Should the Government supply the evidence.....

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  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    3 years ago
    Should the Government be forced to supply the medical evidence that they supposedly relay on to lock down states? We have heard the same old tune week after week but not a single person has asked to either see, or test this mysterious "medical advise"...interesting isnt it...
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    3 years ago
    Good question but I suggest sharing it all might only cause more problems. It’s often not “evidence” and there is usually lots of modelling and assessing best case v worst case v compromise. And it’s not all about health but livelihoods and money of course. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    3 years ago
    Quoting fatbat on 26 Jul 2021 08:24 AM

    Good question but I suggest sharing it all might only cause more problems. It’s often not “evidence” and there is usually lots of modelling and assessing best case v worst case v compromise. And it’s not all about health but livelihoods and money of course. 

    I would put it to you thats is more of the former and a lot less of the latter. They way they are predicting at the moment is a little like the weather report every night on TV.
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    3 years ago
    Of course it’s predicting. Nobody has a crystal ball. They rely on the best, credible medical, scientific and modelling advice available to them but it’s never black and white. And what one expert advisor recommends may be disputed by what another expert says. Opening this up to public is gonna cause more trouble, more unrest and probably more senseless protests like we saw over the weekend. Would would be the benefit? 
  • bloodog
    bloodog
    3 years ago
    I was told when the vaccine rate is at 80% they will tell us 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    3 years ago
    I watched Alan Jones tonight on Fox.....very very interesting indeed.
  • Smokey61
    Smokey61
    3 years ago
    Quoting bloodog on 26 Jul 2021 10:07 AM

    I was told when the vaccine rate is at 80% they will tell us 

    Because they know that figure is unattainable.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    3 years ago
    Quoting bloodog on 26 Jul 2021 10:07 AM

    I was told when the vaccine rate is at 80% they will tell us 

    Quoting Smokey61 on 26 Jul 2021 11:18 AM

    Because they know that figure is unattainable.

    Really?    In England So far, more than 46 million people have had a first vaccine dose - nearly 90% of the adult population - and more than 36 million - about 70% of adults - have had both doses.
    And now there are no mask no social distancing no work restrictions etc.....but, they accept that there may be 20-30 deaths per day related to covid. We cant even accept the fact that there is a covid case before we close the state!
  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    3 years ago
    Great stat's there - and so it follows that it would be an absolute disaster if we were to open up due to our VERY LOW vaccination rate.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    3 years ago
    Quoting Wideglider on 26 Jul 2021 11:57 AM

    Great stat's there - and so it follows that it would be an absolute disaster if we were to open up due to our VERY LOW vaccination rate.

    But we are headed down the wrong path in Australia....we will NEVER Eliminate it from the community PERIOD! We cannot continue to lock up half our population when there is so few positive results all the time. Do we just keep locking down, do we keep still refusing to get the jab....if its yes then we deserve everything that comes our way sorry to say.
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    3 years ago
    Quoting Wideglider on 26 Jul 2021 11:57 AM

    Great stat's there - and so it follows that it would be an absolute disaster if we were to open up due to our VERY LOW vaccination rate.

    Quoting paulybronco on 26 Jul 2021 10:26 PM

    But we are headed down the wrong path in Australia....we will NEVER Eliminate it from the community PERIOD! We cannot continue to lock up half our population when there is so few positive results all the time. Do we just keep locking down, do we keep still refusing to get the jab....if its yes then we deserve everything that comes our way sorry to say.

    The whole world in same boat.
    If we stop the lock down now. Watch them all run to get  Vax
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    3 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 26 Jul 2021 11:14 AM

    I watched Alan Jones tonight on Fox.....very very interesting indeed.

    I’ve stopped watching him. His diatribe is always the same. Easy to be an opinionated journalist and make personal criticism of politicians. He’s made a career out of it. Much easier doing that than taking the challenge of being an MP where the decisions and opinions aren’t so easy. He’s run for politics but didn’t make it. But he doesn’t mind mixing with the rich and powerful and counselling corruption. Look at his history and his ethics don’t stand for much 
  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    3 years ago
    Quoting Wideglider on 26 Jul 2021 11:57 AM

    Great stat's there - and so it follows that it would be an absolute disaster if we were to open up due to our VERY LOW vaccination rate.

    Quoting paulybronco on 26 Jul 2021 10:26 PM

    But we are headed down the wrong path in Australia....we will NEVER Eliminate it from the community PERIOD! We cannot continue to lock up half our population when there is so few positive results all the time. Do we just keep locking down, do we keep still refusing to get the jab....if its yes then we deserve everything that comes our way sorry to say.

    All the state & territory premiers know that virus elimination is not what we are trying to achieve.
    USA has over 630,00 killed by the virus, with the previous government's initial virus denial with the inept response they arrived at their situation. 
    'Know your enemy' is the first rule of combat, I know for sure that many people fail to appreciate this & fail to comprehend  exponential growth of this new Delta-strain foe.
    The lockdowns have saved tens, if not hundreds of thousands of lives in Australia, the health professionals & the politicians taking their advice are to be commended for this apparently thankless task! You & I are sitting in a very privileged position now due to the good work of these governments. 
    The UK hospital system were totally overwhelmed in the last year with Covid sickness & death, (another inept leader) are they your role model? India, Indonesia?
    Our vaccination rate is unfortunately one of the lowest in the world, we cannot open up fully until it increases - why are you arguing with yourself about virus elimination? Locking-up half our population - what are you talking about?
    In NSW here, Gladys has been criticised for locking down too late, do you support her here on this decision? Obviously medical professionals & epidemiology experts don't know anything in your opinion, so am interested in your opinion as to the exact moment to trigger a lockdown.
    PS; I see you get your info from Alan Jones on Faux News - wow, excellent choice there....say no more. 


  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    3 years ago
    Quoting Wideglider on 26 Jul 2021 11:57 AM

    Great stat's there - and so it follows that it would be an absolute disaster if we were to open up due to our VERY LOW vaccination rate.

    Quoting paulybronco on 26 Jul 2021 10:26 PM

    But we are headed down the wrong path in Australia....we will NEVER Eliminate it from the community PERIOD! We cannot continue to lock up half our population when there is so few positive results all the time. Do we just keep locking down, do we keep still refusing to get the jab....if its yes then we deserve everything that comes our way sorry to say.

    Quoting Wideglider on 27 Jul 2021 11:29 AMedited: 27 Jul 2021 11:35 AM

    All the state & territory premiers know that virus elimination is not what we are trying to achieve.

    USA has over 630,00 killed by the virus, with the previous government's initial virus denial with the inept response they arrived at their situation. 
    'Know your enemy' is the first rule of combat, I know for sure that many people fail to appreciate this & fail to comprehend  exponential growth of this new Delta-strain foe.
    The lockdowns have saved tens, if not hundreds of thousands of lives in Australia, the health professionals & the politicians taking their advice are to be commended for this apparently thankless task! You & I are sitting in a very privileged position now due to the good work of these governments. 
    The UK hospital system were totally overwhelmed in the last year with Covid sickness & death, (another inept leader) are they your role model? India, Indonesia?
    Our vaccination rate is unfortunately one of the lowest in the world, we cannot open up fully until it increases - why are you arguing with yourself about virus elimination? Locking-up half our population - what are you talking about?
    In NSW here, Gladys has been criticised for locking down too late, do you support her here on this decision? Obviously medical professionals & epidemiology experts don't know anything in your opinion, so am interested in your opinion as to the exact moment to trigger a lockdown.
    PS; I see you get your info from Alan Jones on Faux News - wow, excellent choice there....say no more. 


    Wide Glider i am simply going to ask you sit with your favorite beverage for 12 min and watch Alan ones. By all means fact check him, but more importantly just listen....its interesting
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    3 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 26 Jul 2021 11:14 AM

    I watched Alan Jones tonight on Fox.....very very interesting indeed.

    Quoting fatbat on 27 Jul 2021 05:55 AMedited: 27 Jul 2021 06:03 AM

    I’ve stopped watching him. His diatribe is always the same. Easy to be an opinionated journalist and make personal criticism of politicians. He’s made a career out of it. Much easier doing that than taking the challenge of being an MP where the decisions and opinions aren’t so easy. He’s run for politics but didn’t make it. But he doesn’t mind mixing with the rich and powerful and counselling corruption. Look at his history and his ethics don’t stand for much 

    I am not swayed by his perceived character, perhaps that's why i vote for a party that has the best policy rather than the most popular candidate.
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    3 years ago
    Watched the vid, pretty old.
    To me a poor presentation. As usual Jones cherry picks what aligns with  his view and of course, has a contravesrsial edge to it. 
    When Jones own “expert” started disagreeing with his figures he soon shuffled him off.
    Anyone with the research resources Jones has to hand could soon compile a counter report. 
    Not sure what evidence should/could be released that the public would comprehend on mass. Each State makes its own lockdown decisions, each State will run different modelling, population spread, geography etc will affect outcomes. 
    The lockdowns have kept us safe, we’ve only had about 36 deaths per million of population, UK 1,928.
    I’ll live here thanks. 
    I’m fully vaccinated but have no illusions thinking it’s a saviour, I can still get and spread Covid.
    On a serious note, (this is a bike forum), this last lockdown SA/Vic has really pissed me off, as a mate can’t get to Vic to pick up my latest bike, now that is serious.
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    3 years ago
    Here’s some evidence, 
    Sorry it’s a bit long
    These are basic stats that you can verify yourself.
    Politicians, especially Federal Labour and mainstream media etc are claiming that an increase in our vaccination rate is a way out of lockdowns.
    Personally I don’t get it, consider the fact that our Pollies (well those in power who actually have to make decisions) are risk averse, they don’t want to be considered responsible for any cases let alone deaths.
    So the UK has opened up with a 70% vaccination rate which means their Pollies are accepting
    25,402 new cases yesterday
    127 deaths yesterday
    Their population 66.6 million
    Ours 25.7 million
    So do the math based on per million of population.
    Our Pollies would need to be willing to introduce and get us to accept potentially 
    9,795 cases PER DAY
    48.9 deaths PER DAY
    I don’t believe any of our Pollies nor the Australian public will have the stomach for it. Certainly our media and opposition parties from all sides would have a great time. 
    (Hope I’ve got my sums correct, never passed arithmetic at school)





  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    3 years ago
    Think tank advising the government have come up with an 80% vaccinated figure nationally which includes a 95% rate for over 70's(can't remember exact age), they reckon from there it will be about managing hospitalisations into ICU rather than infection numbers, nobody gets outa here alive.
  • Smokey61
    Smokey61
    3 years ago

    Lockdowns don't correlate with spread. Plenty of countries, even individual U.S. States show that you can be open and have no spike in cases. On the contrary, locking the those who have the rona down with others spreads it through families. It's not an outdoor spreader, it's an indoor spreader. High density areas, higher chance of spread. Lower density areas, little risk of spread unless locked down with others. People being people, some will move around regardless of restrictions, then one new case becomes another whole family.

    Australia's greatest asset is sharing no land borders with other countries. Next is our low population density.

    Vaccinations help lessen the more serious effects of the virus, does little to stop transmission. Masks are unnecessary apart from high density indoor areas.

    Lockdowns are the new speed cameras. If they work, we need more. If they don't work, it's because we need more.

    I'm pro vax, always have been, but I've always advised skipping the first version of anything. Currently I'm waiting, watching, living in Murray Bridge, a town that's had one single case and that was in May 2020, so I'm not feeling a sense of urgency. Looking at getting Moderna when it comes to Oz. Might go AZ, I'm old enough. Pfizer is going for six monthly boosters now. Nah.
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