using the analogy to give some understanding of the anxiety and panic she may have felt, which would trigger actions which would only bring harm to herself. And the remedy should be to get her under control.

    very presumptuous of you to read her mind as to what her intentions may have been. The facts show she within 2 mtrs of the copper who shot her while she was advancing with a knife. All this happened in less than 1 minute of the officer arriving. 

  • FBUser214
    FBUser214
    1 month
    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 11:06 AM

    Wow thats very hostile.... these are your words......"The police radio transmissions made it pretty clear that this young woman had mental health issues.I would compare her situation to a spooked horse in a yard that needs to be caught, or a dog that has escaped their yard and needs to be caught and returned to their owner before they get run over.

    Build some trust and settle them down and approach slowly and with caution to get a rope on them."

    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 11:54 AM


    You have cherry-picked my words and rearranged them.
    I was using the analogy to give some understanding of the anxiety and panic she may have felt, which would trigger actions which would only bring harm to herself. And the remedy should be to get her under control.

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 12:10 PM

    very presumptuous of you to read her mind as to what her intentions may have been. The facts show she within 2 mtrs of the copper who shot her while she was advancing with a knife. All this happened in less than 1 minute of the officer arriving. 



    Did you bother to read my 'fairytale watered down version' ?
    41 seconds like I said.
    Did you read the link you posted ? The Coroners Report.
    She was trying to run away when she was capsicum sprayed, then she stumbled and turned towards the cop with the gun.
    She ended up dead because the cops did not handle the situation the right way.
    All 10 of the Coroner's recommendations involved improving mental health awareness and training in intervention for police.
    He concluded that "there are ways of reducing the risk of using lethal force, without unduly compromising police officers’ safety".
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    1 month
    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 11:54 AM


    You have cherry-picked my words and rearranged them.
    I was using the analogy to give some understanding of the anxiety and panic she may have felt, which would trigger actions which would only bring harm to herself. And the remedy should be to get her under control.

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 12:10 PM

    very presumptuous of you to read her mind as to what her intentions may have been. The facts show she within 2 mtrs of the copper who shot her while she was advancing with a knife. All this happened in less than 1 minute of the officer arriving. 


    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 08:04 PMedited: 05 Dec 2021 08:48 PM


    Did you bother to read my 'fairytale watered down version' ?
    41 seconds like I said.
    Did you read the link you posted ? The Coroners Report.
    She was trying to run away when she was capsicum sprayed, then she stumbled and turned towards the cop with the gun.
    She ended up dead because the cops did not handle the situation the right way.
    All 10 of the Coroner's recommendations involved improving mental health awareness and training in intervention for police.
    He concluded that "there are ways of reducing the risk of using lethal force, without unduly compromising police officers’ safety".

    He concluded that "there are ways of reducing the risk of using lethal force, without unduly compromising police officers’ safety".

    There is NO "he" in this coroners report....Her name is Magistrate Elizabeth Ryan, Deputy State Coroner.
    The question i put to you was nothing to do with any findings it revolved around what YOU would have done faced with the same 41 sec available to you. Your reply was somewhat ambitious  
    given the 41sec you had to work with. 


  • FBUser214
    FBUser214
    1 month
    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 12:10 PM

    very presumptuous of you to read her mind as to what her intentions may have been. The facts show she within 2 mtrs of the copper who shot her while she was advancing with a knife. All this happened in less than 1 minute of the officer arriving. 


    Quoting FBUser214 on 05 Dec 2021 08:04 PMedited: 05 Dec 2021 08:48 PM


    Did you bother to read my 'fairytale watered down version' ?
    41 seconds like I said.
    Did you read the link you posted ? The Coroners Report.
    She was trying to run away when she was capsicum sprayed, then she stumbled and turned towards the cop with the gun.
    She ended up dead because the cops did not handle the situation the right way.
    All 10 of the Coroner's recommendations involved improving mental health awareness and training in intervention for police.
    He concluded that "there are ways of reducing the risk of using lethal force, without unduly compromising police officers’ safety".

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Dec 2021 09:44 PM

    He concluded that "there are ways of reducing the risk of using lethal force, without unduly compromising police officers’ safety".


    There is NO "he" in this coroners report....Her name is Magistrate Elizabeth Ryan, Deputy State Coroner.
    The question i put to you was nothing to do with any findings it revolved around what YOU would have done faced with the same 41 sec available to you. Your reply was somewhat ambitious  
    given the 41sec you had to work with. 



    "There is NO "he" in this coroners report....Her name is Magistrate Elizabeth Ryan, Deputy State Coroner."

    Well done Pauly, that is the only thing you have got right so far.
  • GGUser260
    GGUser260
    1 month
    Quote source removed.
    You may be right,
    I may be crazy
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