I can only comment on rear . Persevere with the stock rear air shocks , and do the oil change first . Hopefully they are 13" . This is a cheap mod , and I am happy with the results .

Here is some stuff I wrote for another forum, edited to suit. I have a MY 2013 Ultra that had 4600km on it when I bought it in January. Handled like a bucket of poo. Wagged its tail on bumpy bends, bottomed out two up unless I put 65psi in the shocks and front dived under brakes so much I stopped using front brakes.

You should probably read this first as it explains the main problem. If this is not addressed first you just end up chasing your tail. http://www.hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/788610-bagger-wobble-exposed.html


I installed a rear stabilizer, as a starting point, from Alloy Art as it was inexpensive and easy to fit. There are a variety of braces available and you can choose one that suits your bike and pocket - just Google bagger braces.

This is the simplified version of how I sorted it all out, in sequence. There was a lot more testing and experimentation but I don't want to write a novel. The whole process was done over 10000km on the same roads, with a pillion and total weight over 620kg(1433lbs). Definitely a worst case scenario but no point otherwise. My bike had only done 4600km when I purchased it so wear and tear wasn't a consideration.

1. Made sure everything related to steering was within spec and played around with tyre pressures a lot. Pressures didn't make much difference to shimmy, except to make it worse at lower rear tyre pressures. (38psi)
2. Changed front fork oil to SE performance oil. This stopped it diving under heavy front braking and improved overall handling but made no difference to back end shimmy.
3. Installed Alloy Art brace. This improved it 90% but did not fix it entirely.
4. Played around with std shock air pressures even going to 70psi. Didn't fix it although the softer the ride the worse the shimmy.
5. Installed Monroe 785 air shocks. Changed the bike. Much better damping under load and high speed. Awesome. Didn't fix the last 10% of the shimmy though.
6. Changed the rear Dunlop to Michelin Commander II. Problem gone completely. The Dunlop profile is not symmetrical. When you lean over you go onto the left or right "shoulder" of the tyre. On flat bends that doesn't matter but on rough rough or uneven bends loaded that shoulder flattens and reforms as the suspension moves up and down significantly and slightly destabilises the bike in the lateral plane, causing a slight shimmy. The Michelins have a symmetrical profile which provides better behaviour.

Magic bullets are rare. Mostly there is peripheral stuff that affects or exacerbates the main issue, so often when the important fix is done the result can appear disappointing until the minor stuff is also fixed. This is the case with this shimmy. If I did everything except the brace the problem would have improved a lot but would have still persisted a bit no matter what. Same if only the brace was installed, but it provided the cornerstone to sort everything and turn the bike into a delightful ride even when loaded to the max.

The Monroe shocks are 1" longer and foul the exhaust so I had to space the mufflers out. That extra rear height was enough to cause a brand new symptom, a light steering shimmy, riding solo with high pressure in the shocks, when I took my hands of the bars at about 60kph(37mph) so I am going to install a lowering link. Just for the exercise I changed out the oil in the std shocks yesterday to 10w and reinstalled them. They are still inadequate. Damping is improved but fully loaded they bottom out even at 60psi on stuff the Monroes sail over. This did not re-introduce the back end shimmy so basically to me this means shocks have little or nothing to do with it. the Monroes go back on as soon as the lowering links arrive.

Hope thats helpful and may give you some ideas.

Good information, Thanks coolvirgo 54.

Thanks for going to that effort CV54. I'm sure many will be printing off your checklist to work through over the Christmas Hollies. Well done.

Lets see if we can get some feedback from others on the forum as they apply the same fixes. Cheers

I'll be really interested in how the new mounts go. I reckon you are right and its the way to go. I am just worried about additional vibration. In amongst all the testing I have done I have come to the conclusion that if the mounts go soft over time then there could be a problem as even with the braces there could be a vertical rotation which would cause a tail-wag on bumpy bends, unless a third brace was installed under the engine. Bit ridiculous. My ultra has only done 15000km. If I wasn't two-up and heavy all the time my handling issues would have been minor. At 50000km who knows what mine is going to be like.

One thing that bothers me is that if a left or right rear mount failed or became "softer" than the other side it would misalign the whole bike in the vertical plane and that would definitely cause issues. I am also concerned about wear in the Alloy Art brace and constantly check for play and tightness.

 

Dave

Gents i think we need to be mindfull that we are on 400kg +bikes here, the stress and flex running thru the frame must be huge as the suspension loads up on a bumpy sweeper. 

"Just for the exercise I changed out the oil in the std shocks yesterday to 10w and reinstalled them. They are still inadequate. Damping is improved but fully loaded they bottom out even at 60psi on stuff the Monroes sail over."

I feel a bit dumb at the moment. The amount these bagger shocks will carry is as dependent on oil volume as air pressure. The air and oil share the same reservoir so the more oil the less air space and vice versa. What this means is that with more oil and a reduced air volume the pressure rise as the suspension compresses is much higher.

When my muddly brain figured this out I added 45ml to the 300ml of oil I replaced in each shock. Great improvement. So now fully loaded at +600kg the standard shocks are not too bad.

Well, I take back that the additional oil helped a lot. Took my parther for a flog on the back over some railway crossing and dips and the suspension still bottoms out and is uncomfortable. Sometimes you think a thing is better because you want it to be.

So I put the Monroe 785s back on with a 1" lowering kit to give me standard baseline height. Then I took it for a good flogging in Ferguson Valley which has umpteen cool bends and was impressed. Not perfect but bloody good fun solo. It is after all a barge.

Took the missus to the movies last night and pushed the bike over a bit of rough stuff and NO bottoming out. The damping is perfect for the bike as far as I am concerned. I can alter air pressure on the run as well which means I can drop it on the deck for mount/dismount. 

So that's it for the handling stuff for now but I will look at aftermarket mounts if things loosen up over time. Not perfect but now great for a heavy, heavy bike.

Total costs were quite reasonable I think;

Front fork oil $25

Alloy Art brace  $200

Monroe 785's and air kits and switches etc. $240

Viair compressor  $240

Lowering kit $50

Fittings and bits and bobs  ~ $100

Take about $400 off that without on the go air adjustment and gauge.

"If you are trying to get your bike to handle, you are wasting your money on air shockers."

Really. Can you qualify this with more info? Personal experience? Other riders experiences? 

If I was mainly riding solo I would certainly use spring based shocks, but I'm not. I ride about 60% two up. My passenger weighs 100kgplus a little luggage so the weight on the back of the bike is frequently increasing by over 50%, so being able to alter the suspension settings quickly is essential. Two up with luggage my bike is maxed out. I weigh 106kg so we are looking at around 640kg two-up. Expecting good handling with that weight is a big ask.

Quite a lot of tourers are fitted with the 785's in the US with success. There is even a bush kit made for them to suit Harley tourers. They are inexpensive (although ultimately cost isn't a factor for me) and they have more load capacity than I need. They are not running anywhere near their limits. The compression and rebound rates are really good for the load I carry but the ride remains very comfortable and with the other mods handling is great. I can drop the bike 4.5" to make it easier for my partner to get on and off and can set pressures on the go to suit road conditions, which is essential running as heavy as I do.

I don't see any reason why full air suspension should not be successful on a bike. It has been used in automotive and trucks for years and is becoming more and more prevalent due to its flexibility of adjustment and ride quality.

Each to his own though as has been said. Our riding habits and requirements vary a lot depending on so many factors.

I guess I am a little disappointed though as I did a LOT of research and couldn't find a spring shock that anyone would guarantee would work in my situation with such varying loads, yet so many people bag air shocks and push spring based units.  (I'm excluding the original air assisted shocks of course - after all the messing around they are still inadequate - I'm putting them on my trailer lol.)

I take your point china and i may go that way eventually but at present I'm enjoying the R&D process as I did with the various technologies I conceptualised and developed in the past in other fields. I actually like the fact that the Harley provides so many opportunities for enhancement and individualisation. Its a big part of my enjoyment of the bike. The handling and suspension will likely continue as a a project the entire time I have the bike. Part of the decision to buy it was based on the fact that when I test rode it two-up it handled like a pig - wagged its tail on bends and the suspension crashed and banged as the dealer left pressure at about 10lbs. I thought to myself this is going to fun and interesting getting this whale of a thing (albeit a very cool and great sounding whale) to do what I want. I don't fixate on any particular solution or product and always enjoy considering potentially better options and tryting them.

My requirements do prioritise rider and rider/pillion comfort but predictable and safe handling under all load conditions and road conditions is paramount, without treating it like a sports bike. I have achieved that at this point. This may change as the flexible mounts age and soften but we will wait and see. i absolutely love the bike now.

Do the Ohlins allow for quick and easy setting changes for my changing loads? If so what is the procedure?

Thanks for the input.

I guess I would compare the ultra to the Chevy Suburban I had for about 10 years in my business and drove all over WA grain belt. Fitted in-cab adjustable damping to Rancho shocks designed for the vehicle and found myself frequently adjusting the shocks for varying road conditions to get the best ride. Because of the size and weight of the thing it was impractical, actually impossible, to expect one setting to handle everything elegantly from shitty corrugated gravel roads to smooth bitumen, Obviously on-the go damping adjustment and on the go adjustable air shocks like my ultra are not directly comparable but it makes the point that big heavy vehicles need a lot of flexibilty due to size, weight and varying load. 

I reckon the Touring Harleys are a little bit like the big SUVs of the motorcycle world.

I went on a run two-up with the Bunbury Ulysses club today with a new Viair compressor fitted with higher volume and pressure than the one I have used to to date to try out the Monroe 785's. I messed with the pressures a lot in the different conditions and speeds to really fine tune the ride and handling (pressure gauge and switch on the handlebars). We rode on a varying bitumen surfaces and conditions including Forestry Road  between Harvey and Forest Highway. There is a section of a couple of km which is old, repaired a lot and is pretty much just bumps and hollows and I usually slow down no matter what I'm driving. Just to prove a point I did the section at 120kph, hoping it wasn't going to misbehave too badly or bottom out too much. Asked my partner what she thought of the ride over the rough stuff when we stopped at the Crooked Carrot and she looked at me funny and didn't know what I was talking about. Yay!  Some of the smoothness i put down to the 4.5" travel of the Monroes. Some of it I put down to the fact they are only operating at 3/4 of their load capacity, with a fully loaded bike. Some is the damping that, even though designed for the back end of a Corvette, shows no signs of overshoot on either compression or rebound but is still very comfortable.

Not saying the Monroes are the ants pants and I will probably experiment with Ohlins at some point as per chinashop bulls suggestion, because the big achilles heel of straight air shocks are that you can't ride the bike if there is a failure, but at this point they are shaping up fairly well. If I experience any downside or handling anomalies as time goes on I'll post more.

Hope everyone has agreat 2017. 

I found a local bloke on the Gold Coast who did my bike. He put Racetech front springs and valving in the forks and I K Tech shocks for the rear, all up fitted was  $2k. He got it close and I have only played with the rears a little to get the bike good. It is a 12/12 Street Glide and when I bought her she had HD 12" adjustable HD shocks and the forks were standard. I asked for a balance as I wanted as much comfort I could get while making her feel much more stable thru the corners. I am happy with the result for what I paid. I could've spent twice as much and probably got her a little better, but as someone mentioned these are a heavy touring bike and that needs to be taken into consideration when looking at changing the suspension and what you hope to achieve. 

Well China . 

Please keep going. Betta an Spooky Space.Ha.