Hi there Forumites and dyno experts. Can anyone help me with advice or suggestions on this please.

 I was wondering what would be the best time to get a bike dynoed. What month or time of year is the best generally speaking to acheive the best overall result. and why. My way of thinking would be during the cooler months, for a number of reasons, but i would like your feedback on when and why, and if more power is possible.

Air temp, humidity. elevation i know all play a part, and for these variables would it make much of a difference if say i get the ultra dynoed now in my local area at say 26-30 deg air temp, or would it be better to make the trip down south, in the cooler months. Say 8-12 deg on a foggy day for example if you know what i mean.

The reason i ask is i want to book into a reputable Tuner somewhere to get the ultra custom mapped to the mods it has. BUT i am also prepared to travel for the best result, to get the best all round tune for it. Plus i get a mini holiday and ride out of it too! I'm in Newcastle NSW, and i know there are a few good tuners around here but i get the feeling after reading the posts on here that there are a lot more down VIC/ SA way.

The ultra is a 2012 model with the 103. I've had the SE stage IV kit installed for about a year now.

You know the usual stuff. SERT,  SE CNC ported factory heads , 58mm ETC TB. SE 259E cams, 10.5/1 SE forgies, SE perfect fit pushrods. Vetilator A/C and SE 4" street performance slip on's. I think it has the standard injectors also as there was no alternatives in the kit. ( can be bought if neccessary). I want to keep the muffs as they are resonably quiet and keeps plod happy.

The local dealer installed this kit after 1500 ks. It pinged very badly if you gave her a bit, so i got her dyno tuned after a further 1000ks by one of the local boys, and gave her the full custom map. It went a bit better and got rid of most of the pinging but not all, and i feel it still runs hot. Done 8000 ks now. I must admit that i feel there is a lot more potential from the ultra, to get her running properly. i would like no pinging and for it to be a bit smoother especially in first gear where she feels a bit snatchy (it feels like all the go is in the first quarter of the throttle IYKWIM).

Still pings when you give her a bit but only under 3000 prm. Take off normally and ride normally and you would never know she pings. But up the ante chasing the boys, or say cruising along in 3rd, 4th or 5th doing 2000 revs and open her up and she says noooooo. ease up a bit and wait till the revs get to 3000- 3500 and then you can give her WOT. But it's usually fairly short lived as you are literally doing a recreation of the GMC in back to the future. Dont get me wrong, she does scoot along easy at very respectable speeds if i want to, but i feel i should't have to baby her and watch the revs before i open it up. I'm talking say overtaking a someone on a back road, ya cant just overtake in any gear, i have to concsiously choose my gear or be at the right revs to do so. (IYKWIM). 

H-D say there kit is good for 103 hp and 110 tq but mine is not quite getting that. Mine is making 99hp and 105 tourqe. I know it's not far off the mark, but i hope someone can get me 110 hp and 115-120 tourqe. Is this possible with my set up?  It's a big heavy bike and i am no feather weight, and this is another reason why i want her to go better.

Oh nearly forgot. The motor is a bit noisy to. Sound like rockers or push rods rattle, some people comment and when i quized the tech, he said they are noisy. Is this right?

So fellas, thats my story. I'm not sure if all the info you need is there but feel free to ask or pm me if you can help me or advise me on the best action to take. Cheers all. Hutch.

IYKWIM = if ya know what i mean.

Here is the dyno graph, final results. 

 

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Your stock exhaust headers are holding you back on the Ultra, thats why your torque curve is the shape it is. If you want to help it stop pinging take off the leg gaurds. Despite all you will be told,they make the engine get hot. Can't comment on the tune, but really wonder if that package is a good engine combo for a hamburger...... Oh and if you are cracking open the throttle at 2 grand with this combo.., well mate use the gearstick. This is a revvy package.

Thanks lushy. I know I can do better with different headers, but do you think that the muffs would still be ok.
Although I do knock it down when I want to take off a bit, it shouldn't ping at all is that right or not? Thanks again for the info.

The mufflers are ok. The headers are quite long as you know and the exhaust is why your torque is falling at a diagonal angle on your graph, and most likely why your down on top end power. It should not ping really, but WILL if the poxy leg gaurds are on. Take them off and go for a ride, you may get a surprise. BTW it is possible to tune your bike on any day so long as one keeps the engine within its operating range.

Thanks again for the info Lushy. Any chance on which headers to look for that would be suitable?
And I will take the lowers off this weekend and go for a spin.
I was also thinking of changing the a/c to a more open one, but I thought the se ventilator I have is already a heavy breather type. Is this true? anyone else know?

from experience HEAT will fuck it up good. It is a heavy bike and not particularly nicely geared so down shifting when getting on it would be almost mandatory for me.
Best time to tune it is right after you make any significant change has been my practice
there are a few stg 4 dyno sheets on here most make a bit more than yours but they are nearly all in softails and dyna's so different pipes at least

Cheers Max.

C'mon guys, help me out here. Only two blokes reply! Newbies get more replies asking what colour there oil should be! (no disrespect to newbies as some really know there stuff)
I took off the fairing lowers today (6 bolts and 10 mins) and am going for a spin tomorrow to see if it makes a difference to the heat aspect. I expect it should.
Anyone have any ideas on which header pipes to use that would be good for this combo? Thanks if yas can elp.

Thanks Hilly i will check it out. They know a lot about the "crack pipe" to i hear. haha.

I'd say your not getting too many more replies because Lushy has already said it. I'm not real switch on to the tec stuff but I know a lot of guys swear by Lushys work.

FLH, can't help with pipe selection, ( maybe have a look at Dragos bike works) , but I would suggest looking at changing Cams'.
A Wood TW400-6 , TW777 or Tman TR625 would spark up that build ( along with a decent tune !)

re reading your post and a couple of things may help.
you mention slip on's but nothing about the headers. have you changed them or modified the stock headers? If your still running full stock headers then you can make an immediate improvement by removing the cat and the control valve. take you a few hours and $50 at local exhaust shop to weld it all back together for you, Just did mine a few days ago.
If when you get it tuned the injectors are falling short assuming you have the stock injectors now best I remember they are 3.9g/s there are larger ones available from HD and after market.

I wouldn't be racing in to change the cam, there maybe better choices available but that kit has performed well in plenty of bikes owned by members on here. If the valve train is noisy maybe get the lifters adjusted, or replaced would be my choice just because I have no faith in SE lifters. How many km's on the kit now? since it has a pinging issue how are you riding it? I mean are you still reeving it out or trying to baby it along to avoid pinging? gently gently won't be doing the bore any favors.

I don't know the bike or the history but if it was mine I would consider
Remove the cat and valve or change headers
adjust lifters to see if it quietens it down and or replace them
run a good syn oil and keep it changed regular
do a compression and leak down test to get an idea of where things are at

since the last tuner couldn't get it just right and didn't seem to offer any suggestions to help although he may have and you didn't mention them I would try another tuner after the above adjustments and checks.

It's a heavy bike but it has better final gearing than the earlier models so things could be worse, pretty sure yours has an oil cooler if not consider getting one and I wouldn't go for a HD one either.
It may well just be that all the little simple things add up or maybe not but it's an easy list to work through no major surgery. Patience and persistence will get it done. It took me 5 months, countless changes and right up till 1 hour before I sold mine to get it just right.
Hang in there.

Thanks Speedster. cams from woods i hear are great, but i will wait and see how she goes after a new headers and a different dyno dude. (looking at pipes all night!)
Thanks Ozy. Stock headers. I will go the new headers option and keep my stockies just in case. I was told by tuner that stock injectors are fine, but would i need the larger flow ones for this setup? I don't know.
I hear you with the cam choice, If the other improvements fall short, then i would consider another type.
Done 6500 ks with this build so far. Noisy from the start and i'm wondering if adjustable push rods would have been a better choice. Can do that easily now though. Maybe head gasket was too thick to boot?
Stock lifters in it. I didn't think they were adjustable, or do you shim them?
I ride it like i stole it sometimes depending who i ride with no labouring issues here. Ran her in hard from the start to seat the rings properly. No oil usage evident yet. Changed it three times so far. H-D stuff, no syn yet but i'm thinking about it for the improved heat properties the syn has. (prob mobil 1 v twin).
The pinging IS the biggest issue, but i can control it. I just shouldn't have to i feel. I ride normally most of the time (as you do), no dramas. Roll it on gently and no issues, drop her down a gear or two and take off with usually no issues, but there is always the time when you open her up a bit too much for the gear, or to low revs, and it goes nuts with the ping. back her off slightly, and its usually good again.
As Lushy said, use the gears as it a revvy package is correct and i do that but sometimes i still get the knock when it shouldn't.
Definitely pings more in the heat and dry days, cooler, cold or moist days are better and it doesn't do it as much. (always use BP98 also).
I was traveling back from Uralla last year 2up, fully loaded, and it was a very cool morning like 10-12 deg and a bit of fog around, doing 120 in top gear EVERYWHERE, i mean up hills down dale around the sweepers on the way to the Barringtons, and never heard a peep out of her. Went like a champion all the way, plenty of torque at the 3000rpm mark, and it just got better the more i gave it and i can see why as it starts making good tourqe from that point. I could actually feel the motor pulling this chariot along. Good fuel economy too 5.5-6lt/100 ks, fully loaded 2up.
But 1 up around here on warmish days, dry, and it pings if you don't treat it right.
Anyway yep factory oil cooler (they are not real big but better than nothing i suppose).
Patience, money and persistence, and with help from you guys will see me right i'm sure.
So forum dwellers, thats what it is. Ironing out the bugs is required here. I just need a bigger iron i suppose! Cheers all Hutch.

Great feedback there Ozy. Good suggestions and a good way to show it. Thanks heaps.

Mate of mine bought an Ultra 103 Limited when we were in Florida at Daytona bike week in 2011

Rode it across the states stock bar Klockwerks Mufflers and K&N air kit . Ran just fine

In L.A. before he shipped it to Australia he had 255 cams and V&H 2:1:2 headers fitted ( no cat then y'see !)

( Got them supplied and fitted for so cheap by Aussie local standards !)

He then rode the bike across Australia to Perth BEFORE I helped him with TTS tuning using Kuryakyn Calibrations

Also switched it from Syn 3 to Mobil 1 V-Twin , with Redline in the box and primary

That bike runs just fine now , well grunty and shifts along for a " Bagger "

No excess heat and no pinging . On Dressers ( Baggers ) of that age the cat' in the headers is the biggest hindrance and easiest to remove .

Thanks for your input Retroman. Cat & valve will go if i use stock headers, and v twin will be a goer also. Already have strawberry thick shake in gbox. Valvoline type f in primary
Funny thing is trend setters I'm going to see Rodney Rude in november and guess what, he hates cats too. OHHH i hate cats.
Keep suggestions up fellows. Cheers Hutch.

I slipped on a set of Danmotos this afternoon. Started it up sounds reasonable. Will be out on it tomorrow so will let you know how they go.
All SS no chrome finish is ok if you like that sort of thing.. I didn't fit the headers but they look ok, again SS.
Mufflers do not come with a nut welded to the underside of the mounting bracket

A couple of things ,,,Lushy covered your exhaust requirement and definitely the heat shield effect on engine temperature clearly ,some of your own question you have answered when you said your bike ran well on a cold night,,,all the guys who had pommy bikes in the sixties and seventies before they bought Harleys used to love the ride on a cold night they all went noticeably better ,the reason was that they were all running rich ,these were the days of getting a bike on a dyno was unheard of ,the guys that tuned these bikes for performance and racing and got pretty good at it were not racing in cold dense night air so their experience was usually not common knowledge …That said, if your bike was running that rich it would be a pig on a hot day ,,its not ,,,its pinging as if it was lean ,,the temp and MAP sensors look after the engines core temp/load running range but they cant overcome restricted cooling air to the engine ..
I would not use set length pushrods in any engine I have anything to do with, that includes the easy fit range of pushrods these things weigh like bricks , valve trains deal with effects called stab pressures and lofting to name just two {another topic that’s too long to explain here},, A set of Crane or S&S adjustables set to spec on a set of quality lifters will give good long service life.
I have seen in a number of posts where guys get major engine work done and then ride around with a who knows what tune in the bike then get back to the dyno a number of K’s later for a tune ,,As I see it ,it needs to be pretty close to right from the word go that’s why my fresh jobs are on the roller from the earliest possible time ,run in then tuned and if that can't happen I get Lushy to supply a module with a tune installed that he knows will complement the engines build specs safely and then get the bike down to him when its convenient for the owners.
Detonation is not always audible as it occurs over a crankshaft degree range not RPM that is why it seems to go away after 3000rpm or so that is because it has shortened in its event time as the RPM climbs it has gone into the audible range of your dog!

Your combo is a fairly revvy package but It looks like you will get it right mate.

Thanks again lads for good info. Ok I'm getting closer to what i want. Found out I have the larger flow injectors in Tigger already so that's a bonus.
Keeping orig headers, decated and deflaped. Fairing lowers are off. New roller rockers, lifters. And pushrods i'm hearing. But what is wrong with the SE "perfect fit" ones i ask?. Just want some clarification on this matter as to why, when "perfect fit" should be just that, or isn't it? (I Will go the crane or s&s because Mark knows what i need and why. That's good enough for me cause he is the expert)
I'm thinking of taking the heads off for an inspection to make sure there is no damage, What's the go with head gaskets and which ones should i go for when putting it back together. I read talk of the .030" cometic brand ones to get the CR right. Is this true, or is oem fine.
Also should i get the stronger cylinder/head studs, and the forged rocker supports with this setup? Do I need them? Thanks for the help guys.

Hoody and others will give you a better answer than me but I am bored right now so here goes.

SE PF push rods are the perfect length for what motor? fuck knows, because every motor will have some assembly and manufacturing tolerances. That may or may not be suitably taken up by the lifters. YOUR motor might just need a little more adjustment to get it just right but the SE PF doesn't allow you to do that. You mentioned changing head gaskets, there's .015" lost already.
Your header will be fine just get some descent mufflers. SS make some good ones. the danmoto's I tried I think for the money are brilliant.
S&S lifters and push-rods will be as good as you can get, some have other preferences but S&S are always mentioned in the top 2 or 3
Cometic is the brand name gasket to go to apparently. be careful with using .030" as it will raise the CP but will tighten the squish over stock considerably, some say .040-.045 squish is desirable. I am no expert so seek further advice.
If you are pulling the heads then you can measure what the deck height is and consider a gasket from there. The CP you go to should be in consideration of the cam to be used. get the squish correct and adjust the CP by piston shape or combustion chamber volume.
Rocker gear should be fine as long as it is in good condition.

there now I am not bored any more.