Hi guys this is my first post so if a similar question has been asked please bare with me.

I recently purchased the SE pro super tuner so I could try and fix a bad stutter I get when rolling on the throttle in 3rd. The stutter only happens in 3rd but it also runs a bit rough in other gears but very rarely. My question is by looking at the attached photos what do you think would be the casue of the knock retard being so high when the bike stutters. Seems to happen mostly between 2500 and 4000rpm. The bike is a 2010 Street bob with a 103ci big bore kit, SE 10.5 HC pistons, SE 206 cams, SE CNC ported MVA heads, 58mm throttle body, 4.9 g/s injectors, high flow (performance machine) air intake and a 2 into 1 V&H comp series exhaust.

Im pretty sure any knock retard in the cylinders above 4 deg is not good and I am getting some readings as high as 8 deg. You will also notice when the knock retard is high the VE for both cylinders is a fair way below the VE new. Also seems to me that the IAC position rises up to 35 - 44 and then when the knock retard stops the IAC position settles back around the 17 mark. Also the spark advance seems to be quite low but again Im not sure if that is a problem oir not

I havent used a tuner before so I am only new to what all the data means so any info that could help would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

Watto

Hi, post up thr spark tables and VE tables
Thanks
Robot

I would definitely be getting this done by a good Dyno tuner, had mine done by one of the best (chalk and cheese) where you at.

Yeh Im hearing ya Hilly and its booked in for a service but its over 3 and a bit weeks away. Im just looking to get it so I can safely ride it the 100+km to the workshop and drop it off on my way to the airport to fly out for work. Im def not the most paitent bloke in the world but really all Im looking to achieve is to be able to ride it to the workshop without the motor going bang. If I didint have to fly out for work that day I would probably just hire a trailer and tow it there but due to work thats not an option.

I have reflashed the ECM and everything is the same as the downloadable tuning caliabration so I can figure out why the results are so different from the tables attached

 

Can one of the stage 4 blokes send you a map to see how different yours is and perhaps chuck in the bike. Might help determine if the problem is with the tune or something wrong with the bike

Can one of the stage 4 blokes send you a map to see how different yours is and perhaps chuck in the bike. Might help determine if the problem is with the tune or something wrong with the bike

Hi,

Can you send us your email address and i take photos of my stuff to send you, i got a map of guy in states and it was night and day over what dynojet was providing me, it fixed idle and stutter issues, its a powervision map so i send photo,

Thanks
Robot Johnny Come Lately

Hi,
Yes new base map, the map writer is a mathetican and applies his excel formula's to VE and timing predominately, was involved with drag cars and engine work for many years, semi retired now doing a few hours at a dealership in the US making maps/adjustments to tunes for PC, PV and SE tuner.

There was changes through the map compared to the dynojet one, just the warm up was so noticeable, hit start button, wait 15-30 secs and off you go, no stuttering, off idle, stumbling for first 10-15 minutes until bike 'warmed up'
Thanks
Robots

PM sent robots

Just wanna say a big thanks to robots for sharing his mapping data with me and a bunch of other really great info. Have compared it with the current map im using and there is some pretty big differences between the 2. Will start creating a map using his figures and see if it works. Fingers crossed

Ok so I have started to get the bike to run a bit better but still have a couple of concerns that hopefully someone can explain or help me with. It seems to me that when the knocking is about to start when playing the recorded data I notice 2 things. 1. The IAC steps start to rise in most cases from around 17 - 20 steps (Prior to knock sensors registering knock) and the go up to between 32 - 45 steps when the knock sensors register some degree of knock till after the knock has stopped and then they settle down and 2. The accel enrichment registers and increase from 0.00 up to 0.25. I have not changed the mapping in the accel or IAC areas. Is there any reason why this is occuring. I know when there is accel enrich it has a negative effect on the tuners ability to record the right readings. For some reason this happens almost everytime the knock isabout to be recorded. The bike is fully warm at 131 deg celcuis and the accel enrich and IAC position start to change heading up to a knock being recorded no matter what rpm, map, throttle pos etc I am running. Why does this happen and what do I do to eleimainate/stop this from happening. I have attached some photos that makes it easier to undrstand what I am saying.

 

Photo 3 is while the knock is happening

photo 2 is right when the knocking is about to start

Photo 1 is prior to the knock starting when everything seems to be running normal.

Also I know by changing the values in the bias section this makes the bike run more lean or rich depending on whuch way you move the values. How do you tell how much or how far the fuel mix has changed when adjusting the clsoed loop bias values?

get rid of them cams and try something else. Andrews 54's or 55's, S&S 580 or 620. SE knock sticks are poo.

i guarantee an immediate remedy and improvement, them 260's aren't for your build.

Cheers Hilly. I didnt even bother running the other maps in the end and have been running the smart tune feature to the point that Im happy witht the VE numbers. The bike is running very lean (Checked the plugs and they were white in colour and that is what is causing the knock ( I THINK!!! ). I have done 1 test ride with the AFR settings changed so the bike runs more rich but Im still getting the knock. The spark advance tables seem to be ok although they do go quite low when the knock sensor is getting a reading. Should I change my AFR again so it runs even more rich and see if that makes it better. Can I run the AFR so that its all running in open loop and still record the correct data i need without harming the motor or should I leave the base map AFR settings and try raising the closed loop bias and see if that works. Not reallly sure how to tell how much I am adjusting the mix when raising the closed loop bias?

have you tried just reloading the tune into bike, that is the tune map that was in the bike when it was running ok. Could be just a degrading tune over time, it does happen with some closed loop tunes.

Cheers hilly. That was going to be my next question is where on the net is some good info on tuning so I can have a read. You must have read my mind......if only my SEPST could do the same haha

Hi,

For that build and how you describe your riding style "hard", closed loop and clb would be of minor importance

Thanks
Robots

Hi robots 

I did 1 smart tune and after seeing the Ve results and compared them to yours the ones you have me were 20 or so below what I needed so haven't used them yet. When the tuner is in smart mode does it automatically set the afr to 14.6 to have the data. Might try lowering all the afr values using the afr you gave me, click the reset fuel values button when re flashing, then record in without the smart tune test feature to see what it runs like

 

Just a bit of an update for those of you wondering how the tuning is coming along. Well I have made some real headway with the tune on my bike. Ended up creating my own AFR after trail and error testing. Probably not the quickets or best way of doing things but I certainly learnt alot doing it this way. The knock is less frequent and with a little mods to the spark advance I think I can eliminate the knock all together. Certainly is alot to get your head around but once you do the SEPRT is a great tool to have

 

Hi,

Nah looks like you have made good progress in a couple of weeks, amazing, good effort, who would of thought

Thanks
Robots

hi,

thats good, i would check your plugs to see also if any cylinder running rich/lean or otherwise fouled, if just rich or lean take or add say 2-4pts of the appropriate VE table then check again, once looking good can always add back to VE table in WOT, cruise or idle if notice an issue

thanks
robots