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The 2019 HD’s

7/11
  • STEAMER
    STEAMER
    6 years ago
    The 2019, Street Glide Special, Road Glide Special & Road King Special all come with the M8- 114ci engine.  Where as the standard versions have the M8 -  107ci.
  • Phelics
    Phelics
    6 years ago
    Quoting Jayman6 on 22 Aug 2018 07:37 AM

    Not sure why you’d use a premium, unique & first-to-market offering as a loss leader. 

    I think you answered your own question further down with regard to its niche appeal to early adopters, as opposed to actual HD fans. 
    Can’t see any business critical reason to flog these cheap myself.

    Quoting Phelics on 22 Aug 2018 09:37 AM

    I see your point. 

    I guess from my perspective, I think there’s a real opportunity to use this “first past the post, up to the minute” innovative product which LiveWire has the potential to be in order to appeal to Millenials and the “new type” of customer that Harley is chasing. 

    Making the price of entry so high that only the old school of biker (55+ with mortgage paid and kids gone) can afford it seems a pity to me. 

    I appreciate that Harley no doubt have a clever global marketing and branding team who have a world of expertise, experience and statistics at their fingertips. My input is not required!!

    I just wish that a bunch of 20 - 30 year old hipsters, vegans, millenials and other newbies could afford the product and by being able to vote with their wallets, bring new life to Harley. 

    They might well buy a $19,000 LiveWire and then upgrade later. A first Harley historically almost never ends up being the last Harley. 

    Seeing them actually being ridden on the street, and within financial reach, is what is needed. 

    Making a new Scout Bobber, Scrambler or adventure bike clone with a 30% markup based just on the name is not the answer, I think, and nor is making the one truly exiting and innovative product so expensive and exclusive that the only people who can afford are those that don’t want it. 

    Quoting Mr.Mow on 22 Aug 2018 11:46 AM

    Maybe its the circles I move in.. but all the 20 something dudes I know are thrashing about on ironheads and shovels, chopped and flaked, rusty and beaten to fck, theyre dressed in dirty denim, long hair, beards, moustaches and tattoos, rock n roll and beer. Generally they want it super custom and something they can wrench on.

    They have absolutely zero interest in this stuff, they May just may be rocking a recent Dyna or sporty as a trouble free backup.

    As for the rest of the 20 somethings I know, they have zero interest in motorcycles in general, or cars or anything really.

    “They have absolutely zero interest in this stuff, they may just may be rocking a recent Dyna or sporty as a trouble free backup.
    As for the rest of the 20 somethings I know, they have zero interest in motorcycles in general, or cars or anything really.”

    That’s it in a nutshell, though, isn’t it? The ones that already have an interest in Harley have little to no interest in the LiveWire and those that might have an interest will be hard to get, especially if it is overpriced. 

    It’s the distinction between those that want a Harley because it’s a Harley versus those who want a motorcycle (and the motorcycle they select just happens to be a Harley because it is the only, or best, motorcycle in that class - which is what the LiveWire will be, for a time). 

    It’s a real pickle for the MoCo. 

    Oh well, their problem, I guess. 

    There’s no shortage of “old” Harleys out there and I for one love mine. I just wish my kids shared the enthusiasm, but they don’t. It’s not from a lack of trying on my part. 

    The next few years will be really interesting to watch. The issue is that I think a lot of people will be watching but few of them will be buying. 
  • awaba
    awaba
    6 years ago
    I was in Harley Heaven (City) last week,there was a quite a few second hand twinkies down the back,
    the front and sides of the showroom was filled with unsold 18"s,
    Now they will have a heap of 19's rocking up soon.
    Perhaps the motor company might want to reduce their pricing across the board
    I don't mean a pissy 1K,they could try 5K on the big twins,they are out pricing themselves
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    6 years ago
    Premium price i agree, guess they are trying to recoup some R&D investment perhaps
  • Jayman6
    Jayman6
    6 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 23 Aug 2018 01:39 AM

    Premium price i agree, guess they are trying to recoup some R&D investment perhaps

    Only $1250 more than a 114 Breakout, which seem to be selling fine.
    Still expensive but i agree.
  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    Yea I thought the new FXDR or whatever the fuck it's called would be around the price of a Breakout , but fuck me it's way dearer ! Why not just bring back a FXWG if there's another bike with raked forks?
    That's fucked me over for a Livewire my thoughts were the Livewire would be early 20k max around 23K and yep I would of bought one no issue at all ,there'd be one in my garage but the price of the FXDR tells me it'll be either side of 30K or even mid 30k ,  so it looks like I won't be getting an E-bike at all.
    Fuck HD.
  • leachy
    leachy
    6 years ago
    It will be interesting, but I dont think the HD brand name is that strong to be able to just go and make any style of bike and plan on it being a winner. Its a bit like the Japanese trying to build cruisers, they can do it but what would buyers prefer. If a wanted a sports bike I'd buy a Jap bike and if I wanted adventure its going to be a BMW/KTM, Harley are just going to waste their money trying to get into those markets. 
    Time will tell.
  • Phelics
    Phelics
    6 years ago
    Quoting R2D2 on 23 Aug 2018 03:16 AM

    Yea I thought the new FXDR or whatever the fuck it's called would be around the price of a Breakout , but fuck me it's way dearer ! Why not just bring back a FXWG if there's another bike with raked forks?

    That's fucked me over for a Livewire my thoughts were the Livewire would be early 20k max around 23K and yep I would of bought one no issue at all ,there'd be one in my garage but the price of the FXDR tells me it'll be either side of 30K or even mid 30k ,  so it looks like I won't be getting an E-bike at all.
    Fuck HD.

    When the Zero was introduced in Australia (2010) the price was $12,990 +ORC.

    Not a bad looking bike, either - and not a world away from the LiveWire, although the LiveWire seems to be of much higher quality and bigger too.

    Still, it is not $20,000.00 worth of more quality and further to that, Harley have a mountain of other bikes with which to absorb R&D costs whereas for Zero, this was it. One bike, and they still managed to design, build, ship and put it on the road for what will be a third of the price of a LiveWire.




    zero_s_03-4b77a6f9e6299.jpg
  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    Quoting R2D2 on 23 Aug 2018 03:16 AM

    Yea I thought the new FXDR or whatever the fuck it's called would be around the price of a Breakout , but fuck me it's way dearer ! Why not just bring back a FXWG if there's another bike with raked forks?

    That's fucked me over for a Livewire my thoughts were the Livewire would be early 20k max around 23K and yep I would of bought one no issue at all ,there'd be one in my garage but the price of the FXDR tells me it'll be either side of 30K or even mid 30k ,  so it looks like I won't be getting an E-bike at all.
    Fuck HD.

    Quoting Phelics on 23 Aug 2018 04:27 AMedited: 23 Aug 2018 04:28 AM

    When the Zero was introduced in Australia (2010) the price was $12,990 +ORC.

    Not a bad looking bike, either - and not a world away from the LiveWire, although the LiveWire seems to be of much higher quality and bigger too.

    Still, it is not $20,000.00 worth of more quality and further to that, Harley have a mountain of other bikes with which to absorb R&D costs whereas for Zero, this was it. One bike, and they still managed to design, build, ship and put it on the road for what will be a third of the price of a LiveWire.




    zero_s_03-4b77a6f9e6299.jpg
    So what you might be saying is it"could" be cheaper than what I'm thinking ?
    I hope you're right man ,but for some stupid reason I can only buy HD's now , I found a mint RC51 last year or the year before for 10k ride away and I didn't buy it, I lay in bed wondering why , the RC51 was on my list for years I had never found one though.
    So yes the Zero and the others are nice but if the money is right it'll be a Livewire or nothing at all.
    So yea fuck Harley maybe.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    6 years ago



  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    6 years ago
    I’d hoped the FXDR would be performance oriented but with a 240 rear and 120 front, guess it isn’t. I don’t reckon the different swing arm would overcome the inherent poor handling of that tyre combo either.  May as well get a Breakout, cheaper and you get a free pillion seat :)
  • 98fxstc
    98fxstc
    6 years ago
    Not goin' to watch that Dickhead again
    Note the capital 'D'
  • Jayman6
    Jayman6
    6 years ago
    Quoting Ratbob on 23 Aug 2018 06:40 AM

    I’d hoped the FXDR would be performance oriented but with a 240 rear and 120 front, guess it isn’t. I don’t reckon the different swing arm would overcome the inherent poor handling of that tyre combo either.  May as well get a Breakout, cheaper and you get a free pillion seat :)

    Yep. On geometry and setup spec, the 114 Fatbob should eat it alive on a track or through the bends. Put some mid mounts on it and better again. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    6 years ago



  • R2D2
    R2D2
    6 years ago
    No Livewire yet ?
  • steelo
    steelo
    6 years ago
    Tragically, it looks like they've missed the opportunity with their "new updated" boom radio to have fully integrated blutooth. What is it with the deal they have with HC that they can completely overlook / ignore it time after time after time. No WHIM "purchased separately" for me.
  • Phelics
    Phelics
    6 years ago
    Quoting R2D2 on 23 Aug 2018 03:16 AM

    Yea I thought the new FXDR or whatever the fuck it's called would be around the price of a Breakout , but fuck me it's way dearer ! Why not just bring back a FXWG if there's another bike with raked forks?

    That's fucked me over for a Livewire my thoughts were the Livewire would be early 20k max around 23K and yep I would of bought one no issue at all ,there'd be one in my garage but the price of the FXDR tells me it'll be either side of 30K or even mid 30k ,  so it looks like I won't be getting an E-bike at all.
    Fuck HD.

    Quoting Phelics on 23 Aug 2018 04:27 AMedited: 23 Aug 2018 04:28 AM

    When the Zero was introduced in Australia (2010) the price was $12,990 +ORC.

    Not a bad looking bike, either - and not a world away from the LiveWire, although the LiveWire seems to be of much higher quality and bigger too.

    Still, it is not $20,000.00 worth of more quality and further to that, Harley have a mountain of other bikes with which to absorb R&D costs whereas for Zero, this was it. One bike, and they still managed to design, build, ship and put it on the road for what will be a third of the price of a LiveWire.




    zero_s_03-4b77a6f9e6299.jpg
    Quoting R2D2 on 23 Aug 2018 05:36 AM

    So what you might be saying is it"could" be cheaper than what I'm thinking ?

    I hope you're right man ,but for some stupid reason I can only buy HD's now , I found a mint RC51 last year or the year before for 10k ride away and I didn't buy it, I lay in bed wondering why , the RC51 was on my list for years I had never found one though.
    So yes the Zero and the others are nice but if the money is right it'll be a Livewire or nothing at all.
    So yea fuck Harley maybe.

    I’m saying that if Harley wanted to, it could easily absorb the R&D costs of the LiveWire via other models and put it up for sale in Australia for around $18,000 + ORC. 
    Chances are that at that price, they’d loose money on each one sold. 

    HOWEVER after 12 months, there would a shitload of them on the road and they would be ridden primarily by 25 - 40 year olds who would otherwise have never even considered a Harley. That’s a huge new market share. All of those are potential customers for life, who will happily buy at a premium thereafter.  

    Or keep selling less and less bikes year after year because they are grossly mispriced in the current climate and unpopular to boot. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    6 years ago
    Quoting Phelics on 23 Aug 2018 04:27 AMedited: 23 Aug 2018 04:28 AM

    When the Zero was introduced in Australia (2010) the price was $12,990 +ORC.

    Not a bad looking bike, either - and not a world away from the LiveWire, although the LiveWire seems to be of much higher quality and bigger too.

    Still, it is not $20,000.00 worth of more quality and further to that, Harley have a mountain of other bikes with which to absorb R&D costs whereas for Zero, this was it. One bike, and they still managed to design, build, ship and put it on the road for what will be a third of the price of a LiveWire.




    zero_s_03-4b77a6f9e6299.jpg
    Quoting R2D2 on 23 Aug 2018 05:36 AM

    So what you might be saying is it"could" be cheaper than what I'm thinking ?

    I hope you're right man ,but for some stupid reason I can only buy HD's now , I found a mint RC51 last year or the year before for 10k ride away and I didn't buy it, I lay in bed wondering why , the RC51 was on my list for years I had never found one though.
    So yes the Zero and the others are nice but if the money is right it'll be a Livewire or nothing at all.
    So yea fuck Harley maybe.

    Quoting Phelics on 23 Aug 2018 09:04 AM

    I’m saying that if Harley wanted to, it could easily absorb the R&D costs of the LiveWire via other models and put it up for sale in Australia for around $18,000 + ORC. 

    Chances are that at that price, they’d loose money on each one sold. 

    HOWEVER after 12 months, there would a shitload of them on the road and they would be ridden primarily by 25 - 40 year olds who would otherwise have never even considered a Harley. That’s a huge new market share. All of those are potential customers for life, who will happily buy at a premium thereafter.  

    Or keep selling less and less bikes year after year because they are grossly mispriced in the current climate and unpopular to boot. 

    Can i ask how you came up with that number as HD has not released the price for the livewire yet? 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    6 years ago



  • Phelics
    Phelics
    6 years ago
    Quoting R2D2 on 23 Aug 2018 05:36 AM

    So what you might be saying is it"could" be cheaper than what I'm thinking ?

    I hope you're right man ,but for some stupid reason I can only buy HD's now , I found a mint RC51 last year or the year before for 10k ride away and I didn't buy it, I lay in bed wondering why , the RC51 was on my list for years I had never found one though.
    So yes the Zero and the others are nice but if the money is right it'll be a Livewire or nothing at all.
    So yea fuck Harley maybe.

    Quoting Phelics on 23 Aug 2018 09:04 AM

    I’m saying that if Harley wanted to, it could easily absorb the R&D costs of the LiveWire via other models and put it up for sale in Australia for around $18,000 + ORC. 

    Chances are that at that price, they’d loose money on each one sold. 

    HOWEVER after 12 months, there would a shitload of them on the road and they would be ridden primarily by 25 - 40 year olds who would otherwise have never even considered a Harley. That’s a huge new market share. All of those are potential customers for life, who will happily buy at a premium thereafter.  

    Or keep selling less and less bikes year after year because they are grossly mispriced in the current climate and unpopular to boot. 

    Quoting paulybronco on 23 Aug 2018 09:25 AM

    Can i ask how you came up with that number as HD has not released the price for the livewire yet? 

    Well, as I see it, Zero showed it is possible to build a halfway decent electric bike for $12k + ORC.
    LiveWire will be much better and of higher quality. Even without the “Harley tax” it will be more expensive to make. That said, the tech has come along nicely and Harley need not do all the groundwork Zero did 8 years ago. 

    I have no idea what Harley’s profit margin is on bikes. My guess is not huge, especially whilst they still manufacture in the States. 

    So if Zero can build and manufacture a similar but lesser bike and be profitable at $12k, my guess is that Harley could build this for between $15k and $25k. If they sold it for that range or a bit less (ie, right on cost or even under) I think this will sell well and introduce a whole new generation to the brand. 

    What I actually think will happen is that they will expect “being first” and the name to justify a sticker price of $35k plus. That’s what I think the price will be, and my guess is that it will not go well. 
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7/11