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Tmax Install 2010 RK

  • Kenif
    Kenif
    4 years ago
    Learned and wise colleagues I seek your counsel. 
     
    I have a 2010 RK and fitted with Rush Slip-ons otherwise stock. 
    I am about to fit an Arlen Ness Big Sucker air cleaner and I have managed to procure a Thunder Max ECU. 
    Fitting the air cleaner, no problems but the ECU does present a few.  Bear with me for a detailed description of the problem. 
     
    The T’Max for my series of bike comes with 15mm O2 sensors which is consistent with the 2009 release of my bike.  However, for the 2010-2013 models Harley went to 12mm sensors and moved the sensor position to just above the cats.  Tmax state that you need to use the 15mm sensors as supplied and move the holes to the 2009 position which are closer to the cylinders (heat and flow). 
    So, I now have a number of options: 
    1. Block off 12mm ports on existing pipe and install new 15mm ports in 2009 position. 
    2. Try and find a 2009 header where everything is to T’Max’s spec. (No Cat) 
    3. Try an aftermarket header ($700) however I’m not sure what port size and where they are located. 
    If I was to choose option 1 should I remove the Cat or not? 
    Future plans may include Cam upgrade but not for a while. 
     
    So what do you reckon? 

  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    No cat is good, sensors for the tmax are 18 mm widebands, they need to be close to the ports for the heat same as the narrow band 18mm ones, the 12mm jobbies have in built heaters so they can be any where.
    Any exhaust ship could weld bungs on your headers for you.
    Why you would throw away a perfectly good and superior ECM to fit a tmax is beyond me but you are not alone, my son in law did it with his M8 lowrider as well, still, since you have it then have at it, enjoy.
  • Kenif
    Kenif
    4 years ago
    Grease Monk

    Thanks for taking the time to respond.
    After market tuners are a buggers muddle - so much subjective but little objective.
    I believe that the standard ECU will be able to cope with small changes such as stage 1 but I got a really good deal.

    Looks as though the pipes off sometime this week and find an exhaust mob in Melb somewhere.
    Still unsure if cat in or out.

    Thanks

  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Kenif on 09 Mar 2020 07:54 AM

    Grease Monk

    Thanks for taking the time to respond.
    After market tuners are a buggers muddle - so much subjective but little objective.
    I believe that the standard ECU will be able to cope with small changes such as stage 1 but I got a really good deal.

    Looks as though the pipes off sometime this week and find an exhaust mob in Melb somewhere.
    Still unsure if cat in or out.

    Thanks

    Kenif with respect do you ask yourself who got the good deal here...the seller or the buyer. Regardless Grease Monkey is a smart cookie and knows his stuff
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    4 years ago
    Regardless of the small bike changes... aftermarket ECU are bloody awesome!  Thundermax are top notch and easy as to program.  It’s not just the fueling tweaks for the stage 1 but everything else that makes the bike go so much better.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    I disagree on the good flash tuners, in the hands of someone that has a clue the results are outstanding, people, I have found, believe what is convenient for them to believe, facts be damned.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 10 Mar 2020 12:22 PM

    I disagree on the good flash tuners, in the hands of someone that has a clue the results are outstanding, people, I have found, believe what is convenient for them to believe, facts be damned.

    Its a case of "I reject all reality and substitute my own"
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    4 years ago
    NOTE:  Make sure you get the AutoTune Module as well!  Its worth every cent as its will get the bike pretty close to 100% (obviously a GOOD dyno guy can do say 100%, BUT I am no Rossi so would not be able to tell the difference in the final few %.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    It's not all about the last few percent, although that amount might be a lot more than some believe, what about knock sensing? That's just one feature the speed density ECM has over Alpha N, na, I'm not trying to sway anyone, only mean to put the facts out there, lead a horse to water and all that.
    Old saying, best you know is the best you have had.
    Cheers.
  • Kenif
    Kenif
    4 years ago
    Hey Guys

    Thanks for the input.

    The thing I like about on-line forums is the wide range of opinions you get.

    The Tmax retails for about $1600 however whilst I was sitting on the fence 1 cropped up for $600 so I pulled the trigger.
    I will be fitting my big sucker tonight but will most likely delay the install of the Tmax until I can find some objective evidence.
    I must admit if it was a straight swap over I might risk it but with the pipework required further investigation required.
    Yeah I klnow do research first but blame single malt.

    I will also talk to my mechanic with respect to his opinion.
    Realise that this is my first Harley and all I've done so far is get a roadworthy but hopefully the guys at All American can steer me right - otherwise I'll onsell the Tmax.

    Thanks
  • steelo
    steelo
    4 years ago
    Leave the bike alone.
    No one looks at a 10 year old bike that looks as nice as that and goes "aw doesn't it have a tuner installed?"
    You'll be chasing your tail, problem solving constantly, second guessing your mechanics and anyone you ask for advice and wondering why you're just not getting the enjoyment out of the bike.
    Ride it and save your money
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Kenif, the tmax will work and you already have it, use it by all means, my gripe is when it's held up above all others, it don't belong there, as I said to begin with my son in law has one on his M8 lowrider, he is a switched on sort of lad and the bike runs decent.
    A bit of a story, a bike shop here, under its previous owner sold and recommended tmax to every grunt that came through his door, half this towns military riders have tmaxs, new owner does the same with power vision, most people are not educated on this stuff so if someone with some kind of implied authority on the matter make a convincing case in one direction it's only natural a lot will buy into it.
    Tmax when it came out many years ago was a bloody good thing, nothing has changed there except the OEM ECM is now a better unit than it was back then and has more functionality than the tmax.
    Get rid of the cat and learn what you have brought is what I'd suggest, don't throw away your original ECM, never know what the future holds.
  • Kenif
    Kenif
    4 years ago
    Steelo and Monk

    The bike in my avatar is not mine just lifted off the web as an example of what appeals.
    I will post a photo soon.

    Monk good advice and as stated I will lkeave all alone but might pull the cat out!
    How did you know I was ex-military?

    Cheers
  • Smokey61
    Smokey61
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 11 Mar 2020 03:19 AMedited: 11 Mar 2020 03:20 AM

    Kenif, the tmax will work and you already have it, use it by all means, my gripe is when it's held up above all others, it don't belong there, as I said to begin with my son in law has one on his M8 lowrider, he is a switched on sort of lad and the bike runs decent.

    A bit of a story, a bike shop here, under its previous owner sold and recommended tmax to every grunt that came through his door, half this towns military riders have tmaxs, new owner does the same with power vision, most people are not educated on this stuff so if someone with some kind of implied authority on the matter make a convincing case in one direction it's only natural a lot will buy into it.
    Tmax when it came out many years ago was a bloody good thing, nothing has changed there except the OEM ECM is now a better unit than it was back then and has more functionality than the tmax.
    Get rid of the cat and learn what you have brought is what I'd suggest, don't throw away your original ECM, never know what the future holds.

    I have one of the bikes referred to above, previous owner chewed through a couple of V&H tuners and then put a T max in it.

    I'm taking the T max out and going back to the Harley ECM when the tuner cable kit arrives. Fortunately I got the old ECM with the bike.

    Is there anyone in Townsville you'd recommend to de-cat headers?
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 11 Mar 2020 03:19 AMedited: 11 Mar 2020 03:20 AM

    Kenif, the tmax will work and you already have it, use it by all means, my gripe is when it's held up above all others, it don't belong there, as I said to begin with my son in law has one on his M8 lowrider, he is a switched on sort of lad and the bike runs decent.

    A bit of a story, a bike shop here, under its previous owner sold and recommended tmax to every grunt that came through his door, half this towns military riders have tmaxs, new owner does the same with power vision, most people are not educated on this stuff so if someone with some kind of implied authority on the matter make a convincing case in one direction it's only natural a lot will buy into it.
    Tmax when it came out many years ago was a bloody good thing, nothing has changed there except the OEM ECM is now a better unit than it was back then and has more functionality than the tmax.
    Get rid of the cat and learn what you have brought is what I'd suggest, don't throw away your original ECM, never know what the future holds.

    Quoting Smokey61 on 11 Mar 2020 03:57 AMedited: 11 Mar 2020 04:00 AM

    I have one of the bikes referred to above, previous owner chewed through a couple of V&H tuners and then put a T max in it.

    I'm taking the T max out and going back to the Harley ECM when the tuner cable kit arrives. Fortunately I got the old ECM with the bike.

    Is there anyone in Townsville you'd recommend to de-cat headers?

    Do the decat yourself and if you don't have a welder get a decent exhaust shop to weld it for you
  • Baloffski
    Baloffski
    4 years ago
    Removed the cat on my 2012 Glide .
    Is easy, and costs like $20.
    From my memory, which is jaded.
    Remove exhaust.make a cut, like rectangle, where cat is , just get the fucker out. us a face mask, googles, dig out vehicle exhaust joint I took my exhaust in to one and bag up, and dispose.
    call a couple of exhaust joints, for a quote on little job of welding back the little rectangle piece,. put your exhaust back on .. hey no pussy.
    I took exhaust in to vehicle exhaust joint at Mordiallic or near, 20 bucks
    good luck

  • Kenif
    Kenif
    4 years ago
    Okay

    Managed to get the Big Sucker on which reconfirmed that I am no tradey!!!!

    There are a number of youtube clips showing how to remove cat from the window method described above to cutting the exhaust around the seam or my favourite the 25mm spade bit!!!!!

    Good Luck.
  • fikmik
    fikmik
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 06 Mar 2020 08:51 PM

    No cat is good, sensors for the tmax are 18 mm widebands, they need to be close to the ports for the heat same as the narrow band 18mm ones, the 12mm jobbies have in built heaters so they can be any where.

    Any exhaust ship could weld bungs on your headers for you.
    Why you would throw away a perfectly good and superior ECM to fit a tmax is beyond me but you are not alone, my son in law did it with his M8 lowrider as well, still, since you have it then have at it, enjoy.

    Sensor don't have to be close for the heat as they wide-band. Those type of sensors are heating up them self.
    Also you dont need catalyst at all. If you want to have best result with your bike buy full exhaust system.
    Another solution is buy good head pipes or de-cat stock one plus 4' or 4.5' mufflers.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 06 Mar 2020 08:51 PM

    No cat is good, sensors for the tmax are 18 mm widebands, they need to be close to the ports for the heat same as the narrow band 18mm ones, the 12mm jobbies have in built heaters so they can be any where.

    Any exhaust ship could weld bungs on your headers for you.
    Why you would throw away a perfectly good and superior ECM to fit a tmax is beyond me but you are not alone, my son in law did it with his M8 lowrider as well, still, since you have it then have at it, enjoy.

    Quoting fikmik on 14 Mar 2020 06:49 AM

    Sensor don't have to be close for the heat as they wide-band. Those type of sensors are heating up them self.
    Also you dont need catalyst at all. If you want to have best result with your bike buy full exhaust system.
    Another solution is buy good head pipes or de-cat stock one plus 4' or 4.5' mufflers.

    Yes your right mate the widebands do have a heater, must of had a brain fart, however good placement suitable to Harley's is still important, every riv nut I've seen in headers that was installed by a tuner is 4-6" from the headers, there are good reasons for that.
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