does anyone know how the stock 72 is legal in australia?

ive asked many people in the know about the regs, including custom builders and am yet to get a definitive answer on the most common of questions- the maximum handlebar height.

the regs are even confusing./..

the latest, a guy from a custom (professional) shop told me that any handlebar that is 14" above the seat height is illegal.

others have said that its 14" EXCLUDING the risers, others have said its 14" INCLUDING the risers, and yet others have said its 14" to the bottom of the handlebars..

obviously since its a fixed height, it makes it a crap argument to say that its to do with control- as someone really short is going to have the bars real high, and someone who's tall is going to have them relatively lower..

So i guess theres two questions... what is the exact, correct regulation, and, from what i can see, the harley '72s bars are well above 14" higher than the seat... so if thats the reg, how can they be sold as legal?

Cheers,

 

Tim

Tim, the answer is in the other thread. A 72 is legal because it comes out standard like that from the manufacturer.

This is the same trick they used to get HID headlights on luxury cars.

Tim
Why don't you look up the Australian design rules for motorcycle handlebars. Google is your friend.

It has nothing to do with above answer. Compliance plates are given to vehicles once a manufacturer has demonstrated that a vehicle complies with the Australian design rules of the day.

In VIC its got nothing to do with the seat height at all....its to do with the height above the lowest mounting point of the bars. Lord knows where this seat rubbish came from.

check out the ADR's as its all in there in black and white - this is from the NT but its basically the same in each state i think:

AUSTRALIAN VEHICLE STANDARDS RULES - REG 55
Steering gear and handlebars

(1) The handlebars on a motor bike must extend at least 250 millimetres, but not over 450 millimetres, on each side of the centre line of the vehicle.
(2) In taking a measurement for subrule (1), mirrors and lights mounted on the handlebars of the motor bike are disregarded.
(3) The lowest part of the hand grip on the handle bars must not be higher than 380 millimetres above the attachment point of the handlebars to the motor bike.
(4) Hand grips on the handle bars must be fitted symmetrically.
(5) If a motor bike has the head stem as the steering pivot point, the horizontal distance from the midpoint between the head stem bearings to the centre of the front wheel must not be over 550 millimetres. {this is the one that pisses me off the most as its the reason wht choppers with long forks are not seen in AU}

They are Australian design rules, so it doesn't matter what state your in.

explain this then...

 

its from the ADR.

http://www.mraqld.org/uploads/ADR/ADR%2057%20Handlebars.pdf

 

it says its not to be more than 380mm above the seat.... (not the attachment point)

and this..

http://www.mraqld.org/uploads/ADR/MOTORCYCLE%20ADR.PDF

it seems bikes prior to 1988 can have 380mm above the attachment point, and after 1988 its above the seat..

so basically , apehangers are illegal on modern bikes. any of them..

in addition, a state can have variations on a national standard. just like they do in law.
so they dont have to obey the national rules.

this is why its so confusing. the national rules are a reference that a state can choose to apply, or to refer to and vary.
 

this document explains this..http://www.mraqld.org/uploads/ADR/Third%20Edition%20Australian%20Design%20Rules.pdf

For vehicles manufactured up until July 1989, the application of the ADRs is the responsibility 
of the state and territory governments. Vehicle users should consult with their state or territory 
transport authority for the Second and Third Edition ADRs that apply to these vehicles. 
For vehicles manufactured after July 1989, the application of the ADRs is the responsibility of 
the Australian Government under the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989. Vehicle users should 
consult with this department for the Second and Third Edition ADRs that apply to these vehicles

 

My bad earlier....My bike is an 86 so was only looking at that date range.

The Australian Vehicle Standard rules are the base standards found in Australia.

Each State has the ability to make their own rules based on the Australian standards.

They all have suttle differences in standards and road laws. From different allowable mods to parking laws, speeds and the list goes on.

Here is a link to NSW rules for modifications to motorcylces. Also states seat to bar height. (I knew I read it somewhere).

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi28.pdf

And before anyone starts, I do note the difference between factory standard and modification.

 

Of course a 72 is legal! I know a Hawaiin Guy that owns one, but he can't ride it as he only has his learners.

If it wasn't for the politicians, it sounds a great place

Can you believe it...................It always amazes me the variances State to State!!

http://www.robbosmotorcycles.com.au/component/vehicles/displaymodel/8/1/Sportster%C2%AE/2000/Iron%20883%E2%84%A2

ive been in contact with the VMC. they say that the seat height thing doesnt apply in victoria, and that it has been the source of much traffic recently. The 380mm above seat height basically means that u cant upgrade bars on any stock bike that already has bars higher than that.

one thing that the VMC said though, was kind of funny for me, and shows that they arent really in touch with the street- that was "a rider will buy a bike that feels comfortable"..thereby creating a form of regulation.

i thought that was ridiculous...as pretty much every bike i try feels crap... but i know its just a matter of retrofitting it to my liking. if i could only choose from stock, then my choice would be very limited.

so basically, the ADRs for handlebars are a load of rubbish. the US has proven that control becomes an issue when the bars are above shoulder height- but no studies have been done to work out how low is too low also...

in the US, the limit is 15" above attachment point in many states, or shoulder level. some states have eye level and others have no regulations at all. but the majority have the 15" or shoulder height requirement.

The Handle bar rules are there for safety,
The Problem with Ape Bars is Breakage of Risers , As you ride you are pulling the bars towards yourself, because of the length of the Bars you are adding strain on to the Risers and they are known to Brake,
This is the reason why it is against the law to have High Apes . some States dont allow Bars that have Welded Risers , even Tee Bars

In Victoria this is the rule on handle bars and all the other stupid rules, from vicroads website!!

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/2F4D64FE-B1A5-48D1-B848-19CD5F8176D7/0/VSI4.pdf
 

The handgrips must not be more than 380mm higher than the point of attactment! So stock 72's a very legal in VIC

Perfect....So my chopper style pullbacks will not look legit but will fall within the guidelines of the Regs!

My rack and fork streach will not, but no-ones perfect...lol

yep... if u make ANY change to the stock bars, they have to be under 380mm above top surface of seat, unless you are registered in vic.

but, we are sooo lucky..you can go as low as you want. there is no limit. even if it is dangerous and not controllable, its legal.

regarding breaking, thats not really a water tight argument either, as there is no regulation on what handlebars need to be made out of. Without a minimum tensile strength, or stiffness, or weight/load and fastening torque, the breaking issue is moot at best.

the bottom line here is that common sense hasnt been applied. it seems that the US has the most reasonable approach..they have determined that shoulder height is the limit of control, so apply that. absolute numbers are useless..mind you, many US states have a 15" above the tree rule.

no doubt that the 380mm above the seat is just plain stupid.

Why do you think you carn't legaly have bars over 380 mm?
Iv'e just told you as some one the is in the Motorcycle After Market business , Some who Sells Handle Bars, Someone Who manufactures Handle Bars, and someone who has seen plenty of Broken Risers