Gidday all ... this is one of those questions that can go on forever i realise but i am starting to think of upsizing the motors in my 99 Evo Springer and also my 08 Softail Custom ... Not at the same time though , wallets not that big , Lol .

As i said i am aware there are a many things to consider but for example i am thinking of going with a Andrews Ev27 Cam ... Single fire Ignition , a few choices there and matching coils and leads ... adjustable push rods and fueling Lifters ... upgrade appropriate bearings ... and at 3 different places have a figure of around the $2000 mark .

Now in my mind i know down the track that i will most likely go for a bore job and then some form of modifyed heads and of course all the other things needed to do these jobs properly ... i would imagine the cost for all this type of work could quite easily reach up into the 6 to 8 thoushand ballpark area ... mainly due to the fact that i don`t have the mechanical ability to do the majority of the work myself and would have to of course pay to have the work done ... would it not be a good idear to just go with a crate motor that has all the work done .

Are there any guys out there that have done this recently and have recent knowalge of current prices ... like i said extreme amount of various issues to consider but would be courious to hear any thoughts ... this is the Evo i`m going to attack motor wise .

And this is the Softail that will get looked at after i replenish my wallet and recover from heart faliure at the money i carnt help but spend on these toys ... these things are a curse on me i think ... but i love it , Lol .

no advise but just wanted to say I love the evo bike, very cool.

I rebuilt my Evo, split the cases and did the lot. JE high comp pistons, black diamond valves, HAYDEN base gasket fix, upgraded head bolts. crank tested, Teflon coated the motor and tranny satin black, ceramic coated the combustion chamber, heads cleaned up, new oil pump and all new hardware etc. I used OEM parts and some aftermarket and did all the work myself apart from machining and coating and it still cost me over 5k, I could have got an S$S through some crew I new in the US for the same price as they were dealers. It would be out of the question to pay someone to do the work and unless you have contacts an S&S would be exy as well. If you could find a way to get a new motor from the factory would be your cheapest option as they were 3999.00 US for a black and chrome one, the last one I got was around 5k landed.

I`m not going to lie , I thought this was the type of question all the Motor Junkies would be all over ... it shouldn`t really surprise me though considering as I stated I don`t have the mechanical skills to do the work myself , so maybe people might feel I wouldn`t understand there idea`s ... fair enough I suppose ... a guy can only ask hey .

Thanks Steve ... appreciate your feedback .

Jacko , I suppose I knew the answer even as I wrote the question ... it is one hell of a expensive hobby we bike riders have if and when we choose to start upgrading our bikes weather it is motors , suspension , brakes or over all looks .

What bike have you got your Evo in and what figures have you ended up with ... like you say I can get a S&S out of the states that ranges any where from $5000 to $7000 depending on what I wanted but then of course there would be the prohibitive cost of getting it over here and then the extra cost of having it all hooked up with all the things people forget ... Carbbies , the right Electrics and so on .

There is always the path of someone like Rollies , but to be honest I haven't rang him yet as I imagine one of his complete motors may well be quite up there in price as well ... anyone know his current figures .

I must admit I do like the idea of doing my motor as at least in the end you don't have bits and pieces of bike motors laying around which like most bike guys do they end up never getting rid of them , Lol ... well my Missus doesn't call me a hoarder for nothing .

The flip side to that argument is if I bought a complete motor and god forbid something bad motor wise were to happen down the track then at least I would have a decent stock Evo motor to put back in .

Another problem is and correct me if I am wrong but there are not a lot of people around that are good at things like Head work ... I only know of one guy in South East Qld that has a fairly decent rep , a guy called Ollie , definitely don`t know him personally but from all reports he is one hard guy to pin down and correct me again if wrong but from all reports he is one of those guys that a lot of shops take there work to so it stands to reason it could take months to get the work done if you are not someone with any contacts .

I`ve heard of Hoody through this site of course ... is his proper name Mark Hood ... again I would assume he would be one busy man .

Anyhow thanks for your feedback Jacko and I know I am asking for more headaches but if anyone else wants to throw there 2 cents in then I am always open to idea`s .

Tim .

Tim
I would go a 98 kit with cams only mate this will keep the cost down and give you a big bang for the buck on both bikes.

you won't get the miles out of a stroker engine as you would for a big bore engine

TJU I am not a mechanic just a chippy who was pissed off with the quality of work in my area and constant issues etc, mine was an 86 wide glide and I didn't bother with numbers cos they are seem to only be a talking point for most. I took some advice off a performance engine builder for the best performance and longevity option and he was spot on. When the build was complete it ran great, too much compression to kick anymore but plenty of power. The first test was a 3000klm ride and it never missed a beat unfortunately I had to sell it as work ran out. Anyway don't stress about doing it yourself cos its not that hard, I sent the crank,heads and barrels to a machinist and he matched the pistons to the bore, set the valves up, installed the bearings in the cases etc so all I had to do was put it all back together. There are plenty of good vids around to help you do that and books as well, the knowledge you gain about your bike makes it well worth the effort. I know of a guy in Qld that might be able to help you out if need be

Thanks guys ... as always I appreciate the responses ... dropped into Rollies today ... lets just say a crate motor might have to take a back seat for now , Lol ... for the Evo was advised a 111 would be good way to go at $8,500 , that's before fitting , upgrade of carbie , upgrade of clutch and possibly a couple of other things .

For the Twin Cam , there 124 was recommended , priced at $11,000 , again the same stuff would be recommended to do as above ... I think reality hit me like a sledge hammer , I didn`t expect to walk away with a motor for under $5 or $6 grand but those prices are a little soul destroying especially when you take into account the other things needed to do the job properly and to be reliable of course .

Wasn`t all bad news , their new guy out front probably got the feeling I was in over my head and recommended a guy down south of Brisbane as that is the area I live in that has had great results with things like a bore job , a bit of head work , the right Cam and ignition , all done to my own motor at less than half the cost the crate motor option would have cost me ... now he didn`t have to give me that info so for me I consider that to be a sign of someone trying to help and not just push his own stuff ... of course the guy would get the parts off of Rollies so they still make a buck .

DaddyRacer , is your reference to not getting the miles out of a Stroker engine as opposed to a big bore one to do with the S&S crate motors or the 98 kit mentioned by HogBag ... trying to learn as I go , again very thankful for any info ... in the early stages the more basic / layman terms the better , Lol

Jacko , I take your point about not getting to wrapped up in the numbers game , I have been guilty of that type of thing in the past , not so much the bragging side of it but more the well if I can get 90 to 110 ponies out of her then she is going to pull like a train as compared to how she was stock ... I mean it`s a Softail , both are for that matter and I`m not expecting to be able to sit on 200 K`s all day every day , it would be just nice to get that drop a gear over taking some traffic and feel the surge through your arms type of feeling ... at the moment both are nice up to 120 but after that they feel like they are working way to hard for my liking .

Also absolutely agree that it is a nice feeling if one can do work themselves , the feeling of achievement is a wonderful thing but to be fair to guys like me out there and I reckon there are a lot of us there comes a point when you have to admit to yourself that a decent amount of mechanical ability is something I am not graced with , Lol ... I definitely fall into the Theory type of guy , hence the reason I like to ask questions then decide which way suits me best .

Don`t get me wrong I will give things a go if possible but I know from hanging out at both Jap Bike and Harley bike work shops for the past 35 years is that probably the one main thing all good Mechanics hate is when guys try and do a job and proceed to stuff it up and then take the job for them to fix .

It should probably be stated and I have in other posts but I openly admit coming from a Jap bike back ground and that is something that I am working on to get out of my system , trying not to compare apples and oranges so to speak but it`s not easy , Lol ... would greatly appreciate your Qld contact if you feel comfortable passing it on , wether it be here or you can PM me if you choose .

Thanks to all ... Tim .

long stroke motors wear there pistons down more often than a normal stroke , big bore piston travels @ the  same distance to get there 360 degs crank rotation & still have a  big size engine , last longer for a street bike or touring depends what you want it for , fast bigger is always more fun factor ,  but

Definitely a street bike only so sounds like a Big Bore Engine is the way for me ... thanks for response .

Tim .

I take your point Dave , you may remember giving me some sound advice some time back before I actually bought my TC when I was undecided between a EVO and a TC , well as history shows I ended up with the TC late 2012 and the EVO has now been on the road for a few months .

Definitely not bored though , having absolutely heaps of fun on both ... emptying the bank account , well can't argue with you on that one , Lol ... 53 and still haven`t learnt my lesson .

Confessing to being ignorant , yeah I can see how it comes across that way but to be fair to myself I just find it easier in life to be straight up with people , for example if a Bike mechanic is telling me something that is way over my head I`m not going to pretend I know what he`s talking about , I would rather find a guy / shop that is prepared to take that little extra time to steer me in the right direction and there is not a lot of those around .

Jacko88 from this site gave me a name to check out , I have a couple of others I am checking out as well ... I have been lucky in all my 35 years of riding that whenever I wanted any work done I`ve all ways been able to deal with the mechanic face to face , places like Gasoline and Wackers you only get the service manager usually and I find that's ok for straight forward services but the more fancy stuff I like to get more one on one .

Don`t worry I don`t go with the first thing I hear , I will take all the info in and take what suits me best , hence the reason for being here asking questions ... as you can see from my posts , this one and others , I tend to be a little long winded so at times I don`t explain myself the way I should .

You may or may not be happy to hear that in fact I have decided to treat the EVO to only some mild mods ... Andrews Cam , still deciding between a EV27 and EV23 , am I right in thinking the 27 is more of a snappier Cam and the 23 a more broader range ... a Single fire Ignition module with corresponding Coil and leads , looking at the Daytona Twin Tech , The Crane Hi 4E , or the Compu - Fire ... Chrome Molly Adjustable Push Rods , probably SE or S&S ... and Fueling Lifters ... upgrade of any necessary bearings ... already have the Thunder Slide kit through the CV carbie and with the high flow air filter and 2 into 1 pipes I think that should keep me satisfied ... for now , Lol .

The TC as you so rightly suggest is where I will turn my attentions to for the more crazier side of me ... although it will never be as wild as some of the guys on here that's for sure , it was never about that , although as stated already I can see how it looked like that from rereading some of my earlier stuff ... if I can get that nice bit of " Fark hold on feeling " with a Bore job and a little Head work to go with the S&S Cams and Power Commander 5 it has already then that will be fine by me .

Not sure if any of that made any sense to anyone or if anyone could be bothered to read it all but there you go ... Definitely appreciate your comments and feed back Dave and everyone else and if there is something else people would suggest doing to the EVO while I have the Cam installed then by all means let me know .

Cheers , Tim .

G'Day,

Sounds like a tinkerer to me. Been doing it myself for a few years, One good thing about having obsessions is one tends to collect information

about whatever one is obsessed with. Seeing as you have decided to tinker with the Twinny, you may want to have a read of this book."Donny Peterson.  

Unauthorized Technical Guide to Harley Davidson. 1936 to Present Volume ll: Performancing the Twin Cam"

I have a .PDF copy size 30.9mb. If you want it PM me and I can Email you a copy or burn it to disc and mail it.

I don't usually bother with anything past the Evo era, but found this on the net and downloaded it just to have a read.  

And Dave, if you are keeping an eye here and want a copy too let me know. 

Cheers, Cris.

 

 

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Gidday Don ... reckon you are pretty close when you say I am a tinkerer , can`t help myself at times , Lol .

Appreciate the Donny Peterson offer , but you will be happy to know I have them already ... the 1st 3 volumes ... a great read indeed , one of the reasons I am so curious about different things about both the EVO and the TC .

I also have another great book ... 101 Harley Davidson Evolution Performance Projects ... very good indeed .

Nearly didn`t have to worry about any upgrades this morning ... got T-Boned coming through a round about ... bruised ankle and the 08 Anniversary Derby cover on my primary the only casualties ... bloody lucky let me tell ya ... lifted the whole rear of the bike around and absolutely amazed I didn`t go down .

Young bird reckons she was blinded by the sun even though she had to pass another car waiting for a break ... didn`t see the derby cover damage till later and of course I was a idiot and let her go with out even getting a rego number ... believe me it took all I had to keep my cool , didn`t even want to look at her but when I did it didn`t help that she was Smoking Hot .

Could have been a hell of a lot worse that's for sure ... so back to my obsessions ... cheers all .

What is it with bloody roundabouts? , my mate in Sydney has been T-Boned twice in the last 4 months at a roundabout.

Thankfully you didn't get hurt badly, but good luck finding a replacement Derby cover, they are rare.

Cheers,

Cris

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Have a look at a 106 hot set up kit from S&S for your Twin cam, if your bottom end is OK and not needing a rebuild. If the locals dont have it M&M cycles will get one for you. The quaity of parts will be better and you can do it yourself. If your short of money use your stock heads and have them CNC ported and have the stock throttle body bored and ported at the same time at a later stage when more cash is available.

Your not wrong Don , bloody dangerous inventions for people who don`t know how to use their eyes ... the Derby cover was the most annoying thing , or more to the point me not seeing it and letting her off ... got another one in the same theme as my axle covers and other stuff , $60 ... was told I can order another Genuine Anniversary one through Dealer up here but haven`t bothered yet to check price as I don`t want another heart attack ... might not be to bad .

Captain Hook , your just about spot on ... have just about decided to go the 106 S&S Barrel & Piston Kit ... 79cc S&S Heads ... 585 Gear Drive Cams ... Adjustable Push Rods ... Fueling Lifters ... and upping the Throttle body to The SE 50 mm one ... plus of course replacing any appropriate Bearings ... The guy I have found to do the work is confident he can get around the 120 Hp at the rear wheel ... showed me some Dyno sheets of a job he had done recently with exactly the same combo ... 123 Hp and 120 Torque ... hell if I got anything near 115 / 120 I reckon I`d be pretty happy .

The EVO will get a mild Hop up with Single fire ignition and matching coil and leads and a Andrews Cam ... just still deciding on the Ev27 ... Ev23 ... or even the Ev3 ... I know there are plenty of other Cams out there but the Andrews are a tried and proven Cam for the EVO`s ... just have to be honest with myself and really think where am I going to be using the power the most .

I like the figures of the Ev3 , being able to rev out to 6000 plus , but I don`t know if I need that type of rev range ... the Ev27 has that nice snappy rev range from down low so I am told but flattens out around 5000 and then of course the Ev23 which is supposed to be a more broader rev range cam .

Have to remind myself all the time about the whole power to weight ratio situation ... if I haven't stated it before I am not exactly on the small side of life so these extra ponies in both my pride and joys are very much needed , Lol .

We will see in the coming weeks ... it`s all happening here in down town Logan , ye ha .

tim, I started with the EV3 and to be honest it did nothing to impress me so when I put the high comp pistons in and did the heads I went with the EV46 which is mainly for tourers after I was given the advice from an engine builder that did evos ..............made it go like a scalded cat compared to the EV3. A bike I rebuilt for a mate we went with the EV27 in a new factory motor and that was as you said quite snappy. Depends a lot on how and where you ride, I am 2mins from a great high speed road and the open country so I chose my cam based on performance in the mid range up. Even though its an evo and only a mild hop up it will still put a smile on your face and you will have a strong reliable engine that will outlast the disposable 120r club

 

that's the thoughts I have been having as well Jacko about the Ev3 ... as I`m not intending , well not yet anyway , to go the big motor on the EVO I figured the Ev3 might be wasted for my style of riding when it comes to the Evo .

The TC , now that's another matter , Lol ... and I definitely know what you mean about having fun ... I think it was Kiwi Dave from above reply that thought I must of been bored to be throwing money around like I am ... but hey while I am not rich I am in a ok place at the moment so might as well enjoy things while I can and I have had thoughts of using a full face Helmut when riding the EVO due to not being able to get the smile off my dial .

JUST KIDDING ... NO FULL FACE HELMUT , Lol ... people will just have to put up with my ugly mug smiling back at them ... unless of course it is some blind bitch nearly taking me out through a round about .

Cheers appreciate the feed back guys .