Online: Hilly

Should the Federal government save Virgin

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  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Should the Federal government save Virgin....
  • B0nes
    B0nes
    4 years ago
    Not sure. If they got bailed out by the government whats stopping them from doing a GM.
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Definitely not. Look at who owns Virgin Aus, between them they have billions. Branson alone is worth around 8 Billion AUD and it seems he has enough sense not to invest further into an airline that isn’t making money. 
    As they say, the way to make a small fortune out of airlines is to start with a large one.
  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    Quoting Ratbob on 20 Apr 2020 12:01 PM

    Definitely not. Look at who owns Virgin Aus, between them they have billions. Branson alone is worth around 8 Billion AUD and it seems he has enough sense not to invest further into an airline that isn’t making money. 

    As they say, the way to make a small fortune out of airlines is to start with a large one.

    Agree Mate..
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    4 years ago
    Then fuckem...let them sinks and have the chinese pick up the tab, or send the invoice for the bailout to Beijing 
  • dicko
    dicko
    4 years ago
    Lets go back to majority Australian government owned ???? Its part of Australian infrastructure( essential) and should be majority owned and operated by taxpayers IMHO.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting dicko on 20 Apr 2020 09:26 PM

    Lets go back to majority Australian government owned ???? Its part of Australian infrastructure( essential) and should be majority owned and operated by taxpayers IMHO.

    Why on earth would you entertain sure a desire. It has 5 billion dollar debt and has rarely returned a profit...last year a whopping 350mil loss. They are also nearly up to replace the fleet...Always remember, if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it never own it!
  • binnsy
    binnsy
    4 years ago
    And they dont pay a cent in tax to the Australian Government.
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    4 years ago
    Aircraft are the biggest polluters on the planet !
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Quoting dicko on 20 Apr 2020 09:26 PM

    Lets go back to majority Australian government owned ???? Its part of Australian infrastructure( essential) and should be majority owned and operated by taxpayers IMHO.

    Quoting paulybronco on 20 Apr 2020 09:45 PM

    Why on earth would you entertain sure a desire. It has 5 billion dollar debt and has rarely returned a profit...last year a whopping 350mil loss. They are also nearly up to replace the fleet...Always remember, if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it never own it!

    Lol, did you rent your jet ski Pauly?
  • inkaporka
    inkaporka
    4 years ago
    Quoting Ratbob on 20 Apr 2020 12:01 PM

    Definitely not. Look at who owns Virgin Aus, between them they have billions. Branson alone is worth around 8 Billion AUD and it seems he has enough sense not to invest further into an airline that isn’t making money. 

    As they say, the way to make a small fortune out of airlines is to start with a large one.

    The only way Virgin should be bailed out by the Government - remembering that we would pay the bill for this through taxation - is for the funds to be converted into equity, i.e. the new entity becomes at least partially owned by the Government. It is vital that Qantas are not allowed to run a monopoly, or the consumer will get taken to the cleaners, Qantas has already received a massive injection of finds to stay operational, some $750m so far, this also should be converted into equity so that taxpayers get some kind of payback eventually. Currently only Qantas shareholders will benefit from keeping Alan Joyce's personal cash-cow afloat.

    It would be untenable to consider a bailout of Virgin under any other terms, given the extent of foreign ownership as many have already pointed out here, but a bailout in exchange for equity would be fair, it would also mean 10,000 -odd employees could at least receive JobKeeper payments until things git going properly again, they are the ones who will suffer the most from any delays in implementation of a rescue plan.
  • dicko
    dicko
    4 years ago
    Quoting dicko on 20 Apr 2020 09:26 PM

    Lets go back to majority Australian government owned ???? Its part of Australian infrastructure( essential) and should be majority owned and operated by taxpayers IMHO.

    Quoting paulybronco on 20 Apr 2020 09:45 PM

    Why on earth would you entertain sure a desire. It has 5 billion dollar debt and has rarely returned a profit...last year a whopping 350mil loss. They are also nearly up to replace the fleet...Always remember, if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it never own it!

    Because although the private enterprise promise is that it will be cheaper/better /more efficient, and competition will make it so, In the end it never happens. The government has been selling Australian assets ( which taxpayers paid for ) with this promise for decades. Not once has it been cheaper or better . Applies to communicatiopns, electricity , water, roads ,postal service railways and airlines. etc.
    Not once has it been cheaper and the government has to pick up the tab in the end anyway .

    Although at the moment we are being told to stay home, in our own states and post codes , but the government wants to support and airline which will allow travel anywhere???
    this is Bullshit.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting dicko on 20 Apr 2020 09:26 PM

    Lets go back to majority Australian government owned ???? Its part of Australian infrastructure( essential) and should be majority owned and operated by taxpayers IMHO.

    Quoting paulybronco on 20 Apr 2020 09:45 PM

    Why on earth would you entertain sure a desire. It has 5 billion dollar debt and has rarely returned a profit...last year a whopping 350mil loss. They are also nearly up to replace the fleet...Always remember, if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it never own it!

    Quoting dicko on 20 Apr 2020 11:29 PMedited: 20 Apr 2020 11:32 PM

    Because although the private enterprise promise is that it will be cheaper/better /more efficient, and competition will make it so, In the end it never happens. The government has been selling Australian assets ( which taxpayers paid for ) with this promise for decades. Not once has it been cheaper or better . Applies to communicatiopns, electricity , water, roads ,postal service railways and airlines. etc.

    Not once has it been cheaper and the government has to pick up the tab in the end anyway .

    Although at the moment we are being told to stay home, in our own states and post codes , but the government wants to support and airline which will allow travel anywhere???
    this is Bullshit.

    Virgin never was or never will be a Australian Asset. Cast your memory back to Holden and the subsidy and the 2.5billion given to keep it going...good money gone this will be the same. Governments govern they dont run businesses. And surprising as it is,  airlines do fly to other states and countries.
  • dicko
    dicko
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 20 Apr 2020 09:45 PM

    Why on earth would you entertain sure a desire. It has 5 billion dollar debt and has rarely returned a profit...last year a whopping 350mil loss. They are also nearly up to replace the fleet...Always remember, if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it never own it!

    Quoting dicko on 20 Apr 2020 11:29 PMedited: 20 Apr 2020 11:32 PM

    Because although the private enterprise promise is that it will be cheaper/better /more efficient, and competition will make it so, In the end it never happens. The government has been selling Australian assets ( which taxpayers paid for ) with this promise for decades. Not once has it been cheaper or better . Applies to communicatiopns, electricity , water, roads ,postal service railways and airlines. etc.

    Not once has it been cheaper and the government has to pick up the tab in the end anyway .

    Although at the moment we are being told to stay home, in our own states and post codes , but the government wants to support and airline which will allow travel anywhere???
    this is Bullshit.

    Quoting paulybronco on 21 Apr 2020 12:30 AM

    Virgin never was or never will be a Australian Asset. Cast your memory back to Holden and the subsidy and the 2.5billion given to keep it going...good money gone this will be the same. Governments govern they dont run businesses. And surprising as it is,  airlines do fly to other states and countries.

    So we need an Australian owned and operated airline???? That way we don't prop up someone else with tax payers money.
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Quoting Ratbob on 20 Apr 2020 12:01 PM

    Definitely not. Look at who owns Virgin Aus, between them they have billions. Branson alone is worth around 8 Billion AUD and it seems he has enough sense not to invest further into an airline that isn’t making money. 

    As they say, the way to make a small fortune out of airlines is to start with a large one.

    Quoting inkaporka on 20 Apr 2020 11:29 PM

    The only way Virgin should be bailed out by the Government - remembering that we would pay the bill for this through taxation - is for the funds to be converted into equity, i.e. the new entity becomes at least partially owned by the Government. It is vital that Qantas are not allowed to run a monopoly, or the consumer will get taken to the cleaners, Qantas has already received a massive injection of finds to stay operational, some $750m so far, this also should be converted into equity so that taxpayers get some kind of payback eventually. Currently only Qantas shareholders will benefit from keeping Alan Joyce's personal cash-cow afloat.

    It would be untenable to consider a bailout of Virgin under any other terms, given the extent of foreign ownership as many have already pointed out here, but a bailout in exchange for equity would be fair, it would also mean 10,000 -odd employees could at least receive JobKeeper payments until things git going properly again, they are the ones who will suffer the most from any delays in implementation of a rescue plan.

    Equity, that’s an interesting notion.
    On other things, Qantas already runs a monopoly on many routes. Operating a fishing business in Indo we frequently visited using Virgin between Adelaide and Denpasar, always full including business class and Virgin pulled the service leaving it to Qantas/Jetstar as the sole carrier. Not even the staff could understand it. There are others. 
    Also to my knowledge, going into Administration does not stop the Jobkeeper payments, ultimately it might but immediately I don’t think so. If it does go the people move to Jobseeker which is 150 a week less, not great but they still get paid.
    As an Adelaide lad, I’m well sick of seeing my taxes prop up the likes of Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Holden and freaking Submarines etc. If a business isn’t profitable it’ll die, if you’re willing to prop up an airline, why not all the restaurants and other small businesses doing it tough, I feel for them more than Virgin who’s chiefs already built a 5 Billion dollar debt before the virus hit. 
    But the equity is interesting.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting dicko on 20 Apr 2020 11:29 PMedited: 20 Apr 2020 11:32 PM

    Because although the private enterprise promise is that it will be cheaper/better /more efficient, and competition will make it so, In the end it never happens. The government has been selling Australian assets ( which taxpayers paid for ) with this promise for decades. Not once has it been cheaper or better . Applies to communicatiopns, electricity , water, roads ,postal service railways and airlines. etc.

    Not once has it been cheaper and the government has to pick up the tab in the end anyway .

    Although at the moment we are being told to stay home, in our own states and post codes , but the government wants to support and airline which will allow travel anywhere???
    this is Bullshit.

    Quoting paulybronco on 21 Apr 2020 12:30 AM

    Virgin never was or never will be a Australian Asset. Cast your memory back to Holden and the subsidy and the 2.5billion given to keep it going...good money gone this will be the same. Governments govern they dont run businesses. And surprising as it is,  airlines do fly to other states and countries.

    Quoting dicko on 21 Apr 2020 08:02 AM

    So we need an Australian owned and operated airline???? That way we don't prop up someone else with tax payers money.

    I thought yo said the government should and now you say they should not.....yes or no?
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Ratbob on 20 Apr 2020 12:01 PM

    Definitely not. Look at who owns Virgin Aus, between them they have billions. Branson alone is worth around 8 Billion AUD and it seems he has enough sense not to invest further into an airline that isn’t making money. 

    As they say, the way to make a small fortune out of airlines is to start with a large one.

    Quoting inkaporka on 20 Apr 2020 11:29 PM

    The only way Virgin should be bailed out by the Government - remembering that we would pay the bill for this through taxation - is for the funds to be converted into equity, i.e. the new entity becomes at least partially owned by the Government. It is vital that Qantas are not allowed to run a monopoly, or the consumer will get taken to the cleaners, Qantas has already received a massive injection of finds to stay operational, some $750m so far, this also should be converted into equity so that taxpayers get some kind of payback eventually. Currently only Qantas shareholders will benefit from keeping Alan Joyce's personal cash-cow afloat.

    It would be untenable to consider a bailout of Virgin under any other terms, given the extent of foreign ownership as many have already pointed out here, but a bailout in exchange for equity would be fair, it would also mean 10,000 -odd employees could at least receive JobKeeper payments until things git going properly again, they are the ones who will suffer the most from any delays in implementation of a rescue plan.

    Quoting Ratbob on 21 Apr 2020 08:43 AM

    Equity, that’s an interesting notion.

    On other things, Qantas already runs a monopoly on many routes. Operating a fishing business in Indo we frequently visited using Virgin between Adelaide and Denpasar, always full including business class and Virgin pulled the service leaving it to Qantas/Jetstar as the sole carrier. Not even the staff could understand it. There are others. 
    Also to my knowledge, going into Administration does not stop the Jobkeeper payments, ultimately it might but immediately I don’t think so. If it does go the people move to Jobseeker which is 150 a week less, not great but they still get paid.
    As an Adelaide lad, I’m well sick of seeing my taxes prop up the likes of Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Holden and freaking Submarines etc. If a business isn’t profitable it’ll die, if you’re willing to prop up an airline, why not all the restaurants and other small businesses doing it tough, I feel for them more than Virgin who’s chiefs already built a 5 Billion dollar debt before the virus hit. 
    But the equity is interesting.

    Agree.
  • beaglebasher
    beaglebasher
    4 years ago
    This is a very complicated situation we find ourselves in. Should we nationalize Virgin completely ? Should we buy equity in the company and hope to sell it back to the market in a few years time? Should we do nothing and let it die a natural death? Should we let the Chinese Vultures get involved?
    One thing is for certain and its Australia needs two carriers . If we dont have two the price of an air ticket will be set by whatever the fuck Alan Joyce  decides it should be.
    The government is throwing 300 Billion dollars at this epidemic .   Maybe 1.4 billion of that would be well spent keeping Virgin and its 10 thousand employees alive.
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Forgot to mention, “most” flights are voluntary, holidays etc. If prices go up for those choosing to fly, why should we, via our taxes, contribute to their lower fares. 
    More people in Australia at some stage buy beer n burgers than take flights, pubs:restaurants/cafes etc employ some 40,000 people.
    Prop up an airline, bugger that, I’m for cheaper beer n burgers.
  • beaglebasher
    beaglebasher
    4 years ago
    Quoting beaglebasher on 21 Apr 2020 09:38 AMedited: 21 Apr 2020 09:42 AM

    This is a very complicated situation we find ourselves in. Should we nationalize Virgin completely ? Should we buy equity in the company and hope to sell it back to the market in a few years time? Should we do nothing and let it die a natural death? Should we let the Chinese Vultures get involved?

    One thing is for certain and its Australia needs two carriers . If we dont have two the price of an air ticket will be set by whatever the fuck Alan Joyce  decides it should be.
    The government is throwing 300 Billion dollars at this epidemic .   Maybe 1.4 billion of that would be well spent keeping Virgin and its 10 thousand employees alive.

    I fukin hate having the last post on the previous page . So I thought I would post it again.
    It took me ages to write it
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