Sumping explained......sort of

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  • friday
    friday
    6 years ago
    what make car ?

  • WideglidingNZ
    WideglidingNZ
    6 years ago
    OldFarter Do me/us a favour and don't by a Harley thanks
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    6 years ago
    Could it be that we consumers are being more educated with the world at our finger tips and Mr Google our knowledgeable friend. Harley have been having problems with motors for a long times with anything from twisted cranks thru to compensator and now sumping problems. In the 80s i worked in the bike industry and we gave the HD franchise back to Frasers because of the ongoing issues. People still bought HD back then even though they were around 1.5 times the price of a Jap bike. My bike has had countless issues but would i swap it for something else....Hell no! Harley do need to lift their game and do more R&D on these new motors before they send them out to the buying public. I understand fully people who dont want to spend their hard earned on a product that they have little confidence in and that  blame lays entirely with the factory .
  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    6 years ago
    Pauly, yes the blame does lay with R&D & the factory but honestly the attitude of some dealers with warrantee is disgusting/disrespectful. But I must say many other bike & car makes do exactly the same shit when probs occur after sale (like stating "there is no problem - first time we've heard of it").  
  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    Exactly!
  • 98fxstc
    98fxstc
    6 years ago

    If the MoCo had a bit more concern for their customers and their reputation they would make another video and tell the M8 owners what to look out for.

    They seem happy to take a gamble and keep replacing oil pumps and engines.

    My understanding is that machining and manufacturing tolerances are getting looser and looser.

    In respect of the oil pump, some can cope, some cannot; some can cope with performance upgrades and some cannot.

    I would think the way to go would be to come up with an improved design for the oil pump and circulate a Service Bulletin to M8 owners through the Dealers advising owners what to look for.

    Might help with their reputation a little bit.

    Here are a couple of screenshots from the US HDForums.

    If I recall Heatwave had a stage 4 upgrade to his new M8 and when the oil pump failed and the engine trashed, an equivalent engine was fitted, and so on.

    The other guy has had a stock 107 replaced multiple times.




  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    Do you  know those guys personally ? Can you vouch for them ? Have you rang their HD dealers to confirm ? Have you seen their  bikes ,receipts,work orders ?
    The rate of failure here in OZ is 1.2% , so that's relevant here and probably there too.
    Every tech I have talked to here in Oz has never had one sump.
  • 98fxstc
    98fxstc
    6 years ago
    Quoting R2D2 on 27 Jul 2018 05:59 AM

    Do you  know those guys personally ? Can you vouch for them ? Have you rang their HD dealers to confirm ? Have you seen their  bikes ,receipts,work orders ?

    The rate of failure here in OZ is 1.2% , so that's relevant here and probably there too.
    Every tech I have talked to here in Oz has never had one sump.

    Do I know them personally ?
    Fuck off !!

    I spend more time on the US forums than I do here.
    That is the way to learn; from guys who have been riding and working on Harleys since they were old enough to walk.
    Heatwave has been around the forums for a couple of years and I have followed some of his builds.
    ( He doesn't do them himself, he pays others who have the right reputation in the game)

    Many here, and you appear to be one of them, spend their spare time at the Dealers soaking up the bullshit and paying for Screamin' Eagle upgrades or buying the new models.

    How are you ever going to learn anything when you are not able to broaden your horizons ?
  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    Yea I've been to the states a few times lately actually ,how about you.
    So it's me who needs to broaden my horizon?
    Seriously?I have had communication with the guy in the video ,you?
    He's a stand up guy.
  • 98fxstc
    98fxstc
    6 years ago
    Quoting R2D2 on 27 Jul 2018 06:26 AMedited: 27 Jul 2018 06:32 AM

    Yea I've been to the states a few times lately actually ,how about you.

    So it's me who needs to broaden my horizon?
    Seriously?I have had communication with the guy in the video ,you?
    He's a stand up guy.

    Not interested in talking to the guy in the video.
    He is peddling the wrong message.
    You broaden your horizons by talking to Dealer techs in the States, as well as here.
    Good for you !!
  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    6 years ago
    Quoting R2D2 on 27 Jul 2018 05:59 AM

    Do you  know those guys personally ? Can you vouch for them ? Have you rang their HD dealers to confirm ? Have you seen their  bikes ,receipts,work orders ?

    The rate of failure here in OZ is 1.2% , so that's relevant here and probably there too.
    Every tech I have talked to here in Oz has never had one sump.

    A failure rate of 1.2% in Aust? That's a very specific figure, let me guess - that figure was given by HD, the very same people who have stuck their head in the sand & lied to their loyal (and dwindling) customer base.
    A positive that comes out of all this is that S&S have again shown some quality engineering solutions.
  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    Quoting R2D2 on 27 Jul 2018 06:26 AMedited: 27 Jul 2018 06:32 AM

    Yea I've been to the states a few times lately actually ,how about you.

    So it's me who needs to broaden my horizon?
    Seriously?I have had communication with the guy in the video ,you?
    He's a stand up guy.

    Quoting 98fxstc on 27 Jul 2018 06:44 AM

    Not interested in talking to the guy in the video.
    He is peddling the wrong message.
    You broaden your horizons by talking to Dealer techs in the States, as well as here.
    Good for you !!

    I have been in communication with the guy on the video, he's a really decent dude ,he was prepared to put his face and name to that video, he's no punk , are the people claiming issues on the US forums doing that.That dude staked his rep on that video and that's a big thing in the states
    Most of the ones I have seen post up on the US forum about sumping post up  then get laughed off and never post again. Or get caught out or both
    It's the internet right mostly fake news.
    Yea there is an issue but it's blown way out of proportion.
  • 98fxstc
    98fxstc
    6 years ago
    There is an issue but it is blown out of proportion ?
    Have a look at harleytechtalk.
    The problems with the M8 have accumulated the second highest number of posts behind the joke thread which has been going since the very early days of the site.
    Maybe the M8  thread should be incorporated into the joke thread.
  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    Yep blown completely out of proportion.
    HTT that's a joke site right
    It's the internet right IRL it's a minority

  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    6 years ago
    In regards to the known fact of oil transferring from transmission to primary, this HD video guy suggests that maybe the customers bikes primary was initially overfilled so it only appeared that oil had transferred  - FFS, does he think everyone is just stupid? Is he related to Trump? It's cringeworthy. Does HD endorse this stuff coming from him?
  • 98fxstc
    98fxstc
    6 years ago
    Quoting Wideglider on 27 Jul 2018 07:29 AM

    In regards to the known fact of oil transferring from transmission to primary, this HD video guy suggests that maybe the customers bikes primary was initially overfilled so it only appeared that oil had transferred  - FFS, does he think everyone is just stupid? Is he related to Trump? It's cringeworthy. Does HD endorse this stuff coming from him?

    Too right.
    Those on here who do their own maintenance will know that the primary can't be filled past the bottom of the opening.
    Most M8 owners wouldn't know that.
  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    Yea you got me. 
  • Hudson76
    Hudson76
    6 years ago
    Yeah, a work mate of mine has a 2018 Street Glide with stage 1 M8, had no issues at all.

    Yet he has told me a 3 of his riding buddies with late 2017 and 2018 model, 2x Street glides and a Road glide (from memory) and they have all either had their original engine totally rebuilt by HD or replaced with a new engine. (all 3 engines were "only stage 1")

    He even mentioned that one bloke he was talking to about his wife's Tri Glide, said that his own Tri Glide, had engine issues also, HD were rebuilding it for him and he had paid the extra to kick it up to a stage 4, with the bigger oil pump etc.

    I know these are only a few examples, but when you are dropping that amount of coin on a bike I would expect many many happy kilometers before any such issues would arise, if at all. I suppose it's a bit like the early Twin Cams with the cam tensioner issues.

    It just seems off putting when quality with HD seems to be going the wrong way.

    All I can say is I'm glad I bought my V Rod when I did and in 2 or 3 years when I'm in the market for a touring type bike..... I doubt it will be a HD.
  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    More hearsay , that's the issue here.
    BS as far as I'm concerned mate.
    Many guys on the US forums said they sumped then got caught out and have never posted again, shut their profiles down most of them
    Some clown here quoted the HTT site as reputable , that site was where a guy said he had oil migration on a Softail FFS , rooster or something was his handle.Half a dozen guys defended him too but someone pointed out the cable clutch on the Softails , they all jumped on the bandwagon and looked fuckin' stoopid.
    The Softails have a cable clutch so it couldn't physically transfer ,so this is how it all looks to me most of it is jealousy of the new models , same happened when the Twinky was released.
    I know and get there's issues but for me they are a tiny amount of bikes having the sumping issues and a few more had the transfer deal but most of it is BS hearsay to me just more fake news on the internet.
    Just think whatever you need to think guys.
  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    Done all that man , 2 and a half months of investigation of dealerships all over QLD seaboard , I know what's the deal man., 
    These guys can believe whatever they want I've actually rang most HD shops and visited them, watched a few HD tech mates look it all up inside the HD web and visited the US as well,was going there anyway.
    I have a Softail  and there's not one gone down to sumping in the world according to HD , so I know I'm good, but wait someone will report one BS one sooner or later
    It's a believe what you need to believe thing , I've done the math.
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