Online: HD, John.R

GEORGE PELL CHARGED

7/8
  • bloodog
    bloodog
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 07 Apr 2020 09:27 AM

    Sherpa its not about the truth or justice...its who tells the better story. As for the jury...they make or are directed to dismiss or admit certain parts of evidence that can sway them either way...fact juries make mistakes.
    In this case according to the judgement they have made an error.


    Quoting bloodog on 10 Apr 2020 04:34 AM

    Somebody will stab the fat cunt 

    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 04:39 AM

    That may well happen in the future but dont forget 7 people far smarter than all of us said he didnt do it and that's the end of the story. Oh until we have to compensate him

    You mean until he dose it again 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting bloodog on 10 Apr 2020 04:34 AM

    Somebody will stab the fat cunt 

    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 04:39 AM

    That may well happen in the future but dont forget 7 people far smarter than all of us said he didnt do it and that's the end of the story. Oh until we have to compensate him

    Quoting bloodog on 10 Apr 2020 06:33 AM

    You mean until he dose it again 

    Well the law said he never did it in the first place
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 04:39 AM

    That may well happen in the future but dont forget 7 people far smarter than all of us said he didnt do it and that's the end of the story. Oh until we have to compensate him

    Quoting bloodog on 10 Apr 2020 06:33 AM

    You mean until he dose it again 

    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 07:21 AM

    Well the law said he never did it in the first place

    There’s a big fuckin difference between “he didn’t do it (innocent)” and not-guilty. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting bloodog on 10 Apr 2020 06:33 AM

    You mean until he dose it again 

    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 07:21 AM

    Well the law said he never did it in the first place

    Quoting fatbat on 10 Apr 2020 07:23 AM

    There’s a big fuckin difference between “he didn’t do it (innocent)” and not-guilty. 

    And which one of those do you think the Supreme Court of appeals ruled on
  • bloodog
    bloodog
    4 years ago
    Quoting bloodog on 10 Apr 2020 06:33 AM

    You mean until he dose it again 

    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 07:21 AM

    Well the law said he never did it in the first place

    Quoting fatbat on 10 Apr 2020 07:23 AM

    There’s a big fuckin difference between “he didn’t do it (innocent)” and not-guilty. 

    No there is big money in the Catholic Church 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 07:21 AM

    Well the law said he never did it in the first place

    Quoting fatbat on 10 Apr 2020 07:23 AM

    There’s a big fuckin difference between “he didn’t do it (innocent)” and not-guilty. 

    Quoting bloodog on 10 Apr 2020 09:23 AM

    No there is big money in the Catholic Church 

    Thats not in question , they are extremely wealthy. Are you suggesting that this decision was as a result of their money?
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 07:21 AM

    Well the law said he never did it in the first place

    Quoting fatbat on 10 Apr 2020 07:23 AM

    There’s a big fuckin difference between “he didn’t do it (innocent)” and not-guilty. 

    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 08:40 AM

    And which one of those do you think the Supreme Court of appeals ruled on

    It (the entire criminal justice system), irrespective of a jury, judge or court of appeal, rules on the standard of proof of beyond reasonable doubt. That’s a very high threshold to prove, particularly for historical sex offences where it is usually the word of one against another.  And sadly most of the best evidence never makes it to trial and is ruled out. 
    If that standard of proof is not met, the accused is found not guilty. That is far from saying they’re innocent; it’s just that their conduct couldn’t be proven beyond reasonable doubt. 
    Pretty fucked in my opinion that an appeal court can overturn the finding of a jury of 12 people from the community. But that’s the system we live with. We’d rather see 99 guilty fuckers freed than see 1 innocent person convicted. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting fatbat on 10 Apr 2020 07:23 AM

    There’s a big fuckin difference between “he didn’t do it (innocent)” and not-guilty. 

    Quoting paulybronco on 10 Apr 2020 08:40 AM

    And which one of those do you think the Supreme Court of appeals ruled on

    Quoting fatbat on 10 Apr 2020 11:48 AM

    It (the entire criminal justice system), irrespective of a jury, judge or court of appeal, rules on the standard of proof of beyond reasonable doubt. That’s a very high threshold to prove, particularly for historical sex offences where it is usually the word of one against another.  And sadly most of the best evidence never makes it to trial and is ruled out. 

    If that standard of proof is not met, the accused is found not guilty. That is far from saying they’re innocent; it’s just that their conduct couldn’t be proven beyond reasonable doubt. 
    Pretty fucked in my opinion that an appeal court can overturn the finding of a jury of 12 people from the community. But that’s the system we live with. We’d rather see 99 guilty fuckers freed than see 1 innocent person convicted. 

    This is the system we have...most folks see the flaws and the advantages of it, regardless we are stuck with it.  In this instance it was not the standard of proof that fell short, it was based on two premise. One of the persons nominated to have been abused denied ever being abused and the second gave an account that could not have happened during the time frame or manner they had him convicted of. In the eyes of the law he is innocent.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quote source removed.
    Absolutely correct James. The inconvenient fact that the time line and circumstances were impossible was overlooked on several occasions in this matter. Like you i have no idea if he did or not do anything to children but in this case i am reasonably certain it was not possible
  • B0nes
    B0nes
    4 years ago
    No judgement if he's guilty or not from me as I have no idea of the evidence but it makes me wonder how many are behind bars that are innocent. Did read an article about an indigenous fellow charged with murder and sentenced a number of years ago. Spent a few years behind bars before a smart lawyer decided to go back over the evidence and found out that at the time of the murder this fellow was in a drunk tank at a local cop shop. Evidence was withheld because being a bit of a trouble maker the local coppers wanted him out of the picture and decided this was a good way of doing it. Remember him being asked when released if he was going to sue the police. Nope, he just wanted to go back home to his family.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting B0nes on 11 Apr 2020 01:30 AM

    No judgement if he's guilty or not from me as I have no idea of the evidence but it makes me wonder how many are behind bars that are innocent. Did read an article about an indigenous fellow charged with murder and sentenced a number of years ago. Spent a few years behind bars before a smart lawyer decided to go back over the evidence and found out that at the time of the murder this fellow was in a drunk tank at a local cop shop. Evidence was withheld because being a bit of a trouble maker the local coppers wanted him out of the picture and decided this was a good way of doing it. Remember him being asked when released if he was going to sue the police. Nope, he just wanted to go back home to his family.

    There is several well documented cases where innocent people are convicted and jailed both here and overseas. People get confused when convicted people get released thru a technicality in the process leading to the jailing. In those incidents its difficult to not feel anger and frustration as the person is clearly guilty but remains at large. If you have the interest look up the full details of this case.....And again a jury found him not guilty!
  • B0nes
    B0nes
    4 years ago
    Quoting B0nes on 11 Apr 2020 01:30 AM

    No judgement if he's guilty or not from me as I have no idea of the evidence but it makes me wonder how many are behind bars that are innocent. Did read an article about an indigenous fellow charged with murder and sentenced a number of years ago. Spent a few years behind bars before a smart lawyer decided to go back over the evidence and found out that at the time of the murder this fellow was in a drunk tank at a local cop shop. Evidence was withheld because being a bit of a trouble maker the local coppers wanted him out of the picture and decided this was a good way of doing it. Remember him being asked when released if he was going to sue the police. Nope, he just wanted to go back home to his family.

    Quoting paulybronco on 11 Apr 2020 01:50 AM

    There is several well documented cases where innocent people are convicted and jailed both here and overseas. People get confused when convicted people get released thru a technicality in the process leading to the jailing. In those incidents its difficult to not feel anger and frustration as the person is clearly guilty but remains at large. If you have the interest look up the full details of this case.....And again a jury found him not guilty!

    Interesting article. I remember my old man having to work with Raymond Carroll some years back. He was convicted of the murder of a 17 month old toddler back in 1973 later had his conviction overturned on appeal. Further evidence later showed that the case could be reopened but because of the double jeopardy laws at the time he couldn't be retried. The company that that the old man worked for couldn't sack him without a good excuse, so every worker just refused to work alongside him which forced the company to get rid of him. As far as I know he is still walking the streets a free man.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting B0nes on 11 Apr 2020 01:30 AM

    No judgement if he's guilty or not from me as I have no idea of the evidence but it makes me wonder how many are behind bars that are innocent. Did read an article about an indigenous fellow charged with murder and sentenced a number of years ago. Spent a few years behind bars before a smart lawyer decided to go back over the evidence and found out that at the time of the murder this fellow was in a drunk tank at a local cop shop. Evidence was withheld because being a bit of a trouble maker the local coppers wanted him out of the picture and decided this was a good way of doing it. Remember him being asked when released if he was going to sue the police. Nope, he just wanted to go back home to his family.

    Quoting paulybronco on 11 Apr 2020 01:50 AM

    There is several well documented cases where innocent people are convicted and jailed both here and overseas. People get confused when convicted people get released thru a technicality in the process leading to the jailing. In those incidents its difficult to not feel anger and frustration as the person is clearly guilty but remains at large. If you have the interest look up the full details of this case.....And again a jury found him not guilty!

    Quoting B0nes on 11 Apr 2020 03:39 AM

    Interesting article. I remember my old man having to work with Raymond Carroll some years back. He was convicted of the murder of a 17 month old toddler back in 1973 later had his conviction overturned on appeal. Further evidence later showed that the case could be reopened but because of the double jeopardy laws at the time he couldn't be retried. The company that that the old man worked for couldn't sack him without a good excuse, so every worker just refused to work alongside him which forced the company to get rid of him. As far as I know he is still walking the streets a free man.

    I feel that for the majority of cases the judgements are fair. I would argue strongly that the sentences for some of the crimes are disproportionately lenient in favour of the perpetrator over the victim.   
    In a large percentage of serious crimes the offender is well known to police and has been to court on several occasions sometimes for the same or similar matters and received insignificant rulings against them. Should Australia adapt the USA three strikes policy ....not sure
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    After reading an article today regarding the appeal process it pinpointed the reason for this mess. When Pell was found guilty his side immediately lodged a appeal. That appeal went before 3 judges not attached to the case. Two of the 3 upheld the original verdict but one did not. The problem seems to have started at this point, both of those judges are civil judges and the one who said release him is a criminal judge. The burden of proof in a civil matter is considerably lower than a criminal matter and was therefore overlooked. The criminal judge provided  the brief to the 7 supreme court judges who immediately recognized the errors and acquitted Pell.
    The takeaway line from the article was..."You wouldn't send a brain surgeon to operate on a dodgy knee"
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    4 years ago
    I see all the church services are now being done via video.... I bet there are a chitload of Alter boys out there breathing a sigh of relief thanks to social isolation 
  • markwoumla
    markwoumla
    4 years ago
    I would also bet there is a chitload of young people not being feed drugs of all types, by low life scum because of lockdown and social isolation ….
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting markwoumla on 12 Apr 2020 11:26 AM

    I would also bet there is a chitload of young people not being feed drugs of all types, by low life scum because of lockdown and social isolation ….

    Is has not stopped them trying to bring it back over the border into Qld. Some dim whit was caught with a few hundred tablets in a unregistered interstate plate car and without a permit coming across at the Tweed/Qld border
  • B0nes
    B0nes
    4 years ago
    Quoting markwoumla on 12 Apr 2020 11:26 AM

    I would also bet there is a chitload of young people not being feed drugs of all types, by low life scum because of lockdown and social isolation ….

    Quoting paulybronco on 12 Apr 2020 11:30 AM

    Is has not stopped them trying to bring it back over the border into Qld. Some dim whit was caught with a few hundred tablets in a unregistered interstate plate car and without a permit coming across at the Tweed/Qld border

    Nearly choked on my coffee reading that. Not very smart, but then I have come across some real dumb arses in my time and it just makes you wonder how they can be so stupid
  • bloodog
    bloodog
    4 years ago
    Back 0n subject Fuck George Pell the fat sick cunt 
  • sherpa
    sherpa
    4 years ago
    It looks like the Vic Police are pursuing fresh charges against him from a different victim
7/8