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Compensator maybe ?

  • binnsy
    binnsy
    5 years ago
    On start up, the bike, 07 fatboy sometimes sort of sounds like it spins backwards.  I have read about compensators being sometimes what causes this.  Bike has only done 24,000 ish and I haven't pulled it down as yet.  I dont get any other noise from the primary whilst riding.  
    Im sure someone here has had this issues in the past but couldn't really find answers via search.  I believe HD updated the compensators in later models from around 2010 to the SE type but weren't all that much better apparently.  I have read that an extra spring can be added to stock models and works quite well ?? There are also aftermarket like Baker types that are an option too but farrk $$$$
    Anyway any ideas on the best way to go about this ie checking the compensator and replacing and or repairing ?? 
  • Nutty
    Nutty
    5 years ago
    Quoting binnsy on 17 Feb 2019 11:04 AM

    On start up, the bike, 07 fatboy sometimes sort of sounds like it spins backwards.  I have read about compensators being sometimes what causes this.  Bike has only done 24,000 ish and I haven't pulled it down as yet.  I dont get any other noise from the primary whilst riding.  

    Im sure someone here has had this issues in the past but couldn't really find answers via search.  I believe HD updated the compensators in later models from around 2010 to the SE type but weren't all that much better apparently.  I have read that an extra spring can be added to stock models and works quite well ?? There are also aftermarket like Baker types that are an option too but farrk $$$$
    Anyway any ideas on the best way to go about this ie checking the compensator and replacing and or repairing ?? 

    Pull it out and post up some pics, I'll soon tell you whether it simply needs pre-loading or if it's a bin job. Takes 1/2 hour tops to remove a comp. 
    If the hub and wheel are OK it'll just need pre-loading or fresh bell-washers. Pre-load flat washers and spring-bell washers are cheap, you'll need a fresh centre-bolt as well, they're single-use only. Primary cover gasket can usually be re-used. 

    Best test for a loose comp is to run the bike up to 2000rpm in 2nd gear then quickly chop the throttle for a sec before getting back into full throttle. If it clunks, that's a worn comp. 
  • AJ56
    AJ56
    5 years ago
    I run the SE type on my 07 Heritage.  I was sick of the clunk on start up as the Comp hits bottom.  And have never had an issue after that.  I also run a Hayden Hydraulic chain tensioner that make a bit improvement with the chain noise slapping on the upper inner primary case.  The standard tensioner always allowed that to happen.  
  • Nutty
    Nutty
    5 years ago
    Quoting AJ56 on 17 Feb 2019 09:20 PM

    I run the SE type on my 07 Heritage.  I was sick of the clunk on start up as the Comp hits bottom.  And have never had an issue after that.  I also run a Hayden Hydraulic chain tensioner that make a bit improvement with the chain noise slapping on the upper inner primary case.  The standard tensioner always allowed that to happen.  

    There's an easy fix for the OEM tensioner if anyone wants to save a few bob. Stops the chain slap at start-up. 
  • Ken in Cairns
    Ken in Cairns
    5 years ago
    Got a link or more info on the OEM tensioner mode??
    Cheers Ken 
  • binnsy
    binnsy
    5 years ago
    Quoting binnsy on 17 Feb 2019 11:04 AM

    On start up, the bike, 07 fatboy sometimes sort of sounds like it spins backwards.  I have read about compensators being sometimes what causes this.  Bike has only done 24,000 ish and I haven't pulled it down as yet.  I dont get any other noise from the primary whilst riding.  

    Im sure someone here has had this issues in the past but couldn't really find answers via search.  I believe HD updated the compensators in later models from around 2010 to the SE type but weren't all that much better apparently.  I have read that an extra spring can be added to stock models and works quite well ?? There are also aftermarket like Baker types that are an option too but farrk $$$$
    Anyway any ideas on the best way to go about this ie checking the compensator and replacing and or repairing ?? 

    Quoting Nutty on 17 Feb 2019 08:30 PMedited: 17 Feb 2019 09:10 PM

    Pull it out and post up some pics, I'll soon tell you whether it simply needs pre-loading or if it's a bin job. Takes 1/2 hour tops to remove a comp. 

    If the hub and wheel are OK it'll just need pre-loading or fresh bell-washers. Pre-load flat washers and spring-bell washers are cheap, you'll need a fresh centre-bolt as well, they're single-use only. Primary cover gasket can usually be re-used. 

    Best test for a loose comp is to run the bike up to 2000rpm in 2nd gear then quickly chop the throttle for a sec before getting back into full throttle. If it clunks, that's a worn comp. 

    Thanks nutty, will take it for a spin time permitting and try that test, cant say as I've heard any noise coming from there whilst riding though, only seems to be start up.  Mostly when cold I recall too.  Will pull it down when I can and get some pics for you too look at.  Appreciate the help.  I take it the spring bell type washers are a spare part thats available? cant seem to find them anywhere? 
  • binnsy
    binnsy
    5 years ago
    Quoting AJ56 on 17 Feb 2019 09:20 PM

    I run the SE type on my 07 Heritage.  I was sick of the clunk on start up as the Comp hits bottom.  And have never had an issue after that.  I also run a Hayden Hydraulic chain tensioner that make a bit improvement with the chain noise slapping on the upper inner primary case.  The standard tensioner always allowed that to happen.  

    Have heard even the SE types have problems too.  Will put a Hayden tensioner in it when i pull it down, I have heard they are a good bit of kit.  Haven't had a look at the old one yet.  Thanks for the info.  
  • Nutty
    Nutty
    5 years ago
    Quoting Ken in Cairns on 18 Feb 2019 04:03 AMedited: 18 Feb 2019 04:03 AM

    Got a link or more info on the OEM tensioner mode??

    Cheers Ken 

    What happens Ken is that the core shaft on which the spring sits is too-small diameter. This lets the spring kink and snag the tensioner frame. This distorts the spring and the tensioner then doesn't ratchet up. 
    The fix is to machine up a slightly larger-diameter core shaft, pre-load the spring 10mm and it works like it was meant to. Piss easy fix, costs nothing. No link sorry, it's something I sussed out myself. 
    Pete
  • Ken in Cairns
    Ken in Cairns
    5 years ago
    Ok no worries, how big on the shaft did you go roughly?
    Can do the machining no worries. 
    I was under the impression that the stock unit had a habit of over tightening the chain. 
    Cheers Ken 
  • binnsy
    binnsy
    5 years ago
    Anyone had any experience with these eliminator jiggers ??
    https://www.easyr.com.au/evo-industries-comp-sprocket-conv-kit-bt07-10-exc
  • Nutty
    Nutty
    5 years ago
    Quoting Ken in Cairns on 18 Feb 2019 09:49 PMedited: 18 Feb 2019 09:51 PM

    Ok no worries, how big on the shaft did you go roughly?

    Can do the machining no worries. 
    I was under the impression that the stock unit had a habit of over tightening the chain. 
    Cheers Ken 

    It usually does over tighten the chain Ken, because the spring has snagged about 1/2 way down. 
    Halve the number of active coils and you DOUBLE the spring rate, hence it over tightens the chain. 

    If it snags right up the front it decreases the pantograph travel and the chain loosens off. Loose AND tight chains can have the same root cause.  

    Just make a replica shaft about 0.5mm less diameter than the I.D. of the coil. I've used the 6 that I machined up last time or I'd send you one. 
  • binnsy
    binnsy
    5 years ago
    Bit of an update. 
    Pulled the outer primary cover off today. Clean as a whistle in  there. No metal particles on the little magnet on the drain plug and no movement at all in compensator. I suppose that's a good thing. Couldn't even see any wear on the chain tensioner which is a standard harley job. Anyway an inspection of the little cog on the end of the starter raised an eyebrow. I have attached pics of it and the compensator for good measure. My concern is the starter cog jigger. Are the teeth supposed to look like they do? I imagine they need a slight ramp but they Look quite weird and worn. I also tried the old drop it in first gear and jam the front brake on while releasing the clutch. There was no noise at all. Could the starter be the issue with the sort of backlash when starting?  I don't hear any noise from the primary whilst riding. 


    20190223_141313.jpg
    20190223_141318.jpg
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  • steelo
    steelo
    5 years ago
    I think they look standard young Binnsy. Here's one I found on Google
    Nice closeups BTW!


    starter.jpg
  • binnsy
    binnsy
    5 years ago
    Quoting steelo on 23 Feb 2019 04:04 AMedited: 23 Feb 2019 04:05 AM

    I think they look standard young Binnsy. Here's one I found on Google
    Nice closeups BTW!


    starter.jpg
    Yeah thanks mate.  I did the same thing and saw some that looked the same as mine. I was sort of hoping it was worn.  Would've solved the mystery.  
    Closeups taken with Samsung Galaxy S8 ;-) 
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