CVO 110 twin cams, running hot

Topics

CVO 110 twin cams, running hot

2/3

brash
5 years ago

The SE lifters whilst not the best are not helped by the cam profile of the 255 causing premature failure.

255 + SE lifter = shitshow
any other cam + SE lifter = much better lifespan

Wholehog
5 years ago

i know this is a thread for CVO 110s , but i used to run a 103 with SE255 cams and it also ran pretty hot and on occasion would ping under load on a hot day..Swapped the cams for SE 585s with high comp pistons ....cant wipe the smile away now.

Ratbob
5 years ago

Quoting Wholehog on 25 Apr 2019 03:48 AMedited: 25 Apr 2019 03:51 AM
i know this is a thread for CVO 110s , but i used to run a 103 with SE255 cams and it also ran pretty hot and on occasion would ping under load on a hot day..Swapped the cams for SE 585s with high comp pistons ....cant wipe the smile away now.

Bloody excellent thanks Wholehog. Can you recall whether you used 10.2 or 10.5 pistons?

CANCEL that mate, I just read your other post, 10.5 Cheers

paulybronco
5 years ago

Quoting Wholehog on 25 Apr 2019 03:48 AMedited: 25 Apr 2019 03:51 AM
i know this is a thread for CVO 110s , but i used to run a 103 with SE255 cams and it also ran pretty hot and on occasion would ping under load on a hot day..Swapped the cams for SE 585s with high comp pistons ....cant wipe the smile away now.

You running a 2-1 pipe by the look of the graph...?

Ratbob
5 years ago

Quoting Wholehog on 25 Apr 2019 03:48 AMedited: 25 Apr 2019 03:51 AM
i know this is a thread for CVO 110s , but i used to run a 103 with SE255 cams and it also ran pretty hot and on occasion would ping under load on a hot day..Swapped the cams for SE 585s with high comp pistons ....cant wipe the smile away now.

Quoting paulybronco on 25 Apr 2019 08:59 AM
You running a 2-1 pipe by the look of the graph...?

Hi PB, guess you picked up on the early torque dip. He’s running Bassani Road Rage, it’s in the fine print, bottom left. Not uncommon is it and kinda makes sense if the theory’s true that you need back pressure for early torque, maybe that’s why it’s claimed the Supertrapp disc system works across a wider rev band. Ugly buggers though.

Wholehog
5 years ago

Quoting Wholehog on 25 Apr 2019 03:48 AMedited: 25 Apr 2019 03:51 AM
i know this is a thread for CVO 110s , but i used to run a 103 with SE255 cams and it also ran pretty hot and on occasion would ping under load on a hot day..Swapped the cams for SE 585s with high comp pistons ....cant wipe the smile away now.

Quoting paulybronco on 25 Apr 2019 08:59 AM
You running a 2-1 pipe by the look of the graph...?

Yeah...I was wondering about the torque dip on the graph myself...So it’s due to the 2into 1 ?
You know I don’t really feel it when riding though....comes out of the box pretty decent and keeps pulling away thru to where I would normally shift up or back off .

speedzter
5 years ago

A "torque dip" is not just a 2-1 thing.
Any bad, or even just the wrong pipe for the build, or bad tune can show similar issues.

The dip looks worse than it is because of the way Dyno operator started the run.
No one goes WOT at 1500 rpm .

Wholehog
5 years ago

Quoting speedzter on 26 Apr 2019 01:23 AM
A "torque dip" is not just a 2-1 thing.
Any bad, or even just the wrong pipe for the build, or bad tune can show similar issues.

The dip looks worse than it is because of the way Dyno operator started the run.
No one goes WOT at 1500 rpm .

Yeah .....thanks for that.I get what u mean about just nailing from 1500 to.
Cheers

paulybronco
5 years ago

Quoting Wholehog on 25 Apr 2019 03:48 AMedited: 25 Apr 2019 03:51 AM
i know this is a thread for CVO 110s , but i used to run a 103 with SE255 cams and it also ran pretty hot and on occasion would ping under load on a hot day..Swapped the cams for SE 585s with high comp pistons ....cant wipe the smile away now.

Quoting paulybronco on 25 Apr 2019 08:59 AM
You running a 2-1 pipe by the look of the graph...?

Quoting Wholehog on 25 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Yeah...I was wondering about the torque dip on the graph myself...So it’s due to the 2into 1 ?
You know I don’t really feel it when riding though....comes out of the box pretty decent and keeps pulling away thru to where I would normally shift up or back off .

Yes its a trait of the 2-1 pipe and yes you dont really notice it while riding

Hoodeng
5 years ago

Advancing or retarding a cam is usually a work around for something you either already have, or have a tune condition you are trying to get away from.

The 255 cam is application specific , that is ,it was installed in the 110"CVO for specific reasons, one, it has a short close to suit the relatively low comp of the engine being 9.3:1, two, it has little overlap ,this is emission compliance, it does exactly what Harley wanted it to do in the bike, and can be tuned to a pretty reasonable level.
The + - crankshaft sprockets are in cam degrees not crank degrees so a 585 would make 24°/41° with one installed,this is quite a large overlap number for the close point.

I find if you are messing around with cam timing numbers, get the catalogs out and see if a cam has been produced with similar numbers to the ones you come up with,
with the product we deal with pretty much everything has been tried, there is no secret cam out there that will pull 10%+ over everything else ,if it does, all that means is the wrong cam [or combination]was selected in the first place. Also only compare numbers that apply to your model and engine specs, there is no point comparing a Shovel cam to a TC cam and saying ,See, those timing figures do exist!

You have two options if all you are going for is a bolt in ,they are, S&S MR103 and Andrews 57H ,both with later close inlet will bleed a bit of cranking pressure so effect initial torque a little but will give the engine a lot more legs for its low comp .Don't forget the stock springs in a CVO110 will not take over .600".
If you want to wake the thing up a set of 10.5:1 pistons , a cam to suit and a 58 throttle body with a Lushy tune will get your attention.

Another thing about huge early torque figures that sign off after 4k, you have to remember when the engine shows this on a graph the throttle is wide open to get the reading ,this is exactly like having your bike in third gear just above idle and pulling the throttle to the stop and winding out the motor, ask yourself how often you have done this ,i bet you would be in a minority for sure , a well set up and tuned motor makes a very wide torque curve and and should be a pleasure to ride regardless of it's performance level.By the way there is a gear box below your arse,its there for a reason, use it.

Cheers.

ralphski
5 years ago

Quoting Hoodeng on 27 Apr 2019 05:18 AMedited: 27 Apr 2019 05:19 AM
Advancing or retarding a cam is usually a work around for something you either already have, or have a tune condition you are trying to get away from.

The 255 cam is application specific , that is ,it was installed in the 110"CVO for specific reasons, one, it has a short close to suit the relatively low comp of the engine being 9.3:1, two, it has little overlap ,this is emission compliance, it does exactly what Harley wanted it to do in the bike, and can be tuned to a pretty reasonable level.
The + - crankshaft sprockets are in cam degrees not crank degrees so a 585 would make 24°/41° with one installed,this is quite a large overlap number for the close point.

I find if you are messing around with cam timing numbers, get the catalogs out and see if a cam has been produced with similar numbers to the ones you come up with,
with the product we deal with pretty much everything has been tried, there is no secret cam out there that will pull 10%+ over everything else ,if it does, all that means is the wrong cam [or combination]was selected in the first place. Also only compare numbers that apply to your model and engine specs, there is no point comparing a Shovel cam to a TC cam and saying ,See, those timing figures do exist!

You have two options if all you are going for is a bolt in ,they are, S&S MR103 and Andrews 57H ,both with later close inlet will bleed a bit of cranking pressure so effect initial torque a little but will give the engine a lot more legs for its low comp .Don't forget the stock springs in a CVO110 will not take over .600".
If you want to wake the thing up a set of 10.5:1 pistons , a cam to suit and a 58 throttle body with a Lushy tune will get your attention.

Another thing about huge early torque figures that sign off after 4k, you have to remember when the engine shows this on a graph the throttle is wide open to get the reading ,this is exactly like having your bike in third gear just above idle and pulling the throttle to the stop and winding out the motor, ask yourself how often you have done this ,i bet you would be in a minority for sure , a well set up and tuned motor makes a very wide torque curve and and should be a pleasure to ride regardless of it's performance level.By the way there is a gear box below your arse,its there for a reason, use it.

Cheers.

" If you want to wake the thing up a set of 10.5:1 pistons , a cam to suit and a 58 throttle body with a Lushy tune will get your attention."
fckn love my Hoody 110 engine build, SE 263 cam's, SE 10.5 pistons, SE 58mm t/b, heads machined by Hoody. Tuned by Lushy, 134 hp and 122 tq
oh, and my V & H 2 into 1's, NO TORQUE DROP.

Hoodeng
5 years ago

Ralph, the CVO110 is one of my favorite engines to hotrod,, as you know, one of the best bang for buck engines there is.

Cheers.

Ratbob
5 years ago

Quoting Hoodeng on 27 Apr 2019 05:18 AMedited: 27 Apr 2019 05:19 AM
Advancing or retarding a cam is usually a work around for something you either already have, or have a tune condition you are trying to get away from.

The 255 cam is application specific , that is ,it was installed in the 110"CVO for specific reasons, one, it has a short close to suit the relatively low comp of the engine being 9.3:1, two, it has little overlap ,this is emission compliance, it does exactly what Harley wanted it to do in the bike, and can be tuned to a pretty reasonable level.
The + - crankshaft sprockets are in cam degrees not crank degrees so a 585 would make 24°/41° with one installed,this is quite a large overlap number for the close point.

I find if you are messing around with cam timing numbers, get the catalogs out and see if a cam has been produced with similar numbers to the ones you come up with,
with the product we deal with pretty much everything has been tried, there is no secret cam out there that will pull 10%+ over everything else ,if it does, all that means is the wrong cam [or combination]was selected in the first place. Also only compare numbers that apply to your model and engine specs, there is no point comparing a Shovel cam to a TC cam and saying ,See, those timing figures do exist!

You have two options if all you are going for is a bolt in ,they are, S&S MR103 and Andrews 57H ,both with later close inlet will bleed a bit of cranking pressure so effect initial torque a little but will give the engine a lot more legs for its low comp .Don't forget the stock springs in a CVO110 will not take over .600".
If you want to wake the thing up a set of 10.5:1 pistons , a cam to suit and a 58 throttle body with a Lushy tune will get your attention.

Another thing about huge early torque figures that sign off after 4k, you have to remember when the engine shows this on a graph the throttle is wide open to get the reading ,this is exactly like having your bike in third gear just above idle and pulling the throttle to the stop and winding out the motor, ask yourself how often you have done this ,i bet you would be in a minority for sure , a well set up and tuned motor makes a very wide torque curve and and should be a pleasure to ride regardless of it's performance level.By the way there is a gear box below your arse,its there for a reason, use it.

Cheers.

Hi Hoody, a lot of ground to cover there, thanks for responding.
Basically the subject here is 110’s running hot. I’m not looking for much other than cooler running. I’ve ridden bikes with 120 engines, 58 TBs, SE266 cams etc, hate em. I’m no rev head. Lazy torque, that’s me, partly why I bought the CVO.

You mentioned running a +4 degree key with a 585 would result in 24/41. The figures I get, opening then closing are 22 32 / 52 9. Maybe you’re thinking of an S&S585. Here I’ve been discussing the SE585.

As you mentioned, I agree it can be good to compare other cams in a similar/desired opening closing range and why not use them. In conjunction with the Andrews 4 degree key the SE585 is almost identical to an SE204 (not saying that’s a great thing)
585 = 22 32 52 9
204 = 22 34 52 8
But with the SE585 you get .584 lift vs .508 and greater duration.
As you said SE 110 springs can take .600 Lift but I thought the heads were happier closer to .590. Is that correct?

I’m familiar with the 57h but not the MR 103. The exhaust closing at 72 degrees seems late, Could it be a typo?

fatbat
5 years ago

Quoting paulybronco on 25 Apr 2019 08:59 AM
You running a 2-1 pipe by the look of the graph...?

Quoting Wholehog on 25 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Yeah...I was wondering about the torque dip on the graph myself...So it’s due to the 2into 1 ?
You know I don’t really feel it when riding though....comes out of the box pretty decent and keeps pulling away thru to where I would normally shift up or back off .

Quoting paulybronco on 26 Apr 2019 10:45 AM
Yes its a trait of the 2-1 pipe and yes you dont really notice it while riding

How many different 2-1 exhausts have you owned on Harleys?

paulybronco
5 years ago

Quoting Wholehog on 25 Apr 2019 10:52 PM
Yeah...I was wondering about the torque dip on the graph myself...So it’s due to the 2into 1 ?
You know I don’t really feel it when riding though....comes out of the box pretty decent and keeps pulling away thru to where I would normally shift up or back off .

Quoting paulybronco on 26 Apr 2019 10:45 AM
Yes its a trait of the 2-1 pipe and yes you dont really notice it while riding

Quoting fatbat on 27 Apr 2019 11:37 AM
How many different 2-1 exhausts have you owned on Harleys?

What? Two both with different exhausts....

Hoodeng
5 years ago

Yes my mistake mate ,i was quoting the S&S585 and did not think of the SE offering [probably because the S&S are as common as arseholes]!
Yes ,installing the SE585 with +4° gear would work pretty well in a stock 110 ,it will definitely give the motor greater range of torque.
The 110 head flows well after .500"lift and does not plateau or stall at .600"+ lift so you can go with more lift with confidence,one of the reasons they love bigger valves and port work.
The stock head plateaus in flow a lot earlier.
The SE performance offerings change with time and difference between an early stage 4 kit and a late kit have no comparison or interchangeability but are called the same thing, this is Harley's prerogative,they own the product.
The MR103 exhaust in the book is 50/22 so it looks like a misprint in what you saw.
Even if you leave the motor dead stock ,the heat issue and overall performance will be rectified with a visit to old mate.

Cheers.

Grease Monkey
5 years ago

Hoody is buying and fitting an SE 585 with a +4 sprocket into a cvo110 something you would recommend or would you pick another cam?

Nutty
5 years ago

The OP (Ratbob) posted that the bikes had stock headers and slip-ons. Anyone with a heat issues on a Twinkie needs to take three initial steps.
1) Mid-body heat deflectors on Tourers ($20 on eBay)
2) Get rid of the cats (decat or new header)
3) new tune

Just these three mods will make an incredible difference, the cats make a lot of heat in themselves and also stop heat escaping out the pipes. Fattening up the idle fuel settings helps a fair bit too.

Hoodeng
5 years ago

If you are married to a cam change, the S&S MR103 is going to be the closest to a bolt in without changing things too much and will give the engine much more torque range ,,,,but if heat control is really what you wanted and the performance was not that big an issue just get the bike tuned properly and it may just fit what you want.

I would have to say when i first got my stock 96" 07 Wide Glide the thing ran spastic hot in traffic to the point i could not leave my leg near the primary,,there was a plan to hotrod the thing that was a given, but i had the Power vision installed before i started the mods and old mate tuned it ,the difference was staggering in temp and performance for a stocky.

Cheers.

paulybronco
5 years ago

Quoting Nutty on 28 Apr 2019 05:35 AMedited: 28 Apr 2019 05:41 AM
The OP (Ratbob) posted that the bikes had stock headers and slip-ons. Anyone with a heat issues on a Twinkie needs to take three initial steps.
1) Mid-body heat deflectors on Tourers ($20 on eBay)
2) Get rid of the cats (decat or new header)
3) new tune

Just these three mods will make an incredible difference, the cats make a lot of heat in themselves and also stop heat escaping out the pipes. Fattening up the idle fuel settings helps a fair bit too.

I must agree on the decat......the heat reduction was very evident

Topics

2/3

CVO 110 twin cams, running hot

CVO 110 twin cams, running hot

brash

Wholehog

Ratbob

paulybronco

Ratbob

Wholehog

speedzter

Wholehog

paulybronco

Hoodeng

ralphski

Hoodeng

Ratbob

fatbat

paulybronco

Hoodeng

Grease Monkey

Nutty

Hoodeng

paulybronco