I’m saying that if Harley wanted to, it could easily absorb the R&D costs of the LiveWire via other models and put it up for sale in Australia for around $18,000 + ORC.
Can i ask how you came up with that number as HD has not released the price for the livewire yet?
Well, as I see it, Zero showed it is possible to build a halfway decent electric bike for $12k + ORC.
When the Zero was introduced in Australia (2010) the price was $12,990 +ORC.
Not a bad looking bike, either - and not a world away from the LiveWire, although the LiveWire seems to be of much higher quality and bigger too.
Still, it is not $20,000.00 worth of more quality and further to that, Harley have a mountain of other bikes with which to absorb R&D costs whereas for Zero, this was it. One bike, and they still managed to design, build, ship and put it on the road for what will be a third of the price of a LiveWire.
So what you might be saying is it"could" be cheaper than what I'm thinking ?
Well i think there are a few flaws in your reasoning . Zero in Aust were selling for $17k and that was the cheapest. And as they closed Australia sales because they never sold many shows that to be viable in Aust you need to sell above the 17k to make a quid
I get how you arrived at your conclusion but don't agree with your claims of Zero being a "Comparable" manufacturer. Zero has to jump many a hurdle to get recognised in any market as they are a relative unknown compared to HD. The product they offer would never sell at a premium price because people would not be prepared to take the chance of an expensive failure. As for the "hard work already done" not sure what your referring to as every manufacturer , cars and bikes , patents the clever bits of technology involved in their products or brand names including HD. This stops competitors from letting say Zero do all the hard yards then stepping in and stealing their ideas. And for the record i have seen a display Livewire and a Zero in a carpark , their is NO comparison with the quality of the product. Zero looks very much like a built in China/India plastic bike the livewire looks substantial. The Zero owner was in fact an older man who loved the bike using it to commute to the local shops .
I have seen a Zero "in the flesh" but never ridden one. I see how you can say that it "looks built in China" but I honestly think it looks a bit more like a low end Jap bike like the Grom. Yes, it is not an "expensive" bike in look and feel but I didn't get the impression that it was badly built. The one I saw was only recently and it was dusty and well used. It looked like a regular commuter to me.
I have never seen a LiveWire in real life and therefore defer to your experience. That said, I have no doubt that the quality will be far superior to that of the Zero. I would expect that, with the manufacturing facilities, experience and budget of HD. I understand patents perfectly well and I don't suggest that HD have "copied" Zero in the sense of stealing intellectual property to make it.
All I am saying is that someone has to take the step of putting the idea of an electric bike out there and making it palatable to the masses. Zero did that first (at least, elsewhere in the world) and it must be said that the LiveWire is not a world away from the Zero in looks and concept. It is not as though, out of the blue, Harley put forward an electric bike. I am not sparky or motorcycle mechanic but the LiveWire does not strike me as an "innovative step" up from the Zero. It is just better quality, made by a leading manufacturer.
The market for both the Zero and the LiveWire (had the Zero continued in Australia) would have had significant overlap. I think the current buyers of these types of bike (especially when they look so similar and both are essentially "pioneers on the market") are technology enthusiasts first, brand loyalists second. In due course, we will all be buyers of this type of bike and once that happens, existing client base and branding will regain their priority. I have no doubt that in 5 to 8 years time, there will be an entire range of electric motorcycles from all different types of manufacturers and that will include those that mimic in looks the current touring and softail line. However, we are in the early days right now and this is an utterly golden opportunity for HD to attract new, young clients that it would otherwise never had a hope in hell of attracting.
A massive sticker price will ruin that opportunity.
For me, the point is this - Zero have come out of nowhere, with limited resources, no existing motorcycle "goodwill" and pushing an entirely new product and have put it on the market for a very reasonable price in those circumstances. HD, in the past few months, have proven they can churn out all sorts of different (petrol) bikes seemingly at will. Their only problem with those at the moment is a startling lack of originality and instead "coasting on the name alone". Also price.
There is utterly no reason why HD cannot make the LiveWire at a reasonable price point, if Zero can do it, even if their quality is much higher.
What I would love to see happen is the LiveWire being sold at a reasonable price and to see a bucketload of them on the street. That in turn leads to more Harley customers, a shift in the thinking from "the 1%er brand" to "cutting edge motorcycling" and that puts more money in the HD coffers. That in turn lets them build many more motorcycles for many more years and I can keep buying them!
You cannot tell me that HD could not afford to take a short term financial hit on one of their models (particularly a unique one) to generate long term sales and a new client base. They have so many product lines that if they marked up their tee-shirts by 5% and their stubby holders by 10% it would make a significant difference to recovering any losses associated with selling the Zero at cost price rather than the usual premium price.
I really like HD but the future as it is currently laid out (old traditions, high prices) looks pretty grim to me and the strategy now of copying KTM and the Vmax (and yes, the Zero)at least in looks and concept to churn out similar bikes at astronomical prices does not inspire much confidence.
I will have an absolute guess $29990 ride away (silently)
*boom tish*
