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  • robots
    robots
    5 years ago
    Quoting robots on 07 May 2019 09:36 AMedited: 07 May 2019 09:59 AM


    How the plugs look

    Winter's coming up

    Quoting Baloffski on 07 May 2019 11:56 AM

    Shit robots if that's not a good, but dam leading question, I don't know. 
    Quite often winter is the spend and get done time, aye.

    Yes, spend spend spend
  • Hoodeng
    Hoodeng
    5 years ago
    The plugs will not show much if anything as the issue is showing itself on a dyno pull, you need sustained steady speed for plugs to show a range issue.

    43° is pretty early for 10.5:1 i know you said you were closer to 10.2   .010" on a 4" bore engine is 2cc ,typically we see decking of about between .005" and .010" on late TC engines regardless of capacity. We use mechanical comp as a reference because it is a hard number that is easily calculated by piston manufacturers as a guide of what their piston will make in an engine with know parameters,Note:"With known parameters"  if there is a variance in deck ,chamber volume,gasket thickness from .040" the comp will be different,cranking comp is more relevant to the engine ,so if we see 190psi for arguments sake we know the engine will be sweet to tune if the rest of the parts are compatible,unfortunately this can only be confirmed after the engine has been built, it can't be written on the side of a packet or in a parts listing.

    We can still see the 190psi generated in an engine that has other limitations to its ultimate performance, it may have too small a throttle body for peak torque,it may have an exhaust that will kill performance but look killa ,it may have an ECU with restrictive access to optimal tune,it may have heads that flow well under what is required for a high flat torque number, it may have a cam that does not have range dynamics , as we can see some numbers look good on paper but don't look as good on the brake.

    Sometimes it might only be a tweak of a part or two to make something shine.I know there are a lot of guys that say they don't ride their bikes over 4000rpm so don't need to look in the options that use higher revs,what is missed in this statement is that it is peak torque that we are aiming for ,this is the feel of your bike, in what are perceived as high output engines we see high wide torque bands,this gives the feel of an engine that wants to keep putting in no mater what the revs,high early torque and then sign off in the mid feels exactly like that. Although a bolt in cam and professional tune will suit more people than not.

    Cheers
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 years ago
    Thanks for all the info and education gentlemen, appreciate the input, seems I have to rethink a few things.
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    5 years ago
    Hilly I reckon the tts and other similar tuning modules are good for self tuning of the ve and changing some other not so complex tables. But it’s not easy self tuning ignition timing which becomes an issue when we use some of the cams we use. A few bikes ago I really wanted to tune my bike myself using the tts. It was a 107 top end build with s&s 585 cams. I read the tts manual over and over, and researched the hell out of how to do it. No matter how much I tried I couldn’t get the ignition timing right in some parts of the tune. Funnily enough I also had more issues with running rich than I did lean.  I bit the bullet and had it properly tuned and from then on I always use a pro to do it on a dyno until the developers provide an easy to use ignition timing wizard or similar which I thought Steve cole was working on a while back before focus shifted to the m8, it’s tuning product and his cams 
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 years ago
    Quoting fatbat on 08 May 2019 11:06 AMedited: 08 May 2019 11:07 AM

    Hilly I reckon the tts and other similar tuning modules are good for self tuning of the ve and changing some other not so complex tables. But it’s not easy self tuning ignition timing which becomes an issue when we use some of the cams we use. A few bikes ago I really wanted to tune my bike myself using the tts. It was a 107 top end build with s&s 585 cams. I read the tts manual over and over, and researched the hell out of how to do it. No matter how much I tried I couldn’t get the ignition timing right in some parts of the tune. Funnily enough I also had more issues with running rich than I did lean.  I bit the bullet and had it properly tuned and from then on I always use a pro to do it on a dyno until the developers provide an easy to use ignition timing wizard or similar which I thought Steve cole was working on a while back before focus shifted to the m8, it’s tuning product and his cams 

    I hear what you are saying, I will measure the CCP and see where it's at, had a good chat on the phone yesterday with someone that knows and had a few things explained to me cam wise, to be honest I had not thought my engine fell into the category he spoke of, seems I've underestimated it and under cammed it.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 years ago
    Quoting fatbat on 08 May 2019 11:06 AMedited: 08 May 2019 11:07 AM

    Hilly I reckon the tts and other similar tuning modules are good for self tuning of the ve and changing some other not so complex tables. But it’s not easy self tuning ignition timing which becomes an issue when we use some of the cams we use. A few bikes ago I really wanted to tune my bike myself using the tts. It was a 107 top end build with s&s 585 cams. I read the tts manual over and over, and researched the hell out of how to do it. No matter how much I tried I couldn’t get the ignition timing right in some parts of the tune. Funnily enough I also had more issues with running rich than I did lean.  I bit the bullet and had it properly tuned and from then on I always use a pro to do it on a dyno until the developers provide an easy to use ignition timing wizard or similar which I thought Steve cole was working on a while back before focus shifted to the m8, it’s tuning product and his cams 

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 08 May 2019 09:11 PM

    I hear what you are saying, I will measure the CCP and see where it's at, had a good chat on the phone yesterday with someone that knows and had a few things explained to me cam wise, to be honest I had not thought my engine fell into the category he spoke of, seems I've underestimated it and under cammed it.

    Actually I won't be checking CCP, bloody battery just gave up the ghost, these HD ones are only lasting me about 2 years now, that includes my wideglide that I rode 5 days a week before some smart arse says ride it more, I reckon that's pretty shit.
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    5 years ago
    Bugger. I don't ride as often as you and bikes stay in a colder climate but I use a tender and batteries seem to last longer. I reckon a humid environment stuffs everything quicker. 
    Keep us in the loop about your bike and progress. It's true compression will be interesting.  Would like to here the info about under camming it too if possible 
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 years ago
    198psi front and back, about 8psi higher than what I thought it would be based on the calculator working backwards from the 32H's when they were in it. Seems you can't do it that way, bugga.

    IMG_20190512_112231.jpg
  • speedzter
    speedzter
    5 years ago
    Quoting fatbat on 08 May 2019 11:06 AMedited: 08 May 2019 11:07 AM

    Hilly I reckon the tts and other similar tuning modules are good for self tuning of the ve and changing some other not so complex tables. But it’s not easy self tuning ignition timing which becomes an issue when we use some of the cams we use. A few bikes ago I really wanted to tune my bike myself using the tts. It was a 107 top end build with s&s 585 cams. I read the tts manual over and over, and researched the hell out of how to do it. No matter how much I tried I couldn’t get the ignition timing right in some parts of the tune. Funnily enough I also had more issues with running rich than I did lean.  I bit the bullet and had it properly tuned and from then on I always use a pro to do it on a dyno until the developers provide an easy to use ignition timing wizard or similar which I thought Steve cole was working on a while back before focus shifted to the m8, it’s tuning product and his cams 

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 08 May 2019 09:11 PM

    I hear what you are saying, I will measure the CCP and see where it's at, had a good chat on the phone yesterday with someone that knows and had a few things explained to me cam wise, to be honest I had not thought my engine fell into the category he spoke of, seems I've underestimated it and under cammed it.

    The never ending search for the "holy grail" of Cam choice .
    I know we've seen the TR590xx cams produce decent results in the states, and I'm sure you've seen
    the recent post on HTT with TR625's in a 110 with heads doing 126hp/132tq.
    Not sure how they do it ??
    Another point, Harley's own 117 kit uses the SE259
    So I wouldn't sign off on the Cams just yet.

    The 110 heads really benefit from some intake seat/valve work.
    Some reading I had bookmarked :

  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 years ago
    Thanks mate, I have read that before and I believe for a few years after that was considered the way to go, however I have spoken to the fellow Dewy sold his business to and over time better ways have been found, he was quite candid about it but I'm really not in the game for any major headwork, springs maybe, truly not chasing a max effort, I would just like it to be a happy well tuned beasty, if a different cam set would make it a nicer package all round then I would consider it. Seems I could run a 50 IVC but all the other numbers still come into play.
  • Hoodeng
    Hoodeng
    5 years ago
    I have been thinking of doing a cam write up but it's not a short story that's for sure.

    What we need to consider in cam choice though is the parameters we work in ,that is , Capacity,Compression,Cam and Capability [head flow], these four are joined at the hip.

    Cheers.
  • Daggs
    Daggs
    5 years ago
    and when all those parameters do match up correctly the result is very satisfying!
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 years ago
    Fella's I picked these cams and other parts because of where I wanted the giddyup and what has worked for others in the past, I followed the cam manufacturers recommendation for compression, I traded emails with him, he had nothing to gain by recommending them as I didn't buy the cams from him.
    I gotta emphasise that I'm not unhappy with how it goes. Remember that was a 4th gear run on a day that the shop owner said the numbers would all be lower, I'm told if it was run in 6th it would pull a higher number but again that's not what I'm on about, could it be better? Probably, the tune could be better for sure, I'm open to explore the options but that don't mean I'm off to the shop to buy a heap of new stuff, not without good reason anyway as it's no dog.
  • speedzter
    speedzter
    5 years ago
    The ride to get there is half the fun !
    This and your "new bike" thread have been about the best posts on here for a long time !
    Thanks for putting it out there Hilly :-)

    And Hoody, If you get some time, I'm sure we would all like to read your write up on Cams.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 years ago
    Thanks cobber.
    Second that on the Hoody write up.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 years ago
    Haha, well I'll be buggered, never know what's on the net aye.
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    5 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 03 Jun 2019 01:39 AM

    Haha, well I'll be buggered, never know what's on the net aye.

    I can’t get good internet now so watching videos is a no go until I get home. Are you and your slim in the video, monkey?
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    5 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 03 Jun 2019 01:39 AM

    Haha, well I'll be buggered, never know what's on the net aye.

    Quoting fatbat on 03 Jun 2019 02:00 AMedited: 03 Jun 2019 02:00 AM

    I can’t get good internet now so watching videos is a no go until I get home. Are you and your slim in the video, monkey?

    He walked past my bike, I didn't see me though, my bike result is on top of that list.
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