Finally had the bike on the dyno today  trying to sort a few issue. Some resolved and some are not. 1 issue is the idle and I have another thread looking for injectors that may help with that, they may not also.
It came out OK I guess but it is short of what I am looking for and to be honest it is a bit under whelming to ride. It doesn't seem to lack any where but it doesn't have that " oh shit yer" feeling to it either, at least not to me. It did make higher numbers than the sheet attached (152/138) but we decided to pull some timing out of it which smoothed it out some.
My target was 100ftlb by 2000 rpm and 140+ ftlb by 4800 rpm, never had a HP number in mind as I rarely ride the bike over 5 - 5500 rpm and if it made the torque target it would have plenty of HP. Figuered targeting the shifting at 5000 rpm would keep the forward progression going at a descent rate. It didn't fall much short but I felt I was being a little conservative with the target mostly to save a little self embarrassment after over estimating my last engine build capabilities. . Ambitious or deliousional? maybe.

In part I got caught between 2 worlds with this motor which didn't help. I started building the motor for a dyna but shifted to a tourer before the motor was complete. Originally I was targeting 11.2:1 CR but with the change of bike I thought lowering it was prudent. Without buying a set of dished pistons I could only get down to 10.8 :1 with out changing the squish which I wasn't prepared to do or alternatively open up the chambers also something I wasn't prepared to do.
 
I think the CP is a bit low for the 640's and a bit high for the 585's which should have got me the torque I was looking for.
I can't see much else I can do with the current set up other than have another go at it to move things to the left more. It doesn't appear to fall over short of shutting it off so I think there is rom to improve
Any one got any ideas where to from here?
 

Wish i had some of that torque on mine!

cheers Guys
Davo yes it is a good result but not all what I am wanting from it.

Davo it didn't make 140+ftlb by 4800

not sure hilly roads were to wet to really test it out but it does feel a little soft
yes I'm a greedy bastard but I thought I had planned it well enough and put almost everything I could into it.

Still is a nice result from your efforts though. Well done is still in order.

Davo I have the 640's in it, I was considering the 585 with less static CP to try to build the torque figure.
hmm head work you say.
@28' 317 at 650 lift with 58mm throttle body and A/C backing plate no filter
@28' 293 at 650 exh

seems like every ones bike goes like a raped ape or 2 or they go like stink or like a dog shot in the arse but mine. Maybe I need to adjust my expectations.

Yes mate the heads got the Man's touch.

Just in case a few of the other builders log on and to help with those already showing interest
Maybe some build specs will assist.
124"
CP is 10.8:1, Squish is .040" HG, Deck height is .000" SE engine cases, S&S 4 5/8" stroke crank, 4 1/8" bore, S&S Flat top pistons -2.5cc for valve reliefs, S&S Super Stock 91cc heads, ported, 2.1" inlet valves and 1.61" exhausts, springs and guides changed. Inlets flow @28" 317cfm @.650 through the throttle body with A/C Backing plate but no filter, Exhaust @28" 293cfm @650

Chambers, valve faces, back of exhaust valve and piston crowns ceramic coated, woods performance rocker supports, S&S roller rockers
Billet custom cam plate, Fueling Race Oil pump, Axtell oil bypass valve, runs 52 lb hot oil pressure, relief valve hovers around this number
S&S 640 Easy Start Gear drive Cams, S&S Premium lifters with travel limiters, S&S Quickee push rods,
ARP bolts throughout motor.
SE 58MM throttle body smoothed and port matched, 5.3gps injectors, S&S Stealth A/C vented to atmosphere,
Drago's Dragulia 2:1, 3 stepped header and 3.05' bore baffle, 4.05" muffler.

Jagg 10 row oil coolers 1 horizontal and 1 vertical.
Bandit Machine Works sportsman clutch Grey Springs
Current model SE Compensator conversion
Torco mineral oil 20/50
Now have 2300kms on the motor

Just an observation, but it sounds like your build ended up the reverse of what you really wanted.
In other words, big HP later with less low down torque.
Especially if you don't ride much past 5-5500.
I'd almost guarantee a Cam change will go a fair way to fix that.
Something like a TR 662-2, S&S 625 , wood 9f etc.
Might need a tick more compression, maybe .030 head gasket.

Would be a great motor for a Dyna !. Nice one.

Very nice Max. You must have pulled some strings to get a run on the dyno so soon. How about a Supercharger or a Turbo maybe, im sure you would be satisfied with the power then.

Stop crying Ozy, it wont/doesn't get any better than that.( looks great by the way)
640's might not be exactly what ya need, maybe just forget the science of it all and wack a set of 625's in it. Call it good and ride the thing.
And yes I'll take that bait again, 130hp 106, yeah right. Spose ol mate will tell us it's smooth as and granny can't hear it either

I hear ya mate, but if I was in the good ol usa it would have made 150

Davo it's 124" so a bit more to shift than a 95-107 but its an easy thing to test with adding back pressure. Glad I didn't leave the original baffle in.

good one Lurker

need some others to chime in here.
where's Hoodeng, Lushy, DaddyRacer, Krash etc

there you go perfect example of 124" @ 10.8:1 making 148 ftlb

 

oh and the answer to this riddle is NOT " Just live with it"

I'd say a bit more squeeze with your cams would do the trick (about 11.3:1 + CR) which would require about 87 - 88cc chambers, or the S&S 625 if you want the EZ starts, work well with the CR you have now. - Rob

You have answered your own question, comp is too low for 640 cams. 60 deg close, you need 11.2. Then it will go more all thru the range.Currently it will feel soft, but good to ride. As to your idle, weeelll, it should idle nice..... :-)  I can sort that....   Cheers.

It will pick up power and torque from go to whoa, make the motor more snappy and more likely you will go, "wow it goes". It will need more careful ign work on the tune, but as said by Kiwi that cam needs it. It looks pretty good from the chart anyway. You could just ride it about a bit :-).

There are some basic rules with cam timing that will help keep you out of trouble ,one is inlet valve closing ,it goes roughly ,,30 to 36 deg with 8.5:1comp ,35 to 42 deg with 9:1,40 to 45 deg with 9.5:1,46 to 52 with 10:1 ,50 to 55 with 10.5:1 ,56 to 60 with 11:1 etc etc,this rule is not set in concrete as engine capacity ,RPM limit and intended use can influence the numbers greatley,that said, what we need to see in a street engine is a cranking pressure in the 180 to 200 psi max range ,under 180 you will lose some bottom end snap and above 200 engine temperature related behavior issues in some circumstances ,A light bike/rider combo can run higher cranking pressures and a heavy bike would run slightly lower pressures .
What I have just said is a massive generalization of only one aspect of cam timing being inlet close in relation to compression ,we have a myriad of cams available with narrow to wide lobe centers and separation angles ,symmetrical and non symmetrical grinds split duration grinds ,short timing high lift cams, long duration stock lift cams ,the list goes on .
In your case Ozy you already have a given capacity being 124 cu/in your heads have very good numbers so keeping the valve lift up is desirable {big motors breath deep and blow down long},going up half a point to 11.3:1 would be optimal for the rest of the combo that has been used ,the use of a 585 cam set would turn this into the ping master from hell ,45deg close combined with the associated loss of lift { = loss of flow} that you have worked to get. So your next best option is to go for 55deg close as in the 625 cam set and possibly use a set of 1.7 rockers to pick up the lift if you have spring room, this will make .664” total lift tdc lifts will be .202” so no clearance issues here.
Use advance /retard gears with high performance cams with caution ,the timing figures they are manufactured with is not random,,, unless you can find another proven grind that has similar timing/lc figures don’t become the test bench.
Ps, I have been head down arse up for the last couple of weeks,,, no peeking at the forum!!

Thanks Mark, pretty much what I knew but was hoping for some secrete magic trick only the select few knew about. LOL
Yep the CP is not ideal but we got caught out mid way through the build and it really was a punt to see if it worked out. I would say it is a pretty good result but not what I had been working towards for so long.
I am going to try to sort this idle drama out over the next few days and then just ride it for a few months, I will in all likelihood look for a set of +4 ish CC ( need to run the numbers again) pistons to jump it up to where it was originally intended to be. Not sure if S&S do domed pistons or not, I know they do dished for the 124
Unfortunately I can only calculate the CCP since I am using Easy Start cams but yea I would like to be in the low 190's or less. Adding 5cc to the pistons with these cams should get me 192 but I need to get my head around the numbers again with the adding and valve reliefs

Your just like most of the other sought after guys at this time of the year, flat out, lucky we don't do it like the USA, every thing gets done over winter.

Appreciate every ones input and suggestions

Have a great Christmas and Happy New Year to you all.

Cheers
Max