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Brake line question

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  • BBYHD
    BBYHD
    6 years ago

    Hey all,

    May or may not be a silly question, is there a difference in the bore size of brake lines across Harley ranges, ie sportster vs softail vs touring ?

    Or is it only the end connectors that may be bigger or smaller depending on M/C and caliper setup?

    Thanks for any info.

    Chris

  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    6 years ago
    Quoting BBYHD on 22 Aug 2018 10:05 PM

    Hey all,

    May or may not be a silly question, is there a difference in the bore size of brake lines across Harley ranges, ie sportster vs softail vs touring ?

    Or is it only the end connectors that may be bigger or smaller depending on M/C and caliper setup?

    Thanks for any info.

    Chris

    there is a difference in the brake masters bore sizes but think all use same hose size, just different shapes and lengths. mainly only need to worry if changing handle bars or going to braided hose.
  • BBYHD
    BBYHD
    6 years ago

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Trying to ascertain why my front brake setup is so shit, the only thing not changed is the brake line.  Wasn't sure if it needed a bigger bore if such existed.


  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    6 years ago
    Quoting BBYHD on 23 Aug 2018 09:44 PM

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Trying to ascertain why my front brake setup is so shit, the only thing not changed is the brake line.  Wasn't sure if it needed a bigger bore if such existed.


    what year & what model, is your bike?
  • BBYHD
    BBYHD
    6 years ago

    2008 XL883, 21" spoke wheel

    Replaced the stock 2-piston caliper with a 4-piston Wilwood direct fitment (from research one of the only aftermarket bolt ons that works with a spoke wheel from what I could tell).  Also put on a floating rotor. Had really bad lever travel to the grip, and crappy braking.  Worse than stock.

    Changed out the stock MC for what I am told is a dual disc MC.  Now I have hard AF brake lever, and crappy braking.  Worse than stock.  Brake line fitting changed to suit bigger MC.

    Wasn't sure if the brake line bore was the issue.

    I'm lead to believe the MC is now two sizes up from what it should be not one size up to suit a 4-piston caliper.




  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    6 years ago
    Quoting BBYHD on 23 Aug 2018 11:41 PM

    2008 XL883, 21" spoke wheel

    Replaced the stock 2-piston caliper with a 4-piston Wilwood direct fitment (from research one of the only aftermarket bolt ons that works with a spoke wheel from what I could tell).  Also put on a floating rotor. Had really bad lever travel to the grip, and crappy braking.  Worse than stock.

    Changed out the stock MC for what I am told is a dual disc MC.  Now I have hard AF brake lever, and crappy braking.  Worse than stock.  Brake line fitting changed to suit bigger MC.

    Wasn't sure if the brake line bore was the issue.

    I'm lead to believe the MC is now two sizes up from what it should be not one size up to suit a 4-piston caliper.




    sounds like you need to change your master ( master cylinder on handle bar ) as it must not have enough volume to fill the new 4 piston you are using . try finding a HD master for twin disc's like a XL 1200S as they have twin two piston disc's so close to a 4 piston. good luck with it
  • BBYHD
    BBYHD
    6 years ago

    Thanks I'm hoping that's the problem.

    Went from a MC for a 2 piston, to a MC for an 8 piston (touring bike or Vrod ? 2 x 4 pistons or something) and skipped the correct MC for a 4 piston....

  • tussuck
    tussuck
    6 years ago
    I am surprised your having braking issues with the Stock Sporty setup.  I have an 09 883L and can lock the front wheel up without too much problem.  I also think a 4 pot caliper is way overkill for a sporty as the bike is so light and pulls up sweet as with the factory setup.
    Are really spongey lever that pulls straight to the handlebar grip and that does bugger all stopping is a sign that there is most likely air in the system or the fluid is way too low.  
  • Mr.Mow
    Mr.Mow
    6 years ago
    Quoting BBYHD on 23 Aug 2018 11:41 PM

    2008 XL883, 21" spoke wheel

    Replaced the stock 2-piston caliper with a 4-piston Wilwood direct fitment (from research one of the only aftermarket bolt ons that works with a spoke wheel from what I could tell).  Also put on a floating rotor. Had really bad lever travel to the grip, and crappy braking.  Worse than stock.

    Changed out the stock MC for what I am told is a dual disc MC.  Now I have hard AF brake lever, and crappy braking.  Worse than stock.  Brake line fitting changed to suit bigger MC.

    Wasn't sure if the brake line bore was the issue.

    I'm lead to believe the MC is now two sizes up from what it should be not one size up to suit a 4-piston caliper.




    That wildwood setup is a fuckin disaster, I fell for the 'it bolts right up' as well, never worked as it should.
    The guys I bought it from (traktec?) swore it was me and that noone else had ever had a problem, but digging around it seems they never worked great, fought and fought until they eventually agreed to give me a full refund (also it kept blowing piston seals.)
  • Liam
    Liam
    6 years ago
    All lines are standard. You a only shifting a couple of cc of fluid. Try bleeding your brakes properly. You could have a garden hose on your brakes your still only shifting a couple of cc of fluid. Don't listen to these blokes, I suppose some have already asked for photos.....bloody dick heads.
    HD Mech
  • brucefxdl
    brucefxdl
    6 years ago
    Quoting Liam on 24 Aug 2018 01:52 PM

    All lines are standard. You a only shifting a couple of cc of fluid. Try bleeding your brakes properly. You could have a garden hose on your brakes your still only shifting a couple of cc of fluid. Don't listen to these blokes, I suppose some have already asked for photos.....bloody dick heads.

    HD Mech

    and adding to this,the pressure within a closed hydralic circuit acts equally in all directions/on all surfaces.
    if we reduce the master cylinder diameter we will reduce the amount of hand pressure required at the lever for the same pressure,but lever travel will increase.and the opposite if we reduce the internal fluid capacity of the caliper/cylinder,hand pressure required will increase to perform the same work
    basic hydralics,and 44 years on the tools
  • BBYHD
    BBYHD
    6 years ago
    Quoting BBYHD on 23 Aug 2018 11:41 PM

    2008 XL883, 21" spoke wheel

    Replaced the stock 2-piston caliper with a 4-piston Wilwood direct fitment (from research one of the only aftermarket bolt ons that works with a spoke wheel from what I could tell).  Also put on a floating rotor. Had really bad lever travel to the grip, and crappy braking.  Worse than stock.

    Changed out the stock MC for what I am told is a dual disc MC.  Now I have hard AF brake lever, and crappy braking.  Worse than stock.  Brake line fitting changed to suit bigger MC.

    Wasn't sure if the brake line bore was the issue.

    I'm lead to believe the MC is now two sizes up from what it should be not one size up to suit a 4-piston caliper.




    Quoting Mr.Mow on 24 Aug 2018 03:48 AM

    That wildwood setup is a fuckin disaster, I fell for the 'it bolts right up' as well, never worked as it should.

    The guys I bought it from (traktec?) swore it was me and that noone else had ever had a problem, but digging around it seems they never worked great, fought and fought until they eventually agreed to give me a full refund (also it kept blowing piston seals.)

    Yeah, unfortunately this could well be the case.  Which is surprising, given Wilwood are one of the leading braking manufacturers in the world.

    The main reason I went for the Wilwood, was because from what I understood at the time, it was the only 4-piston replacement caliper that was going to work with spoked 21" wheel narrow-glide.  Most of the other options I looked at including performance machine, the HD XR1200 4-piston and I think even HHI, all stated they dont work with spoked wheel for narrow-glide.

    Live and learn I guess, I picked up the caliper for a reasonable price from VPW, so the cash layout isnt so bad, aside from the labour to date trying to get it to work !!!
  • Neale
    Neale
    6 years ago
    Hi mate.
    I put an 11/16th master cylinder on my  sporty, ( standard HD setup for a twin disc front), from a 9/16th, (HD single disc). 
    I used HD 4 piston calipers and I run a 21" spoked front rim.
    It works well. IMHO the 2 piston calipers that HD put on their 04 up sporties are garbage.
    C&R Engineering at Revesby Sydney set it all up for me. Good shop to deal with.

  • BBYHD
    BBYHD
    6 years ago
    Quoting Neale on 26 Aug 2018 01:47 AM

    Hi mate.

    I put an 11/16th master cylinder on my  sporty, ( standard HD setup for a twin disc front), from a 9/16th, (HD single disc). 
    I used HD 4 piston calipers and I run a 21" spoked front rim.
    It works well. IMHO the 2 piston calipers that HD put on their 04 up sporties are garbage.
    C&R Engineering at Revesby Sydney set it all up for me. Good shop to deal with.

    Thanks for the info, appreciate it!

    I think I'm going to sack the POS Wilwood and chuck on Vrod brembo.
    She'll be going to a shop down here in Melbourne with a good rep to fix it all/make it all work for me (not the same shop who did the original work).

    Stock 2-pistons are definitely rubbish.
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    6 years ago
    Quoting Neale on 26 Aug 2018 01:47 AM

    Hi mate.

    I put an 11/16th master cylinder on my  sporty, ( standard HD setup for a twin disc front), from a 9/16th, (HD single disc). 
    I used HD 4 piston calipers and I run a 21" spoked front rim.
    It works well. IMHO the 2 piston calipers that HD put on their 04 up sporties are garbage.
    C&R Engineering at Revesby Sydney set it all up for me. Good shop to deal with.

    Quoting BBYHD on 26 Aug 2018 02:46 AM

    Thanks for the info, appreciate it!

    I think I'm going to sack the POS Wilwood and chuck on Vrod brembo.
    She'll be going to a shop down here in Melbourne with a good rep to fix it all/make it all work for me (not the same shop who did the original work).

    Stock 2-pistons are definitely rubbish.

    good move!!
    good luck & if you find time post end result.

  • BBYHD
    BBYHD
    6 years ago

    OK so here's the follow-up story:

    Issue 1: Wilwood caliper is shit.  Flexes too much.

    Issue 2: The workshop who first did the brake work did a complete naff job.  Caliper was grossly mis-aligned on the rotor. To the point that it was pushing the floating rotor off straight.  Spacers they made for fitting the caliper were made of aluminium, which had deformed.  Spacers weren't even identical size, meaning, one was torqued more than the other when fastened.  Didn't space with washers.  Used stainless steel bolts to mount caliper.  11/16 Dual disc M/C was oversize.  And needed to be rebuilt, as the piston wasn't fully retracting, but wasnt.  Due to caliper mis-alignment, the caliper housing was CONSTANTLY fouling the rotor.  Its actually embarrassing and offensive the work they did.

    Fix: Went to another workshop.  Fitted new HHI 6-piston.  Fitted 9/16 M/C.  Fitted new brake-line and better quality fittings.  Proper spacing and alignment of caliper on rotor.  Made sure it worked as expected.

    Result: A performance brake setup that works better than factory, as it should, not worse.

    What I learnt: Wilwood calipers are shit.  Rosnar Motorcycles do great work, above and beyond expectation.



    20181022_142825.jpg
  • steelo
    steelo
    6 years ago
    Good story of your experience and endorsement of Rosnar BB
  • John.R
    John.R
    6 years ago
    Nice setup BBYHD.
    Got any plans for that dual disc MC? I could take if off you hands..
  • BBYHD
    BBYHD
    6 years ago
    Quoting John.R on 22 Oct 2018 10:56 PM

    Nice setup BBYHD.

    Got any plans for that dual disc MC? I could take if off you hands..

    Thanks, and it works a treat.
    The Dual Disc M/C was junk, so i didn't bother about bringing it home with me from the workshop who said it was basically throw away.  I didnt know the history of it, or how long it had been sitting around corroding for before being fitted to my bike.
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    6 years ago
    Quoting BBYHD on 22 Oct 2018 09:52 PMedited: 22 Oct 2018 09:55 PM

    OK so here's the follow-up story:

    Issue 1: Wilwood caliper is shit.  Flexes too much.

    Issue 2: The workshop who first did the brake work did a complete naff job.  Caliper was grossly mis-aligned on the rotor. To the point that it was pushing the floating rotor off straight.  Spacers they made for fitting the caliper were made of aluminium, which had deformed.  Spacers weren't even identical size, meaning, one was torqued more than the other when fastened.  Didn't space with washers.  Used stainless steel bolts to mount caliper.  11/16 Dual disc M/C was oversize.  And needed to be rebuilt, as the piston wasn't fully retracting, but wasnt.  Due to caliper mis-alignment, the caliper housing was CONSTANTLY fouling the rotor.  Its actually embarrassing and offensive the work they did.

    Fix: Went to another workshop.  Fitted new HHI 6-piston.  Fitted 9/16 M/C.  Fitted new brake-line and better quality fittings.  Proper spacing and alignment of caliper on rotor.  Made sure it worked as expected.

    Result: A performance brake setup that works better than factory, as it should, not worse.

    What I learnt: Wilwood calipers are shit.  Rosnar Motorcycles do great work, above and beyond expectation.



    20181022_142825.jpg
    Good story BBYHD, look's nice.
    My old Carb Buell has a 6 piston caliper, looks about same size as that but not polished or chrome, I think the Buell's disc could be larger diam. the Buell has a factory race brace. I would expect one brake like that one side, could possibly get fork leg's to walk under hard braking. you can check if it's possible for your forks to walk, by turning front wheel to full lock. then take hold of front of tyre and rear of front tyre , push the front of wheel , pull the back of wheel at same time, watch your fork legs to see if they walk. if they do a good fork brace would make a difference.
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