Can anyone report on their experiences, pro and con, with turning over to a local Indy shop the process of getting RWC, VASS compliance and plates for a post-1989 Harley imported under the personal import option?

A local shop, name withheld to keep things neutral, offers to sheppard my bike through the process. But after talking with their tech who does the RWC but none of the pricing, I really just came away thinking this shop was going to fleece me for a raft of cosmetic (and temporary!) changes to my bike. Several VASS compliance engineers I called seemed way way less worried about the items the shop were adamant would pose problems for successful compliance.

Is this an instance of the general phenomena that when there is a financial incentive to make uneccesary changes, those changes will be recommended?! Or did I just get a wrong impression and is a shop, who trumpets it is not what you know but who you know, a good option?

Ps: yes,mi have seen the huge sticky on importing. But this questions seems not addressed the much.

So you want people to advise you on a shop they aren't allowed to know the name of who want to make repairs you wont mention? My advice is they are a good store or a bad store and the mods they've recommended are right or wrong.

I hope I have eased your concerns, or not.

Bonkerz, I appreciate the sarcasm, as sarcasm is fun, but I think you missed the point. I implied I would not name the shop because it was my gut reaction that created the unease, but gut reactions can be wrong, and are not enough to impugn a shops reputation in public. So yeah, they can remain unnamed. 

And where in my question did I mention repairs? I said changes. And I labelled the changes uneccesary. Even the shop tech said they were unnecessary! Because I was talking about cosmetic changes said to be needed to gain ADR compliance, I thus focused not on the list of possible changes themselves, which by the way were ridiculously long (according to the compliance engineers I spoke to and noted I spoke to), but on the general principle of whether fleecing folk facing compliance tests was a common story here or not.

If you're gonna throw darts, aim better.

Same as if your going to read, read better.

The sticky that you refer to does cover this in multiple posts. All advice in that thread is to make sure whoever you use they are a RAWS certifier. That would be the main question I would ask the shop that cannot be named.

If your in the same State as Chopaweeza, I'd be using him, nothing but good reviews on here about him and his Shop.

I went through this process recently.

I'm in Tassie and no RAWS worshops here so I had to find one in Victoria to keep transport costs down.

Started talking to one guy and then bailed out because he was obviously going to be a problem and went to another shop.

I had purchased the bike on the net in the USA and needed somebody on this end to ship to and arrange compliance.

I believe the fees reflect their costs to obtain certification as well as costs of modifications.

They are pretty vague about details of modifications carried out when talking over the phone because they don't know who they are talking to.

Worked out ok in the end but you have to cross your fingers and hope for the best when you can't deal face to face.

 

If you're inclined to stress , this is not for you.

Subscribed - I'm going to bring a pre-89 (1986 or 1987) Sporty into Vic at some stage so am interested.

Bonertz, are you typical of this forum? Here is a hint. If you don't have anything to contribute, why not just move on? Other people made quite reasonable and informed suggestions over PM, so the question was not as pointless as you imply. Maybe the issue is just with you, tooling about getting yourself into paper wars, clearly suffering some kind of chip on the shoulder about the edumacated.

As for repair or change, well unless you assume there is just one proper way of doing something, to break a convention isn't to do something universally wrong that needs to be fixed, but is to operate according to something different in need of changing for context. But heh, you're the unrecognized genius, right? You know what they say to say when you can't keep up? Just call it a pedantic wank.

I'll let you have the last word OK. Does that make it all better? You get the last word 'cuz I can quote you, f**k eh?

I have imported 3 late model Harleys and used IREV every time, best service, best price. Nuwan 0422 807 393 / 03 9729 0669.

http://irev.com.au/

Update, on the slim chance anyone is interested.

I checked out all the folks in Melbourne that I could find that offered a "service" for personally imported bikes (that is, same place handling RWC and VASS Compliance). All except one were dodgy, suggesting innumerable changes being needed to my bike, such as all indicators and all cables and mirrors and NEW pipes. In essence, the big up-sell prior to compliance.

The one exception, and I am happy to name them, was Reservoir Hogs in Reservoir (north of the city near the ring road), who work with a VASS compliance guy named Nuwan (named above in this thread). 

I ended up going the DIY route. I found a shop, called Cruzin Customs in Moorabbin. They do not do VASS Compliance. I arranged my own VASS Compliance. The engineer agreed to look at pics of the bike and give me an initial assessment, and has subsequently dropped by the shop to speak with Dean the owner and they agreed together changes needed and not needed. I get the VASS compliance this Saturday. The only change is orange for red lenses on my rear indicators and the front brake cable (has DOT but not JAE). The shop is putting a temporary set of pipes on. The reason I went with Cruzin Customs is that he was confident of being able to fit temp pipes whereas Reservoir Hogs was not and was thus looking at either new pipes or baffling the Vance and Hines.

Overall the DIY options meant I was able to exert some control over uneccesary supposedly compliance related changes. Some things I learned, keeping in mind I have been living overseas since 1995...

- I have begun to wonder how much of bike and related-parts inflated prices (they are awfully inflated in OZ) are associated with compliance shops keeping parts in house and not being that interested in helping you source anything other than brand spanking new Harley parts? One shop in Melbourne CBD had pipes to fit my FXR but refused to sell them, lend them for a fee, or even help me source used pipes. Yes, commercial imperatives reign, but I thought the guys attitude (he was a doofus anyway) was part of the problem of inflated prices here, with part-hoarding a good means to inflate prices.

- Outright lying by shops doing both RWC and VASS compliance. I understand some bending of the truth for pragmatic reasons, such as changing cables if it is most likely but not guaranteed that they wont pass complaince. It might save time just ti change them. But outright lying is just bullsh*t. The biggest lie was three different shops, count em, THREE, saying the fact my FXR has an Ultima 107 not the original Evo 80 would mean the mis-matching frame and engine VIN numbers would not be approved by VIC Roads. But of course they knew people who knew people and they could take care of it. For a fee. So what does VIC Roads say? It makes zero difference. ZERO. As long as the RWC and VASS certificates each show the relevant numbers.

Overall, like anything in the bike world of repairing bikes, the task often revolves around finding someone you can trust. I did that. But this whole bike compliance business here seems to me absolutely rife with scamming. The problem, if you ask me, stems from they grey zone between RWC and VASS Compliance. It is actually the VASS Compliance officer that determines if something is or is not compliant. But most information about getting VASS Compliance sends you through the RWC process first, and at that stage, you're at the mercy of an assessment done in a context of a conflict of interest (more changes is more dollars, necessary or not). As with all conflicts of interest, some act with integrity (Custom Cruizers, Reservoir Hogs), others not (stay away from CBD Melbourne...). But as I discovered, one can side-step that dicey RWC-led process by finding a VASS compliance officer who is prepared to take a lead role. What the VASS Compliance engineer says is what actually goes, and VIC Roads confirmed that in cases of conflict they defer to the engineer.

Anyway, apologies for the long post. I don't imagine many are interested so I hope you tuned out and clicked on things you're more interested in reading. For anyone interested though I hope this one personal experience provided at least a snippet of something useful.

Well, good for you I say.  I wanted to go down that route but, well, I chickened out! The differing info and prices, and of course the "it will never work" people steered me into a drive away no more to pay deal.  Could I save money doing it myself? probably, but I just did'nt need the stress.

Anyway, I learnt something from your post, so again, good one for putting it up.

Pete

Further update...

The VASS compliance engineer told me of a consultation process underway (government and engineers) to phase out engine numbers. As some would know, in North America and Europe engine numbers are not required for registration, but asked for here. Some engines come with them, others not. The compliance engineer said the move is in process to eliminate the need for engine numbers (just VIN number on frame) at registration, which he thinks will add some extra freedom to move for those importing bikes with after-market engines (and sometimes with modified engines).

Anyway, they could not find the engine number on mine and the engineer was happy with stamping the last six digits of my VIN number on the engine. Technically not legal - making up a number - but from a compliance point of view the imported bike is a new registration entity so there is some wiggle room there in creating its now permanent registration record.

Also, the real kicker. Neither the compliance engineer nor the person doing the RWC is required to keep a record of the actually recorded decibel level of the pipes. Pictures, yes (he compliance engineer); reading level, no. I refer to this as the "scam level zone". There is so much wiggle room here that what happens in that zone is totally determined by how nice engineer and shop are being to you. In my case, because the engineer signed off on compliance, reasonable efforts to comply were satisfactory. My only advice there is that there seems little point having some shop pre-empt the VASS compliance engineers's level of satisfaction.

PS: I understand the RAWS process lacks the partial exemptions of personal imports. My compliance engineer said degree of changes to the bike for compliance is not the issue in regard to cost, but the RAWS compliance business recouping its licensing costs (he has been part of that kind of business too). He reported a host of additional "alterations" to my bike would have occurred under RAWS, but mostly to justify the cost needed to recoup licensing expenses!

Thanks for posting the thread on your experience Darrin, I'm one of the 'few' members who will benefit from it!

Glad to see you finally found an answer to your question, albeit mostly through your own research.

I'm overseas at the moment and looking at doing a personal import as well, will PM you shortly to clarify some points.

 

Packer

I think the reason people can't get their heads around the PIA compliance is that it seems very difficult to find the actual rules on doing it. Obviously it's far less common than using the RAWS scheme, and so I've found that there are different ideas getting around about what the process actually is, and no one can refer me to the state laws that say 'A PIA compliance must be performed by a RAWS workshop'.

I don't mean to second guess you Wayne as I know you have 1000 times more experience here than I do. It just seems strange to me that to bring in a bike that is a personal belonging would cost more to comply than it does to go through RAWS, especially when the RAWS cost seems to be inflated by the cost/rarity of RAWS licences.

If Victoria have more suitable rules, then would I be better off to import it into Melbourne instead...? it's not out of the question for me.

Thanks again Wayne. I normally live in NSW these days, however am from Melbourne, have all my family and friends in Melbourne and am in the military, meaning the rules for transferring rego interstate are somewhat relaxed. Put it this way - my car is still Vic registered and will stay that way.

Hence it's logistically more difficult for me to go through VASS, but is there a marked benefit in cost? Can you give me an idea of the cost difference?

Cheers,

Packer

Hi Darren, very interesting post, thank you. I am investigating importing two Fatboy Lo 's.  A 2012 and a 2016. Both are completely stock.  I want to use the personal import scheme.  the 2012 belongs to the wife, and by the time we relocate back to Aus we will have owned the bikes for over 3 years.  I got in to contact with a RAWS approved shop and they want $2500 plus GST plus costs for new tyres and anything else that needs to be changed to meet the ADR for each bike, but they will not tell me what the $2500 covers nor will they let on what other costs for parts are typically needed to meet ADR, what all in the end did you need to change to meet the ADR? The bikes will be in our container with our other personal belongings. Thanks mate. 

Muzzy Wa, it's been a few years since I went through the import process, but everything I said in my posts still applies. The only question I cannot answer for you is whether you are required to use RAWS if you are not in Victoria (not sure of your intended State of residency). Let's assume you are not. In that case, my advice would be to skip a RAWS importer service, unless you simply don't mind throwing an initial $5000 at the process. I say initial because that is the typical upfront cost (2.5k per bike), and then all the separate costs (like GST etc) start getting added on anyway. Your shipping cost won't be 2.5k per bike. In other words, if you have plenty of money to waste, sure, waste it on some importer. Most would say "spend the dollars and avoid hassles", but you might just inherit the hassle of being annoyed at being treated like an ATM!

Anyway, my understanding is that if you qualify for the personal import option, import both bikes under that option. An individual can only use that option once per five years, I think, so you and your wife will have to arrange to mirror the process under each of your names. A good detail to know here is that if you are shipping your bike as part of shipping other consumer goods - that's what I did, shipping the bike with my home stuff - many shippers try to swindle you about whether delivery of the bike is included. Make sure you have delivery of the bike to an address, and leave the address open, just saying "designated address", included in the package. Otherwise the local delivery service, which is usually separate to the international shipper, will try to fleece you a delivery charge. Next, scout ahead for a place to issue the RWC. I had the bike delivered to that shop. You can also deliver it to your residence, as long as you're setup to get the bikes running at your address. The battery will most likely die. You can also get a temporary permit to get the bike residence to RWC shop. It's a grey area in the law if a cop pulls you over with a non-ADR-compliant bike. Yes, some State agency gave you a temporary permit to be on the road, but you're still non-compliant. How trusting are you of police leniency?! As I said in my post, I advise finding a shop to issue the road worthy that is not associated with any RAWS or ADR compliance functions. That is, avoid the conflicts of interests associated with advised changes and that shop doing the changes.

In Victoria, VASS compliance engineers adjudicate ADR compliance. I assume other states have structural equivalents? If so, get the list from the Department of Infratsructure and Regional Planning of local engineers. Call around. Go through your 5 minute spiel about the two bikes, what they are, what's on them (pipes, modifications, indicators and cables). Pick the ADR compliance engineer that indicates he is willing to take a quick look at some pictures of the bikes in their current state, and it would be perfect if he/she can go to the shop where the bikes are or the home where the bikes are. Basically, you want the ADR compliance engineer to tell you what needs to be changed. The shop issuing the road worthy only touches what the ADR report indicates need's changing. End of story (assuming the bikes' roadworthyness in the US holds here in general, for instance our tyres have years on them, brakes in good nick, etc). Prime candidates for changes include the indicators (colour of lenses, spacing apart, non-integrated tail-light), the front brake cable, and the pipes if too loud. The ADR engineer looking at my 1992 FXR thought the tyres and brakes etc were all fine (roads don't change!)

Hope this all helps, feel free to PM me if you like. Apologies to anyone with different experiences and preferences, and if there is some big thing outside Victoria changing any of these dynamics that I am unaware of not having imported into another State.

Darren, I appreciate the time you have taken to provide such a comprehensive response, thank you.  I'll pm you with a bunch of questions. Muzza

It's like asking me if you should use bricks for the hot areas of a fire place or bluestone all the way through. I say brick they insist on bluestone for "the look" and sign a waver and say they built that part themselves and I finished it off for them against my advice " we've seen it done before". Late night a year or more later , wine, a romantic fire *FUCKING BANG* faces full of broken bluestone from hot air expanding in a bubble/s in the rock like I warned can happen. but what doi know I'm just a bloke that learnt Frm master British Brickie!?

Moral of the story/s...... If you know you know! If you don't ask!, if you ask FUCKING LISTEN to those who's job it is to navigate specialty waters!!! Grrrrrrr!! *Bang* it really gets my goat what yer saying chopper as I've had it time and time again from clients!! "CANT YOU JUST?"....... Fucking grrrr!!