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Torque values

  • Kato
    Kato
    4 years ago

    Does anyone know if torque values provided by manufacturers are to be applied  with or without thread compounds used when torque values are provided .
    There's a tremendous difference when parts are are assembled ( say a drain plug) and an anti sieze compound is used as against no compound used at all .

    Sure youll torque to the correct value but with a anti seize compound installed i would expect the torque value will be far higher ?? - when a anti freeze compund is used 

    HD's service manual doesnt provide any clarity Im  afraid 

    Anyone got any ideas 



  • beaglebasher
    beaglebasher
    4 years ago
    That is definitely a grey area mate. The same tension on a lubed bolt versus a  dry bolt can be over half a turn difference  on the  final position. 
    The amount of anti- seize you apply can  make  a difference. 
    If  the  book stipulates using anti seize  on a bolt and you tension it to the  required tension then theoretically it wouldturn further than a dry bolt but would still be ok. As would the dry bolt..
    Can't give you a specific answer mate, I think it all depends on the situation. 

  • Kato
    Kato
    4 years ago
    Quoting beaglebasher on 13 Apr 2020 06:06 AM

    That is definitely a grey area mate. The same tension on a lubed bolt versus a  dry bolt can be over half a turn difference  on the  final position. 

    The amount of anti- seize you apply can  make  a difference. 
    If  the  book stipulates using anti seize  on a bolt and you tension it to the  required tension then theoretically it wouldturn further than a dry bolt but would still be ok. As would the dry bolt..
    Can't give you a specific answer mate, I think it all depends on the situation. 

    Cheers - I too thought it was a bit of a grey area .
    Ive been told to always assemble for Torque values based on a dry thread by those in the know 
  • Muzza Wa
    Muzza Wa
    4 years ago


    Found these on google:-
    https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=383517

    https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/torque-lubrication-effects-d_1693.html

    This was the most informative link :-

    https://www.antiseize.com/PDFs/torque_specifications.pdf

    Here is the calc :-

    http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/screws/fasteners_intro.cfm


  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    If there is no mention of a lubricant then the torque figure is considered dry. Locktite is not a lube just a locking compound.
    See this example chart for dry or lubed Torque values.


    Torque.jpg
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Yeah it’s a major issue. I’ve stripped a few threads using Harley’s values, last two on a trans case, major work to install timeserts. 
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Quoting Phatty on 13 Apr 2020 07:14 AMedited: 13 Apr 2020 07:17 AM

    If there is no mention of a lubricant then the torque figure is considered dry. Locktite is not a lube just a locking compound.

    See this example chart for dry or lubed Torque values.


    Torque.jpg
    A problem with that kinda chart is it doesn’t specify into what material the bolt is going into.
    I.e. the 5/16 bolt. HD put out a service bulletin saying the spec 24nm wasn’t enough on the trans and specified close to what your sheet says 34nm, I did that and stripped two threads.
    I assume because we have a steel bolt going into an alloy case. 
    Bastards. 
  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    Quoting Phatty on 13 Apr 2020 07:14 AMedited: 13 Apr 2020 07:17 AM

    If there is no mention of a lubricant then the torque figure is considered dry. Locktite is not a lube just a locking compound.

    See this example chart for dry or lubed Torque values.


    Torque.jpg
    Quoting Ratbob on 13 Apr 2020 08:00 AM

    A problem with that kinda chart is it doesn’t specify into what material the bolt is going into.

    I.e. the 5/16 bolt. HD put out a service bulletin saying the spec 24nm wasn’t enough on the trans and specified close to what your sheet says 34nm, I did that and stripped two threads.
    I assume because we have a steel bolt going into an alloy case. 
    Bastards. 

    If your going into Alloy the book I have says reduce the torque value by 25%.
    When I was building V8's I always put 30 weight oil on the head bolts after chasing the threads and cleaning them out.
  • Muzza Wa
    Muzza Wa
    4 years ago
    Thread lockers are interesting and Loctite do say that they act as a lubricant but provide no data of the effect on 'nut factor'.
    If you read Permatex data sheets they tell you that the thread locker acts as a lube in terms of consistency but to torque to the standard dry torque figure.
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