Forget about Pro tuner kits, PV, TTS kits, replacement ECU's, auto tune kits, no more re flash's or guessing which tune might be suitable, now you can just tune your Harley without all those expensive modules. Change the VE tables, adjust ignition curves... for both cylinders. If all you want is a tune then it can now be done.

Ride in, ride away, you will feel the difference

All comments and questions welcome

 

Are you a sponsor of this site?

dedge Stock Poster Posts:5 Victoria My pics

31 Jul 2013 1:30 PM Quote ReplyAlert  Firstly I'm a professional tuner with over 30 yrs experience on motorcycles, my company is www.dynobike.com The popping on decal can be almost completely eliminated if the bike is tuned correctly, that problem is relatively easily sorted. Your main problem is that you need to tune that bike to suit your modifications. Down loading a map may help however the bike will without doubt go from running lean to running rich, which is as bad for engines as a lean condition. Every bike is different and to get the best out of them they require custom mapping. Front and rear cylinders run quite different mixtures and therefore need to be set up with there own maps. Also you have narrow band O2 sensor running, be careful. If you are not going to use the Pro tuner as it is intended, ie making a custom map, its a waste of money! We can do a custom tune for you $750.00 ride away, no module add on is required, we tune your ECU directly, you won't believe the difference this makes. Super smooth power delivery, better than stock fuel economy, none or minimal popping, superior acceleration. "feel the difference"

 

Introduced himself for who he is . Very upfront , and laid his cards on the table . Go Dedge .

Hi,

I think good move offering fixed price dyno tune dedge.

Thanks
Robots

I get all that with an Auto Tuner, except 2/3rd's the price & it's plug in play.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Table with the differences listed using a Auto Tuner Versus a Tune on a Rolling Road.

Ok, no I'm not a sponsor of this or any other site, I'm motorcycle mechanic, I love motorcycles and have been around them most of my life. I'm also very well qualified in this area with some 33yrs of experience. I see a lot written on the forums regarding tech issues, EFI system and the like. Anyone who is an expert in there chosen feild would understand where I'm coming from, miss guided information is everywhere.

Some guys may well have an understanding in some way. enough to take on tuning jobs themselves, good on them for having a go. I on the other hand do this every day and most people don't understand it or wish to. They just want to ride there bikes, are happy to pay for a service in the knowledge that there $40,000 plus investment will be done correctly.

I have joined this site to enlighten some of those who are totally confused as one chap above now is, because of the wide range of suggestions being offered up to them.
If you want to tune your own bike, I get that, you don't think you need a dyno, I'm fine with that. Happy with an auto tune kit, hey that's great to,(like to talk about some more later). But also get this, some of these poor buggers don't have guys like you living next door so they have to go to a professional, and yes we are making a living out of it, last time I checked that's not a crime.

On the subject of dyno's, 22 yrs ago I bought the first Dynojet Dyno in Australia, everyone in the industry knock it and said I wouldn't last 5 mins....."dynos don't work on motorcycle mate" they all said. How many dyno shops are around now and why.
Please don't knock something you haven't tried or perhaps don't fully understand.
I've not joined this site to spoil anyone's party. I'm simply offering my expertise, experience, and "proven tested factual knowledge gained, if people don't want to tap into that I'm not bothered, but just keep in mind some people might want to.

I welcome all your questions, if I don't have the correct answer I will try to find it

 Hi,

the biggest confusion/misunderstanding/discussion dedge is for the stage1 on the newer bikes, the simple air intake and after market exhaust, oh it's ffascinating 

for every 1 who goes to cams there probably 5 who no nothing but exhaust and ac, there a lot of fear about lean condition yet you see stuff all AFR charts posted up from a stock bike or a stage1 bike with tuner or no tuner 

i seen AFR just recently, guy had just done cam change, xieds, SE air intake and monster duals and AFR never went over 14.6 and trended most between 13-14, he was advised to get ttuner 

but for performance I can understand the dyno tune and module is required, 

thanks

robots

 

 

Hi dredge,

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking Dyno Tuning, I've used Dyno services in the past trying to balance and tune Weber side Draughts on my R/T,

If I didn't change my Baffles on my Scooter as much as I do, I'd probably get my Scooter Dynoed as well, since I like changing baffles often, the Auto Tuner works a treat for me.

Looking forward to an compasion one day if someone was to run an Auto Tuned bike against an Dyno Tuned Bike.

It's always great to have people with experience pass on their knowledge to other forum members, members will have different views on a range of topics, thats what makes this such a great site.

cheers

allde

 

You are only looking at a very small part of whole picture. Most of what you see is full throttle runs, unfortunately to stay alive we don't ride at full throttle everywhere, in fact we are hardly ever at full throttle in reality. Even on a race bike when you look at the data over an entire lap the throttle is fully open for about 10% of that time, it spends most of the time either closed or partly open.

14.6 is lean, that is a fact, If I have a modified bike I most defiantly don't want to see numbers that high. Yes that bike will probably run for ever with those numbers, you see it all the time on these forums.
Four stroke engines are very forgiving in that regaurd. Is it good for your engine long term, no it's not. Is smoking good for you long term? We all no the answer to that

To get the complete picture we need to look at mixtures at say 5% throttle, 10-20-40-60%. I'll bet it will running lean in these area's and most likely be worse where you spend most of your time ie 5-10%. 14:8-15 is not uncommon
If Harley could choose where to set those mixtures it would not be at 14.6. They are in the business of selling bikes and to do so the EPA and Enviro boys say this is what you have to run them at if you want to sell bikes.

Will it cause engine problems down the road, no it wont, however they are selling stock bikes with low compression, soft ignition timing, and small camshafts . Can that bike run more efficiently, smoother, run cooler, have better throttle response, produce more power at 13.2:1. the answer is absolutely yes.

I hope I've cleared that up some what for you. The bottom line is there is no right or wrong answer, if you're happy with the way it runs don't do anything, on the other hand if you want to make it run as above then get it tuned. You wont regret it

"feel the difference"

Thanks Darke peak, question does the "Power Vision Tuner" operate as a Fuel Management system where you have to adjust which Map you use,
plus adjust pots for the finer tuning, or is it like the "TAB EFI Auto Tuner" that I use, which uses Dynamic Mapping, which tunes on the fly continuously?

Darkes example of a dyno tune V's auto tune is very interesting, and there is a very good reason for it. I'll save that for another time.

At the end of day I'll tune with what ever I have on hand, it makes no difference to me.
If on the other hand you were to say here's all these tuners use anyone you want I don't care how much it cost's, I'll go PV or as this discussion is about no modules at all just the straight tune every time. They will all do the same job of correcting AF at the end of the day that's a fact, however when you get to use different systems as I have I find PV easier and quicker to navigate. I believe the layout is better, if you have ever clicked the wrong box and had to go back in and find the problem you will know what I mean. PV tech backup and support is better, well frankly they are the only company in this country that have product support.

In terms of what AF is better, that can really only be determined by look at the resulting power delivery and the intended use of the vehicle. Some engines like leaner or rich fuel than others. 13.2 is a general guide it's not the rule that has to be achieved at all cost's. In general a Harley will like 13-13.2 for good acceleration and peak power figures. If using fuel with high oxygen content then maybe as rich as 12.8:1
In the crusing zone 13.5-13.6 is the norm, for a good balance of economy V's power

Stinkfinger, as I said earlier it will run for ever with those numbers, and if that's what the customer wants hey I'll give it to him, doesn't bother me. However he'll have a bike that's very sensitive to small throttle openings, will hesitate when crusing, run hot and won't be as responsive.
Then of coarse there is issue of fuel quality. He lives in the US and we all know that they think the rest of us live in same environment as them. Your going into an area that most people don't care about and is very complicated and reliant on a hole bunch of things being in perfect condition.
I like to deal in facts and fact is that the engine runs much smoother, cooler, responds better with fuel numbers I suggested before and is just as economical if not better. Reason, we now have more power so less throttle is required to achieve the same result which means better fuel economy.

I hear you. 14.7 has been scientifically measured to produce what is known as clean burn. In other words there is nothing left of either air or fuel after the burn, it's all gone. However it does take into account your engines volumetric efficiency, cam design, cam overlap or timing or ignition timing, combustion chamber design, intake design, exhaust design and so on. It also does not take into account fuel quality, how old the fuel is, how much moisture is in the air today, how hot is the air today, or is it a cold day. Then there's the variations in additives that are added to fuels, we all know our fuel is not that great. As you said heat is a factor in achieving a clean burn also. Clearly we need to generate heat, which we have very limited control of with a Harley.
Stoichiometry test's are carried out in a very controlled environment and in the case of gas combustion it's looking at just 2 components. If only it were that simple.
I ask you a question with respect, do you understand what he was talking about, frankly I'm not sure he fully understands. It really doesn't matter what that number is. I said early no two engines are the same, nowhere does it say we have to achieve a piticular A/F number because there are just far to many other variable's.

Electronics have made achieving that number much easier as Steve said, is it correct to achieve that number just because we can and base it on one science test involving only 2 components? How old is the basic design of the auto combustion engine? It has got better over the years, however its no where near perfection and it's volumetric efficiency is still less than perfect. On the other hand electronics have made big in roads in automotive technology, now can you see the imbalance?
The nice thing about a dyno is its ability to measure power, torque and air/fuel. Plus we can actually ride the bike at the same time to feel what is going on under us, just like science can measure what ratio will give us a clean burn, we can measure what ratio will give this engine the best result in terms of not just power, but efficiency, smoothness, response etc etc. If your bike is more responsive and feels much nicer and happier at 13.8/13.5/13.2, are you still going chase figures of 14.7. That wouldn't make any sense would it?

I don't really give a toss what that number is frankly, I don't care about theory's (sure I'm aware of it), lab tests, or anything else. The only thing that's important, is measureable reputable result, if the engine I'm working with today happens to like 14.7 that's fine by me. If it likes 13, that's fine too, who cares! The key is not in a science report or what someone else has said, it's in measureable factual, real world results.

So don't get yourself all bent out of shape about it. Stop reading and start doing. And don't take to much notice of all the rubbish that you read on the internet/forums. All you need be concerned with is measureable, repeatable results and let the A/F numbers do there own thing.

thats a pretty good result for you, bet it's fun to ride with that torque

Question for Dedge,

I can except your prefered tuner of choice is the Power Vision.  My question is regards to you being able to acsess my bikes ECM ,(to perform adjustments), with your " Workshop" Power Vision module.   The term I belive used is the KEY.    Why does the Power Vision, (Dyojet) manufacturer allow this ???     Would'nt  they be doing themselves out of  Power Vision sales ??.    Do any other Advanced tuner manufacturers allow the ability to abtain the so called " KEY" and do what you can do with the Power Vision tuner ???

A simple example,     to get a simple stage 1 download flashed  to my bike , I first have to purchase the sepst harley tuner for approx $580 so the dealer can talk to my bikes ECM.  I have read in the USA  you can just ride in , pay approx $150 and the dealer will flash you ECM without having to buy the sepst harley tuner . would you be able to elaborate on this ??

The reasons for these questions,, is so where talking apples with apples, so I know what I may be  getting !! 

Seems a good option for the majority of Harley riders.    Oh bye the way , just a thought,    any chance of shaving a bit off your  quoted $750 tune, (ride away )  say, for a September special to get a bit of traffic through your door  ????     I'll be down your way then .   Cheers Mark     

As far as I know which could be completely wrong, an individual can purchase a key to use the PV on a second ECM. However I believe that dynojet has an arrangement with approved service centers that a fee per access is charged but use is not limited to 2 only ECM's.
Why, maybe because it stops the need to buy a tuner which maybe another brand I guess.

Makes sense. It'll encourage tuners to use and specialise in that product, which has a number of advantages to the vendor's product.

Blah

Thanks Dark Peak for your responce, Dynojet's web site explains all about getting a licence or key, so the Power Vision can be used on multiple bikes, (ECM's). You never stop learning !!! So if you have done your research and are satisfied to have your bike tuned by a reputable tuner,(on a dyno), that prefers the Power Vision tuning device, it seems a good option for the people that don't want to go down the road of DIY tuning !! You just have to way up the costs, and time and effort between ride in, ride away, with a well tuned bike, or buy the Power Vision device,(or another advanced tuning device), ride in , pay for the bike to be tuned, (on dyno), ride away, and have your tuner of choice either on your bike or in your cupboard at home waiting for futher upgrades. The last option , is buy a a reputable advanced tuning device with all the bells and whisles, make sure you have a laptop computer, learn how to navigate through the software, learn all the parameters of tuning a EFI bike, tweek things ,ask questions on the internet and tune the bike yourself. Does that sound about right !!!! Ride Safe , Cheers

 Hi,

yeah good discussion Mark, the Powervisin definitely looks like the premium product and the way it connects is superb as some bikes it's pretty tight under the seat

my personal opinion is $750 to walk out without a "unit" is a bit high, that's life and everybody's decision, I have been reading on the US site  about the effort in home tuning with the Powervision and its a lot of work but most enjoyable

i think if you do Km's, cruise the open road, wind in the air, fists out front, travel the long and colourful road, chase the white light then I understand you can load different maps onto the Powervision which go on bike and can be set up for cruising

thanks

robots