old sporty build , mix of Hammer parts , Axtell & JE.

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old sporty build , mix of Hammer parts , Axtell & JE.

2/4

brucefxdl
6 years ago

interesting kk , following your progress.looks like the old principle of do it well,do it right,do once is being well applied here. cheers

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Quoting brucefxdl on 13 Aug 2018 10:18 AM
interesting kk , following your progress.looks like the old principle of do it well,do it right,do once is being well applied here. cheers

thanks Bruce, looking forward to riding it, but can't rush it.
the clutch will be interesting, as unlike most I'm just going to use a stock clutch, just remove spring plate and add an extra stock friction plate & two steels, as I have found the stock late clutch to be a good one. I have owned and used S&S clutch & Bandit Machine Works super clutch ( both very good ). but too much clutch makes it harder when you get to the track. so will start off stock see how it goes.

brash
6 years ago

Krash make sure you throw the riveted clutch plate in the bin mate. That was a very expensive exercise for me haha.
The energy one kit is good and will take it all. I used the SE kit and whilst it took all the launches I could throw at it the Kevlar plates would "squark" a bit on take off. I thought it was an installation issue but that's just what Kevlar does.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Quoting brash on 14 Aug 2018 10:18 PM
Krash make sure you throw the riveted clutch plate in the bin mate. That was a very expensive exercise for me haha.
The energy one kit is good and will take it all. I used the SE kit and whilst it took all the launches I could throw at it the Kevlar plates would "squark" a bit on take off. I thought it was an installation issue but that's just what Kevlar does.

thank's Brash, I have energy one in my Buell Cyclone.
I'll take the spring plate out and that will allow room to put one extra stock friction plate and two extra stock steels. so more surface area. I have always liked the stock plates. see how they go. the spring it has now feels heavier than the Buell so might have a SE spring. if slips too much. will get VPC pressure plate. but want to try stock, as with my twin cam dyna. I was getting a lot of clutch slip in 5th gear with extra plate & SE spring, but was ok in 4th, & was using 4th through speed traps. then thought, try a new S&S Clutch , was a nice clutch too but. my ET & sixty foot was both slower than with stock extra plate & SE spring, I think the slip helped me. thats why I'll go with this plan , as Sporty lighter same cubic inch as my twin cam was but larger bore in sporty & shorter stroke, so should rev & breath a bit better ( just have to see ) the Dyna was flying doing 121mph in 4th gear in speed traps, so hope this can match that.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Here is motor, Cylinder's & Cam's, Dummy assembly. to check all clearances.
Got High tensile studs in to hold heads barrels to cases.
won't be long now.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Now Machining bottom of barrels to get squish, to match chamber size for 10.5 comp.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

just have to wait & see. Cow got my old carb twin Cam flying. with me riding it 11.2 121mph, a gun rider like Daddyracer56 it would have done high tens. these heads look good, just I used 30 degree pistons on Twin cam & 2" intake valve ( always felt was too big for the size bore. I'll be happy if this goes like the twin cam. hard part is being able to use all you have at the track. I know taking the bike to drag strip not for everyone. just I like to test the speed I can do, safe environment.
will probably need a steering damper but wait see. as I don't like them for street that much.

you would be having a lot of fun with the motor in your bike I'm sure!! and you get attached to the feel of a bike you set up for yourself too.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

gearbox checked & rebuilt
this is reason I looked for a Rigid Sporty to do this build, as they still have the cassette gear box that you can pull out via from the primary side. rubber mount models you have to pull motor split cases to get to the gear box. same as XB Buell they don't have the cassette GB, but the tube frame carb Buell do.

Baloffski
6 years ago

Krash, that is such a trip you have spun, me being just a dumbarse rigger, that appreciates knowledge. I read and really love your passion, thank you for sharing, as just starting to get my old head around at what your direction be.. Thanks- really man.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Quoting Baloffski on 11 Sep 2018 09:22 AM
Krash, that is such a trip you have spun, me being just a dumbarse rigger, that appreciates knowledge. I read and really love your passion, thank you for sharing, as just starting to get my old head around at what your direction be.. Thanks- really man.

thanks m8, just looking forward to riding it.
the bike just fits me perfect, feel like part of it. but it was a slug. just want more torque.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

The Flywheels are going to be Dynamically Balanced, & the balance factor % will be changed. To Dynamically Balance flywheels have to be pressed apart Rods need to be removed then flywheels pressed together & trued. then they weigh rod end's, pistons , rings & piston pins & clips. then make up what they call a pop weight. That bolts in place of rods & pistons & the rest of rotating weight, the pop weight then bolts to the crank pin. & is spun at speed. they remove or add weight to get the balance factor you ask for. then Rods and roller bearings re fitted to the crank pin & pressed together. then the crank pin will be welded so flywheels can't slip out of true. as this motor its rigid mounted to frame. I think it's a good idea. my first Harley Motor I had Dynamically balanced was a 98 cubic inch Shovel . 3 5/8" bore 4 3/4" stroke with lighter S&S sidewinder flywheels. I reved that motor to 8,000rpm & if would flex the stock frame. it's still going & does standing quarter in 11's best was 11.6 & consistent, but new owner could not get traction out the hole and was all over the track off the line still 11.9. the shovel I had balance factor at 52%. I think the twin cam came with that balance factor from factory, but the shovel and Evo's 60% . I think the sporty will rev much smoother as short stroke 3 13/16" x 3 13/16" bore. just have to see.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Hilly, with the Old 60% balance factor , the motor was sort of smooth at low rev , but rougher as rev's go up, change to 52% and they get smoother as they rev higher,
to change the balance factor they first weigh the rotating weight in grams, then they work out the % you ask for and put that weight on the pop weight that bolts to the crank.
I watched thousands of Harley flywheels dynamically balanced on a Stewart Warner back in 80's & 90's, they would shake on the balancer, it had like shock absorbers. then when you get the balance weight right you see how smooth they spin, they also check coppoling, the balancer could tell you that too.
I think it would be very hard to true the big pin flywheels as need a lot of force. the pin needs about 40 ton of force to press out. but if you have enough work you can make a jig and set up to do it properly.

friday
6 years ago

some old HD and Indian FWs have the holes drilled opposite the crank , then there are some that have holes drilled on the rim close to the crank < are these ones evidence of dynamic balanced ?

Jim Mosher had his salt bike dynamic balanced , they have rim holes

http://performanceindian.com/Bottom%20End.html

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Quoting friday on 12 Sep 2018 08:15 PM
some old HD and Indian FWs have the holes drilled opposite the crank , then there are some that have holes drilled on the rim close to the crank < are these ones evidence of dynamic balanced ?

Jim Mosher had his salt bike dynamic balanced , they have rim holes

http://performanceindian.com/Bottom%20End.html

I think the factory static balanced some of the old ones. and the drill holes in flywheel could be result. my Shovel had them in the stock cast iron flywheels. but the S&S Flywheels steel or forged same as they still use. only new late model S&S Use the big pressed pin ( just the fit different to stock late HD big pin ) never seen an S&S pin slip but seen Harley big pins slip.
I have seen Flywheels John Treese has made a complete one off, top Fuel HD motor John made too , made to use a Wibble Supercharger he made the heads cast with a stainless steel chamber that is cast into the head. but you don't see John's motors on the internet. the flywheels Jim Mosher has pictured , are the same as the flywheel my shovel has. you can remove metal, or you can add this really expensive & heavy gold metal you press in. but unless you lighten some flywheels a lot you rarely see the heavy pressed in, to add weight in Harley's. but see it in V8 racing cranks a lot especially speedway sprint cars. you only need to dynamic balance once, then if you need new pistons you just remove metal off pistons or pin, to get weight to same as original dynamic balance.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Hilly, not sure if John is still working, but was told he goes to the salt in SA.
when I see Cow I will ask.
you have meet him & seen his work. if he had a web page he would have been over run with work. I told some Americans about products he designed and made. they all searched the net could not find anything.
he even made the masters & had a cam manufacture in Victoria make cams for him.
The PanMan ( I think he might have died ) he used to say, when he was working at Sturgis, customers of pistons he designed would come with questions & ask advice. then would ask for his web address . he said if you haven't got a web address they think you can't be that good.
The Top Fuel heads John made I saw them and the stainless chamber was cast into alloy. I have seen a lot of old top fuel Harley heads with stainless chambers, but all the others were bolted in stainless chamber, not cast in ( very hard to do!! ).
my old sporty not in same class as John's!! LOL

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Flywheels have been Resized ( forgot to mention when flywheels split pin & roller bearings all like new, but big end of rods shaped like an egg, for was resized now perfect ) , Balanced , Trued & welded

happy with result!! the way I look at it bottom end is an important part of motor, to build a performance motor you need to do that too, or you only half do it.

All done in Australia.

friday
6 years ago

did Treese build a sporty with high single cam ?
push rods of both cyl , positioned in the centre of the V , therefore front pipe = facing east , rear pipe facing east
Im trying to remember 20 yr ago mag article

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Quoting friday on 27 Sep 2018 07:49 PM
did Treese build a sporty with high single cam ?
push rods of both cyl , positioned in the centre of the V , therefore front pipe = facing east , rear pipe facing east
Im trying to remember 20 yr ago mag article

John Treese has done a lot of thing's over the years. that you don't see anything written online.
I just know what I've seen with my own eyes. that was a compleat Top Fuel ( Nitro motor ) looks like a panhead, built for a wibble supercharger.
I saw the panheads he modified for Metho Tom's sidecar outfit, he also made a complete motor for that same sidecar outfit.
but to best of my knowledge his race sporty uses Panheads , like the ones I looked at ( they where fantastic changed the chamber & manifold. he manufactured his our cam masters & got a victorian cam manufacturer to make cams to his design for his race sportster. that makes good low end Torque too. but I don't know about the ohc heads ( I could not see an advantage).

tussuck
6 years ago

Quoting Krash Kinkade on 27 Sep 2018 06:58 AMedited: 09 Oct 2018 09:54 PM

Flywheels have been Resized ( forgot to mention when flywheels split pin & roller bearings all like new, but big end of rods shaped like an egg, for was resized now perfect ) , Balanced , Trued & welded

happy with result!! the way I look at it bottom end is an important part of motor, to build a performance motor you need to do that too, or you only half do it.

All done in Australia.

There was a great article a few years back about welding vs pinning vs other approaches to the flywheel and the shear strength of each solution. Oddly enough welding came out as the weakest.

Krash Kinkade
6 years ago

Quoting Krash Kinkade on 27 Sep 2018 06:58 AMedited: 09 Oct 2018 09:54 PM

Flywheels have been Resized ( forgot to mention when flywheels split pin & roller bearings all like new, but big end of rods shaped like an egg, for was resized now perfect ) , Balanced , Trued & welded

happy with result!! the way I look at it bottom end is an important part of motor, to build a performance motor you need to do that too, or you only half do it.

All done in Australia.

Quoting tussuck on 28 Sep 2018 10:44 AM
There was a great article a few years back about welding vs pinning vs other approaches to the flywheel and the shear strength of each solution. Oddly enough welding came out as the weakest.

could be right, but I had a Twin Cam dyna from new, the crank pin was the 1.5", I don't know what the HP & TQ was as had a few tunes on that motor, but it was stock Harley flywheels. well the crank pin never broke but it slipped & took out the oil pump at end of the cam side shaft . throw away flywheels, had to get new set, got lucky as got a low k set, from a motor that was made big inch . welded the pin, just like this one, the motor still going ten years on. I did a lot of pass's at drags & road the bike to race, as far north as QLD & VIC south, reving to 7,200 rpm in speed traps ( rev limit I had set ).
then with Nitro Harleys ( Shumaker 120 cubic inch ) every crank rebuild the pin was welded in same as this & they had a smaller pin than the twin cam. they could not run roller bearings as the shock from burning high % of nitro just shatters the roller bearings. John Treese made a sleave type bearing . latter I saw bigger inch ( 180 cubic inch ) Alloy male female rods no bearings at all just alloy to case hardened crank pin. saw , they were billet rods, saw a lot of male female rods brake, was always the female rod that breaks . when that happens it takes everything with it.
In all my years riding Harleys ( all build for speed ) I have only seen three crank pins broken, they were all EVO big Twin bolt together type crank pins. ( not saying they are not strong ). I did not have the crank pin welded for strength, I had it welded to keep it true. not worried about the strength .

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2/4

old sporty build , mix of Hammer parts , Axtell & JE.

old sporty build , mix of Hammer parts , Axtell & JE.

brucefxdl

Krash Kinkade

brash

Krash Kinkade

Krash Kinkade

Krash Kinkade

Krash Kinkade

Krash Kinkade

Baloffski

Krash Kinkade

Krash Kinkade

Krash Kinkade

friday

Krash Kinkade

Krash Kinkade

Krash Kinkade

friday

Krash Kinkade

tussuck

Krash Kinkade