Transmission Fluid Migrating to Primary Issue - TA0022

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Transmission Fluid Migrating to Primary Issue - TA0022

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hithere
6 years ago

Hey all,
There have been a number of discussions about scavenger oil pump failure leading to blown heads on this forum but I have not read anything about the 'transmission fluid migrating to primary' issue. Officially known as Technical Bulletin TA0022.

It seems to impact M8 touring engines mostly. However, the worst part is that this issue has NO KNOWN FIX as yet. Harley is working on it, apparently.

Some poor buggers in the States had their M8 engines replaced 3 or 4 times. Then, Harley decided to only replace the gearboxes. Most recent 'fix' is some kind of camshaft seal and spacer... which has helped some but it has not stopped the tranny oil loss. Some bikes are loosing as much as 100ml - 300ml of fluid every 1,000kms!! Folks who rev more seems to have higher rate of issues. Such as those with Stage 3 kit.

On the State side, folks are up in arms about Harley making some loss of tranny fluid 'acceptable' now (read the 'Cause' section of the TA0022).

I was intrigued that no one seems to be discussing this here. Have you all checked your tranny oil level? How wide spread is this issue really?

Cheers and Merry Christmas!

markwoumla
6 years ago

From the US forums , the talk is to do with migrating oil on the new M8 bikes.. The bulletin states they could also have a problem with earlier twin cam models , (Harley seem to have kept that under the radar),,,

The bulletin also states the action required, (if oil is migrating), on twin cams, is to replace two parts , (see pic items 13 and 19).. On the M8 , they say just keep checking the primary and tran levels, and if migrating oil is over the top, take her back to the dealer , (to do what exactly ?? ) ....

Sounds like they have not got a fix ,(parts wise), on the M8's if oil is migrating !!!

PS ... The pic is for a 2015 Street Glide .

perthhog
6 years ago

This problem has been around alot longer than m8 or Tc engines it is the engine oil ending up in the primary which all
You normally do is replace the crank seal on the primary side that’s why the oil level rises in the primary
Maybe the Tc and the m8 are having this issue more to do with the crank runout deal

Oz Dan
6 years ago

I had a second dyno tune last week and my bike transferred zero trans oil to primary. Just mentioning as this issue is reported to be amplified at high rpm.

perthhog
6 years ago

You obviously don’t have this issue than

DocGreen
6 years ago

hithere, 2 separate issue there mate (unfortunately). One is 'sumping' leading to potential engine failure. HD have revised oil pumps several times, but there still seems to be failures. There is a bunch of opinions as to the cause, from (as OzDan said) design issues with the cases and pump design, to poor quality control of cylinders leading to excessive blow by, and leaking piston oilers - we all have to wait and see.
The migration is limited to gearbox to primary (for the M8's anyway) and, yes, we are still waiting on an official fix from HD.
It has been discussed on this forum by a few guys, and you can't help but feel pissed off for the ones affected, I'm not and am loving the bike but it is always in the back of the mind - really hoping HD get on top of this issue, and quickly.
If you can wait, then wait would be my advice.

cheers

DocGreen

hithere
6 years ago

Thanks DocGreen,
Aside from wanting one, I am not in a hurry so I will wait. Thanks for the info on oil pump as well. Yes, as a prospective returning Harley buyer, I want to see all existing customers looked after before I would back the HD brand again.

dyna13
5 years ago

So are there many transmission migrations happening with anyone now. Was wondering if the 2019 tourers are also affected? Not talking about slumping just the transmission to primary.

Oz Dan
5 years ago

Quoting dyna13 on 29 Nov 2018 10:39 AMedited: 29 Nov 2018 10:41 AM
So are there many transmission migrations happening with anyone now. Was wondering if the 2019 tourers are also affected? Not talking about slumping just the transmission to primary.

Not so sure there were ever that many in the scheme of things......but no, nothing has changed in design. There is a fellow in the states from Macomb County Choppers, name Greg Williams......he has designed a clutch push rod which is a bigger diameter than stock. Said to fix the issue every time if you have it. My bike has never transferred in 30.000 km but I installed the rod so I didn’t have to keep checking!
More info here brother....https://www.hdforums.com/forum/general-harley-davidson-chat/1258837-no-more-trans-oil-to-primary-transfer.html

Another bloke has a different fix but it requires drilling a hole in the actuator which I wasn’t keen on. Check out the same forum under “the Fix” if you want to go that way......

dyna13
5 years ago

Yeh Dan read about both “ the fix “ and the push rod one. I’ve just heard about a couple of possible transfers but I do wonder how many people actually check their trans oil ( or engine, Tyres etc ) as some people don’t think it important for some reason and just ride until service time and when a service is done if they drop the oils without checking levels wouldn’t even be aware.

Oz Dan
5 years ago

Quoting dyna13 on 29 Nov 2018 08:30 PMedited: 29 Nov 2018 08:39 PM
Yeh Dan read about both “ the fix “ and the push rod one. I’ve just heard about a couple of possible transfers but I do wonder how many people actually check their trans oil ( or engine, Tyres etc ) as some people don’t think it important for some reason and just ride until service time and when a service is done if they drop the oils without checking levels wouldn’t even be aware.

True mate, most who haven’t heard of the issue probably never check. And why would they? Never had the issue personally, and I checked weekly.....but as above, I bought Greg’s Rod as Insurance.
BTW - there are two pushrod fixes. The CVO 3 piece and the Williams jobby- the Harley Fix is reported to not work 100% of the time whearas the Williams rod appears to work all the time. Talking with him he says he’s sorted around 300 bikes so far, all fixed. His has now 10,000 miles on his own M8 without migration reoccurring.......His was $65 bucks delivered.......if it’s of any concern to you just get it done and the problem becomes non existent.

mickle
5 years ago

Quoting dyna13 on 29 Nov 2018 08:30 PMedited: 29 Nov 2018 08:39 PM
Yeh Dan read about both “ the fix “ and the push rod one. I’ve just heard about a couple of possible transfers but I do wonder how many people actually check their trans oil ( or engine, Tyres etc ) as some people don’t think it important for some reason and just ride until service time and when a service is done if they drop the oils without checking levels wouldn’t even be aware.

Quoting Oz Dan on 29 Nov 2018 09:10 PMedited: 29 Nov 2018 09:12 PM
True mate, most who haven’t heard of the issue probably never check. And why would they? Never had the issue personally, and I checked weekly.....but as above, I bought Greg’s Rod as Insurance.
BTW - there are two pushrod fixes. The CVO 3 piece and the Williams jobby- the Harley Fix is reported to not work 100% of the time whearas the Williams rod appears to work all the time. Talking with him he says he’s sorted around 300 bikes so far, all fixed. His has now 10,000 miles on his own M8 without migration reoccurring.......His was $65 bucks delivered.......if it’s of any concern to you just get it done and the problem becomes non existent.

Just under $100aud delivered now.

Oz Dan
5 years ago

Quoting dyna13 on 29 Nov 2018 08:30 PMedited: 29 Nov 2018 08:39 PM
Yeh Dan read about both “ the fix “ and the push rod one. I’ve just heard about a couple of possible transfers but I do wonder how many people actually check their trans oil ( or engine, Tyres etc ) as some people don’t think it important for some reason and just ride until service time and when a service is done if they drop the oils without checking levels wouldn’t even be aware.

Quoting Oz Dan on 29 Nov 2018 09:10 PMedited: 29 Nov 2018 09:12 PM
True mate, most who haven’t heard of the issue probably never check. And why would they? Never had the issue personally, and I checked weekly.....but as above, I bought Greg’s Rod as Insurance.
BTW - there are two pushrod fixes. The CVO 3 piece and the Williams jobby- the Harley Fix is reported to not work 100% of the time whearas the Williams rod appears to work all the time. Talking with him he says he’s sorted around 300 bikes so far, all fixed. His has now 10,000 miles on his own M8 without migration reoccurring.......His was $65 bucks delivered.......if it’s of any concern to you just get it done and the problem becomes non existent.

Quoting mickle on 29 Nov 2018 09:15 PM
Just under $100aud delivered now.

Yeah that’s correct my bad......did you have the issue Mick or did you just get one for insurance against it ever happening?

mickle
5 years ago

Quoting Oz Dan on 29 Nov 2018 09:10 PMedited: 29 Nov 2018 09:12 PM
True mate, most who haven’t heard of the issue probably never check. And why would they? Never had the issue personally, and I checked weekly.....but as above, I bought Greg’s Rod as Insurance.
BTW - there are two pushrod fixes. The CVO 3 piece and the Williams jobby- the Harley Fix is reported to not work 100% of the time whearas the Williams rod appears to work all the time. Talking with him he says he’s sorted around 300 bikes so far, all fixed. His has now 10,000 miles on his own M8 without migration reoccurring.......His was $65 bucks delivered.......if it’s of any concern to you just get it done and the problem becomes non existent.

Quoting mickle on 29 Nov 2018 09:15 PM
Just under $100aud delivered now.

Quoting Oz Dan on 29 Nov 2018 09:23 PM
Yeah that’s correct my bad......did you have the issue Mick or did you just get one for insurance against it ever happening?

No issue only insurance as I get the stage 4 with woods cam and S&S pump done next week.

dyna13
5 years ago

So is any further work need to fit the larger Williams diameter rod? As in seals or does it fit straight in. It’s a one piece isn’t it as the Cvo is a three rod?

mickle
5 years ago

Quoting dyna13 on 29 Nov 2018 10:56 PM
So is any further work need to fit the larger Williams diameter rod? As in seals or does it fit straight in. It’s a one piece isn’t it as the Cvo is a three rod?

I piece, slide old out and new in, done.

dyna13
5 years ago

Sounds good will have a look

pogmahon
5 years ago

Only became aware of this issue today as I am at 7000km and was running my eye over the bike (2018 FLTRXS) Checked gearbox oil dipstick as per manual (on stand, screwed in til 0-ring just seats, at room temp etc). No oil on stick at all??? stand bike upright, still nothing. Called my Dealer here in Geelong and they say they're unaware of any problem in regards to oil migration. Normally I'd dump the oil and measure the amount myself but I've dropped it in their lap and am waiting to hear back from them. In the meantime I've been doing a hell of a lot of reading about the issue and I believe it's bigger than they're willing to admit. I'll report back once I know more but it sounds like the Williams Pushrod replacement might be something to consider if it continues to happen.
Cheers Graeme.

Oz Dan
5 years ago

Quoting pogmahon on 03 Dec 2018 10:02 AM
Only became aware of this issue today as I am at 7000km and was running my eye over the bike (2018 FLTRXS) Checked gearbox oil dipstick as per manual (on stand, screwed in til 0-ring just seats, at room temp etc). No oil on stick at all??? stand bike upright, still nothing. Called my Dealer here in Geelong and they say they're unaware of any problem in regards to oil migration. Normally I'd dump the oil and measure the amount myself but I've dropped it in their lap and am waiting to hear back from them. In the meantime I've been doing a hell of a lot of reading about the issue and I believe it's bigger than they're willing to admit. I'll report back once I know more but it sounds like the Williams Pushrod replacement might be something to consider if it continues to happen.
Cheers Graeme.

This is a very well known issue. Quote them TA00022......actually, google it, print it out, and take it in to show them. This is the technical alert HD issued about the problem. Harley have since pulled it and pretend they know nothing of it.
All bikes with hydraulic clutches since 2014 can be effected by this. Your oil is in the primary.

HD have no clue how to fix this. They do have a oil slinger kit meant to help, but often it’s reported to actually make it worse. You can stuff around with your dealer till the cows come home but until you fit the Willians pushrod, if your bike is effected, it’ll never stop.....

Oz Dan
5 years ago

Here is the technical alert for the issue......as you can read within, they have no fix for 2017 up bikes. They still don’t.

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Transmission Fluid Migrating to Primary Issue - TA0022

Transmission Fluid Migrating to Primary Issue - TA0022

hithere

markwoumla

perthhog

Oz Dan

perthhog

DocGreen

hithere

dyna13

Oz Dan

dyna13

Oz Dan

mickle

Oz Dan

mickle

dyna13

mickle

dyna13

pogmahon

Oz Dan

Oz Dan