Festive greetings one and all ... was wondering if there was anyone here who would have any first hand knowlage of the pro`s and con`s of Patriot Defender pipes or Vance & Hines Compitition 2 into 1`s .

They are both a short pipe so not sure if tuners on here would recomend them but they are 2 into 1`s and from reading other posts on here there seems to be a definite dislike for straight 2 into 2`s when it comes to producing Hp and Tourqe .

The Patriots have this nifty little flap in side that can quiten down the noise level and some of the reports i have read have said it can be operated by a cable on the fly where other reviews say one has to adjust it before one goes for a ride .

Being short i reckon a benifit to both would be less scrapping as well .

Any views would be welcome , thanks .

Tim .

I'd probably start by listening to both (try youtube). You may find you don't like the sound of one, or both.

2:1 pipe on a Softy and ya don't want it scrapping go the Freedom Outlaw. I ran one for a few years and its a good looking pipe that works too

Bonkerz , Both sound pretty good .. to me anyhow .. the advantage to the Patriot is the flap that closes to quieten them down in the case of road side checks and morning start ups , wether it is a gimmick or the real deal is to be yet judged ... Fatbat , a member here actually has one for sale , so might ask him what he thought and why he didn`t stay with it .

Another query is both being quite short would they be legal , both stop short of the rear axle and I seem to remember something back in the old days that a pipe has to at least reach that far or if you have pillion pegs then they must go past that point ... again any knowledge of this would be welcome to hear .

Ando I have the Freedom Outlaw`s on my Springer and love the ground clearance and sound , especially when it comes on song when giving it a few twist of the grip but is not a ideal pipe for doubling , I actually run Freedom Independence on my Twin Cam now and really like them , sound wise and looks wise , but both my engine builder and dyno tuner say I will get better results Torque wise and Hp wise if I were to change my pipes .

There have been quite a few so called specialist tuners both here in forum land and in the real world that say 2 into 2 pipes will never be as good as 2 into 1 pipes , who am I to argue ... and same mentioned people seem to favour longer pipes so it is interesting to see other peoples thoughts and ideas .

Of course there is always the issue of Form over Function ... or Looks over Performance ... some of those longer 2 into 1 pipes are just pig ugly ... in my humble opinion of course ... Lol .

Mate I am running one of the pig ugly ones!!!! Supertrapp Supermeg. The jury is still out on the look, but the sound I am happy with. It's reasonably quiet when idling but sounds pretty good when you roll it on. After the engine work I had VH bigshot 2:2 for about 300 k's, then went to supertrapp and noticed a good increase all round. No longer obnoxious to listen to during a ride. Fatbat went to the supertrapp also. When down sth coast of NSW went riding through Macquarie pass and kanga valley. Floor boards are thinner but no scrape on pipe.

Currently on hols with bikes in brizzy and the rain won't stop.. Fk it.

Cheers. Bucky

Only some are Pig Ugly , Lol ... funny , my Dyno tuner recommends the Super Trapp as well , in fact he has offered to chuck a set on as he has some in his shop and throw it on the dyno again to see if there are any noticeable improvements .

For me if there is only 3 or 4 Hp improvement then it isn`t worth the change but if it is in the 10 plus ball park and more importantly for me a jump in torque then it will be something I will definitely consider .

I think the other reason I was looking at the shorter ones was the possible less scraping issues ... good to hear you are happy with yours in that department ... my Freedom Independence just by looking at pics and what not don`t seem to be lower than any others and of course are not as long as some but always scrapes when taking the Missus for a ride and we get into some right handers ... and we don`t even have to be hooking in .

Doesn't help that I have the rear lowered about a 1: 1/2 ... but that being said I just figured longer pipes would scrape even more ... we shale investigate , Lol .

Fricken rain is giving me the shits ... didn`t ride Xmas day or boxing day thinking I would do the right thing and not push my luck with the boys in blue what with having a few cold ones on said days but then it hasn`t stoped frickin raining since ... Arrgh .

Thanks for reply's guys and if any one has any figures they want to share I would be quite interested to read them , Cheers .

Tim .