G'day guys and gals,

Firstly I apologise if this has already been covered.. I'm very new to Harley Davidson's and this forum!

I have a question in regards to Stage Kits.. more specifically stage 1.

I have a 2016 Iron 883 (all stock at the moment) and I want to modify it a bit:

- Vance and Hines short shots
- V02 Vance and Hines grenade air intake

Now I've been told that in order to do this you must also tune the bike (also known as Stage 1?)

So if all above is correct.. my question is engaging an outside mechanic (because Harley dealerships charge $135/hr) to install and tune the bike for me at a lower cost.

Is there any information I need to know before engaging an outside mechanic? This mechanic I have in mind is experienced with Harley's.

Or maybe is there any information I need to know about Stage 1 kits in general? Where to save money etc..

I'm also located in Brisbane - if anyone knows of any other mechanics that are worth talking to?

Thank you to anyone who can offer me advice.

 

Its more than just that:
- The pipes and filter will in theory result in a leaner running bike, although if you have EFI with O2 sensors then one would assume the ECU would fix it.
- When they say a tune they are implying you have an aftermarket ECU unit and that it will need to be tuned on a Dyno; Unless you purchased a unit with an autotune function.
- You could send an email to V&H and see what they say about needing a tune etc

You said your mechanic is experienced with Harley's.
You must be going to him because you have heard good reports on his work yes?
If yes then surely he knows the answers to your questions and as you have picked him, run with what he says.

Apart from all that, As tussuck has stated, once you do pipes and a/c a tune of some sort is needed. Either a downloaded map or preferably get it on a dyno but other software and or hardware will be also needed.

Do you have a tuner? Powervision, TTS, SE Pro, etc etc? If so, get a good map, do it yourself.
Everyone felt weird doing it the first time, but it's really a lot easier than you think. Follow the instructions.
I went with a Dynojet Powervision (best for me, and so easy), loaded a map, and it was so fucking good I haven't bothered fiddling with it.

You have an 883 iron so seeking "ultimate power" with a proper dyno tune (expensive) is a complete waste of time imo.

A dyno tune isn't just about " ultimate power"
It's about ultimate ridability, getting maximum torque, getting afr's correct, throttle response, increasing fuel economy, reducing and often eliminating decel popping.....
Completely not a waste of time in my books and by my experience, no matter what the bike is

I agree with Bonkerz,

I went with a powervision just recently, simple plug n play and extremely user friendly.
Got mine from FuelMoto, told them what pipes & air intake are on and they created a map to suit. Ran really good with the map however have done a couple of autotunes on a copy of that map and runs so much better now

You may also want to consider the XIEDS if thats all you are doing, they work extremely well for what they are & cost

rob

If your mechanically mined changing the pipe and air cleaner is a pretty easy task that you can do yourself. If you go with a tuner like the V&H FP3 its plug and play via Bluetooth on your phone. There will be a map you can just load straight into your bike. Other tuners can also do this like the guys say above, so take your pick. I did my stage 1 myself, easy as. Now have a stage 3 but got the cams and pistons done by the shop, tuner is doing the rest. I wouldn't bother with a dyno on a stage 1 on a 883 as you will most likely gain about 1 or 2 hp so not worth the $600 for the dyno.

I agree that a dyno isn't worth it for stage 1 if you are going to keep doing other work soon after in bits and pieces but if you do some work and it is going to stay that way for x amount of years I still stand by my words that dyno tuning is worth it.

For ANY bike.. Even a stock bike. Even an 883

But yes has to be a reputable tuner...

By the way many moons ago I thought my custom fuel moto map was pretty good.... Until Lushy tuned it ...,
It felt strong but it was way off.

Thank you to everyone for your input. It has helped me greatly!

Adrian, if you have used S&S551 cams with 10.5:1 comp you will create tuning issues , the 551 has an inlet close of only 19° this will create spastic cranking pressures ,i doubt V&H would buy into trying to create a tune for your bike as they know the finger will be pointed at them for a questionable outcome.

I'd recommend Fred aka ProCycle Dyno. Have a chat with him and will answer all your questions and sort everything

Hoodeng,

The porblem with V&H is they have never run a bike with this combo on their Dyno and hence didnt have a base map from which to start.  After about 2 months of trying to get something that worked gave up on the V&H and eneded up using a SE tuner and Hallam performance dyno'd the bike.  Bike runs great now, even getting good fuel economy. Only 80HP but enough for me.  The Cams were recomedended by my Mechanic as he felt being I use it as a daily rider they would be more reliable.  Problem for me is I dont really know enough about cams in Harleys so went with what was recomended.  Maybe he had a spare set on the shelf...lol

1200 sporty 2014 model so supposedly has the good heads on it (buell I think)

not quite Buell spec but better than the pre efi bikes put it that way.

 

Good for about 90rwhwp.

The 551 cam you refer to is not the S&S551 , but the SE cam set 25197-04, which is referred to as the 'SE Performance' set , this has an inlet close of 44° which is a lot more amicable to the 10.5:1 comp ,but still a bit early .
Engines have parameters that can only accommodate a limited range of variables ,the fixed parameters after assembly are ,Capacity ,Compression , Capability of head flow ,and Cam,the choice of which now comes into play.
So if you have a cylinder of 600cc and a compression of 10.5:1 and a standard cylinder head which by the way flows reasonably well for the intended use but has standard valve springs installed which will limit RPM range and lift ,these parameters will narrow down the field of cam choice to the following .

Lift , you can only run a cam that will run with standard springs .

Inlet close point in ° if you have 9.5:1 comp you would look to 40-45° close to control cranking pressures ,if you have 10.5:1 comp you would look to 47-53°  for the same reasons .

Duration , standard cams have little overlap ,so define the RPM range of the engine ,adding duration but not changing the inlet close ° will add ability to make torque over a greater RPM range hence performance .

Having three already known parameters dictates your cam choices mechanically, not how you ride your bike or an opinion.
This is relevant no matter what the engine build is, but the relationship between parts change with the variables of the build ,so the discussion is quite ranging and can take up volumes which can result in too much information exceeding some peoples take up, a bit like Loctite.

If you are not going to do valve springs the S&S500 grind and the SE 25649-01A High performance will fit the task with adherence to the installation instructions that come with each,
both have 50° inlet close .
A visit to a reputable dyno will ice the cake.

12 HOURS....mate you were more than just stung!