Well I've gone and done it, bought some Andrews 57H cams and S&S Bee hive hi lift springs, used but in cherry condition, only 1500 kays or so on them, too cheap to pass up.

I hope I have made the right choice, but going by what I have researched I think I have especially for the price. 

So I have a couple of quick questions for the "Brains Trust".

First off I probably will not be fitting the new springs just yet, unless I do it without removing the heads.

I don't think it is worth the time, effort and cost to pull them just to change the springs, and fit a 30 thou head gasket. I would rather wait till I decide if I want to go to 107 or 110, and then get the heads either ported or CNC'd to suit if that can be done in Aussie.

I do however want to fit new lifters, S&S Hi Performance units part number 33-5350 are what I'm thinking of using, not the more costly Premiums as I don't think this mild cam and engine combination justifies going for those units at double the cost. Is my thinking correct on this choice ?

Best place to get them in Aussie ? Rollies in Brisbane ?

I want to fit the better style of Torrington inner cam bearings, I will have to source them, as they are not included, I have a photo of the bearing box, giving the following numbers B-168 L 125 above the barcode and TR406997 underneath the barcode also given is Lube code 125.

My question is how far beyond flush are they seated ? I know I can buy a tool to fit them, but funds are tight, and I can machine up the mandrel no problems, I just need to know what the recess distance the store bought tools press them into, can anyone supply this measurement ?

I am also thinking of NOT using adjustable pushrods to save some $$$ at this time, (so I can fit the cams now and not save up for the quickee pushrods) I want to remove the rocker gear anyway to fit some homemade rocker lockers, and suss out the feasibility of doing the valve springs and stem seals without pulling the heads.

So will the stock HD pushrods do for the time being ? I sort of like the simplicity of non adjustable pushrods, less to fail, lighter etc, and I don't plan on changing cams anytime soon, if the 57H goes like I hope it should.

I have also been reading mixed reports about using the 4 degree advance cam gear, from what I have read, it makes the cam come on a few hundred rpm earlier (which is nice) but makes it run out of puff way earlier (not so nice), I can live with it starting to come on at 2500, really pull from 3 grand up to late 4's early 5's, if the 4 degree advance make it die off at 4 grand, thoughts ??

Anyway better get back to cleaning and packing, getting ready to escape the LUNEY BIN tomorrow :)

Cheers

Ken

Good stuff ken. 

If don't have much cash:

pull apart and keep gaskets, o-rings etc inspect, can normally reuse everything, buy just what u need not sets

reuse lifters, or no more than comp cams

I wouldn't do the bearings either until next build, sure if get tool for free change

reuse pushrods, they be fine

don't worry about specific lube, engine oil does same job

Thanks for the replies.

Just to clarify some of my points and to reply to some of the comments.

I want to change the lifters for a couple of reasons, those being that I do not like to fit old lifters onto a new camshaft, it can be done I guess, but I personally don't like the practice. Also the stock lifters get very mixed reviews, and the quality was supposed to have dropped, if I reuse my pushrods I can use the savings to fit the basic S7S ones for less than 200 bucks, which I am happy to invest because of my first point.

I know it is a widely held belief that you have to remove cylinder heads to remove valve springs, however I have changed valve guide seals without removing heads, there are a couple of ways to stop the valves dropping, compressed air, or using thin soft cotton rope fed into the cylinder chamber and then lightly compressed by winding the engine over. Sounds weird, but does work.

Maybe someone will lone me the cam bearing tool (open to offers) however I am confident I can machine one up on the lathe that will work if I can get the measurements, it's not that complicated, if not I will take them off the bearings before I pull them. I'm sure they are just set in to give shoulder clearance, maybe 10 to 20 thou, might even be in the service manual, I haven't looked yet.

Yeah I know I don't need to fit the springs as yet but would like to if I can, if not they will stay in the box till I do the head work.

Good to hear the stock pushrods will be OK, I was pretty sure they would be, it's not a wild cam with huge lift and monster valve springs.

Going on what I have researched, the only O-Ring that MUST be replaced is the oil suction one going to the oil pump, do not want suction leaks on that one. The other couple I probably will have on hand if they are standard sizes, the gaskets hopefully will come off OK and I'll use a little non-hardening Permatex, and cross my fingers :)

Got to go crew change today, ....... I'm out of here :)

Cheers

Ken

It's not just the valves dropping you have to worry about, it's holding them in against their seat tight and compressing the spring to fit the collet. I guess a tool could be made to do it though..

I fitted 57H cams to my 103 , at the time i just replaced the cams , lifters , push rods and inner bearings.
From what i read stock springs are ok with them and i emailed them to ask about compression and the reply was that a compression bump wasn't necessary. 
A workmate loaned me the cam bearing tools http://www.georges-garage.com/tc_engine_2.htm which made that job easy , also a few unc taps for cleaning locktite from threads.
A place called Nub Tools http://www.nubtools.com has a product for compressing the valve springs without pulling the heads (have one and it works) , not hard to use.
I don't think you would get them with a typical puller type spring compressor as there isn't a lot of room around the spring and above the head with the engine in the bike.
The Harley service manual was handy for a novice like me for torque spec's etc.

cool, good to know !! I think I'll add that tool to my collection... nice one

Thanks for the reply's.

Yeah I didn't mention the tools I fabricated up to compress the springs etc.

Yes freezer overnight for the bearings, works for the exhaust gaskets too :)

You can actually put a fair bit of load on the underside of the valves, enough to hold them up if you don't drag em down with the spring, you have to push it down straight, but I don't know what space I have to work with, or designed something to do the job yet, I'll have to wait till I get the covers off, and go from there, as I said it is just something I'm looking into, if I have the springs and can fit them, I might as well.

I'll have a look at the link Arron provided and see what that tool looks like. Thanks for the info Arron :) How are you finding the cams ??

The bike has 14500 km  or so BTW.

0.140 is a lot of preload isn't it Daggs ?? That's getting down to the lower usable limit from what I have read, + or - 0.050 each way.

Daggs I would appreciate if you can provide the inset measurements mate. I have a complete set of blind expandable finger bearing pullers, so getting them out isn't the issue. just putting them in. Always easy to pull shit apart :) As always the trick is getting it back together correctly LOL

I'll hopefully either ride down to T-Ville and pick them up or get them sent up in the next few days, so got to source some lifters ASAP, best place to get em ?? Rollies ?

Cheers

Ken

0.140" is if, it still leaves 0.060" before the lifter becomes solid. It's what the top engine builders in the U.S. recommend and has worked for me, no noisey valve track.

I just use eBay for most of my S&S gear, from the states, its usually way cheaper than Rollies unfortunately 

Rollies dont seem to sell the S&S standard lifters , only the premiums , (ie the more expensive ones)... Strange I know ....

Give Branko Motorcycles a ring ,,, Central NSW ..02- 43561800 .... I rang awhile ago, and he could get the standards ... from memory approx $220 plus postage .....

Yeah it does leave some travel Daggs, just from what I have read about them the middle is the most effective part of the lifter, I wonder if setting them deeper gives a little more oil flow if the lifter plunger is stroking a bit further, and if it is turning them in to semi-solids with high lift cams, not sure if I'm on the right track, was just pondering it.

Easy R are not listing the ones I wanted at the moment, I did have a look.

I rang Rollies today, and as stated they only stock the Premium ones at 427 bucks, and out of stock till later on in the month. However they have the Fueling 4000 series in stock for $226, so I'm going to use them.

Rollies don't stock the conventional S&S pushrods either, only the adjustable ones.

I could get them (the lifters) from the USA via eBay for 40 bucks less, but they will not arrive till next month with the cheaper postage, unless I pay heaps of shipping, then maybe 10 days, and the cost is the same then.

What really bugs me was that I was only about two kays or so from Rollies the other day when I overnighted in Brissy :(

15 bucks postage or so, and the cams will be on the way up from T-Ville next week, I can't travel down to get them like I hoped, got domestic crap I gotta deal with.

Hopefully I'll get the new bearings early next week and machine the set in tool and get on with the job after the weekend, as I have some other work I want to do while the tank is off.

Cheers

You know there is no need to take the tank off, just raise it a bit with a block of wood up the backbone from the rear.. Unless you need to take it right off for some other reason...

I have some other work to do Daggs :)

Running some electrical cables for a USB mount so I can run a phone or gps unit etc on my upcoming trip.

Also might look fabricating some brackets to do a tank lift, I can't see the speedo, if I put the top 1/2 of the tank bag on, one of the reasons I need to run the gps unit, so I have a bloody speedo LOL.

Hopefully the cams will be in early next week, weather should be good for a decent ride on the weekend, only been for one blat yesterday, day I got home after 5 weeks away, she survived the lay-off period and is now wide awake again, LOL

Cheers

Yeah fair enough China, I didn't know what model bike he's got :)

here are the measurements. as for the total length, just make it so its long enough to be held comfortably. The actual tool is only short as its pushed in by a long set screw bolt.

The cam gear locking tool is a very handy tool to have, only costs a couple of bucks off of eBay...

like I said earlier, the hardest part will be getting the old bearings out unless you have the correct puller (1.00" blind hole bearing puller)

Good shit Daggs. A lot are saying thanks- fer sure.

Thanks Daggs :)

Looks like 20 thou clearance on the shoulder, about what I was thinking :)

Do you have a part number for the cam locking tool ??

Thanks for the feedback Arron, hopefully I'll get them in next week :)

Few domestic things to do as well.

Cheers

Just an update.

I have ordered the Fueling 4000 series lifters from Rollies via the dealer up here, cost me the same and they get a cut rather than Rollies, I think they need it more :)

While I was there I bought an open cap for my Supertrapp exhaust, I would like to try and get that changed out before I do the cam change, just to see if I can notice any difference, beside the change of note and increase in DB level :)

I'm just finishing of a swing out derrick for my new loft, so I can lift up some of the crap taking up floor space in my shed, some of the tubs of parts etc and shelving units are way to heavy for this Old Fart to lift up by hand, especially by myself. Hopefully I'll have it all done and most if not all of the crap I want to move for the time being by tomorrow night.

I'm thinking of knocking up a ride onto ramped worktable to get her up off the ground, I'm thinking quicker and simpler than a lift style table, and if I make the draws square I can turn them around and stand the unit on its end when I'm not using it to save some space, and still have useful draws. I'm thinking I want the cam chest to be a good working height when I'm on my shed chair, and that way the rocker gear should still be a good height when standing up, but I can still reach higher up if needed, like when I take the tank off etc.

Cheers

Yes it's good getting them up off the ground to work on
Sorry no part number for the locking tool, just search on eBay, I got mine from the same supplier I get most my parts from in the states

I found a couple of the locking tools on evilbay, bloody expensive, can get one from Rollies for 88 bucks which was cheaper, a Jim's brand.

I can do the job without it apparently, just not as easily, LOL.

Got the crane up and running, might have to make some stairs or a proper ladder, nearly came a cropper today climbing down onto the step ladder.

Moved a lot of boxes, still a bit of cleaning up to do, the good news is the lifters showed up today, the bad news is the wife answered the phone ;(

Hopefully will make the worktable tomorrow, but I need to go and get some welding rods, just about out, I may not fully finish it, just get the frame and top done so I can use it.

I'll worry about all the fiddly draws and shit later on, be a good rainy day job :)

Cheers