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shovelhead oil leaks

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  • jimmy_ricard
    jimmy_ricard
    12 years ago

    Hey readers,

    Need some help with my 79 shovel. Have fitted new ultima oil pump and at the same time separately sealed my primary. Am having issues with oil leaking badly from lower engine breather when engine is shut down. When running the breather is sucking. How can i stop this?

    Also, how much oil should i run in my primary now that it is a seperate case.

    Thanks in advance.

  • daddyracer56
    daddyracer56
    12 years ago

     fuck that ultimate crap off your motorsickle 

  • houli
    houli
    12 years ago

    That sounds like your wet sumping badly, the pump is delivering more than it can scavenge, does it stop shortly after start up? if so the ball and seat are not sealing, don`t know much about ultima a bit too new for me, is the pump for your motor, do all the oil holes line up? have you drilled the cases for a later pump? is the breather gear timed correctly? what was wrong with the old pump? as for level in primary, had a mate who reckoned he was told add 150ml ended up fking the chain about 500k from home, i`d add a decent amount just touching  or over chain and if clutch never slipped leave it at that.

    Daddyracer seems to know his stuff, his recommendation that ultima is shit is good enough for me.................

  • sambo
    sambo
    12 years ago

    What was the reason for changing the pump???. if the old one was working then put it back. its not just a case of fitting an oil pump to a shovel and expect everything to work. Dont know about the ULTIMATE pump but S&S has a multi step procedure that involves a drill jig and drilling the case to suit, I have done a lot of them and they work well after. Sealing the primary, enough oil so the starter driven gear on the clutch hub touches the oil. Not enough you will fuck the chain, to much the clutch will slip, but advice is, put it back as factory.  My 70 FLH is the  factory set up , the primary chain gets the right amount of oil and the scavenge side of it works well, the oil is filtered before it ends up in the tank so there is no chance of clutch fibres that there is fuck all of, going through the engine...

  • walka
    walka
    12 years ago
    Ultima Oil Pumps are for EVO Engines , Not Shovels,
  • jimmy_ricard
    jimmy_ricard
    12 years ago

    Cheers for the responses!

    Update on situation is that parts have been ordered to convert primary from chain to belt.

    Oil pump: If i start the bike the lower breather is sucking hard and not leaking any oil. The breather that goes to the oil tank is blowing. When the bike is shut off there is a gurgle sound for a couple of seconds from the lower breather and then a steady flow of oil which slows and eventually stops after a minute or so. When i was fitting the new pump all oil galleries appeared to line up and no holes were drilled (Although after you guys mentioned the possibility of holes being out of line etc a double check may be in order). When installing new pump the timing was not touched but i did not check the timing on the breather because i assumed it would be ok as it was. The pump was changed as the lower breather was leaking oil on start up after sitting for a long period of time and i suspected the valve was not seating correctly/worn.

    I have looped the feed and scavenge on the pump that was used for the primary before i decided to seal it. Would this effect anything?

    Hope i have answered all the questions you guys need to help me solve this problem! Appologies for the novel!

    Thanks again guys.

  • jimmy_ricard
    jimmy_ricard
    12 years ago

    Yeah i know Kiwi Dave. It's just that its an old girl and had been sitting for years so I threw a few new parts her way.

  • walka
    walka
    12 years ago
    I dont have a answer for that,, I sell Midwest and Ultima Products in Aust, Looking at all there catalouges and going though there currant price list, 98-641 dose not come up, Ultima pumps start from 1984 and up. I will send them a Email to find out
  • walka
    walka
    12 years ago
    Just did a quick search and it seams that the pump is only avalable from guys on ebay,,,
  • jimmy_ricard
    jimmy_ricard
    12 years ago

    Thanks for that Walka.

    To be honest, no instructions were read! Next chance i get i will inspect both pumps and read through instructions to check if there is a procedure for installing.

    Cheers for the feedback boys.

  • jimmy_ricard
    jimmy_ricard
    12 years ago

    Meaning it's dodgy ya think?

  • houli
    houli
    12 years ago

     

     

    www.nightrider.com/biketech/download/ssmanuals/oilpump.pdf
    File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
    by S&S Cycle, Inc. All rights reserved. Printed in the U.S.A.. Installation Instructions for AllS&S Big Twin Oil Pump Kits. IMPORTANT NOTICE: Statements in this ...

     

    cut and paste the address into Internet, this will tell you about what pumps fit what........

     

     

  • walka
    walka
    12 years ago

    Got this from Midwest this morning .Not Technically a Ultima but it’s the only oil pump I sell for 1973—91 . By the sound of the reply, they dont have much faith in them.

  • jimmy_ricard
    jimmy_ricard
    12 years ago

    Hmmmm think i've learnt my lesson on this one. Looked in the box and no instructions were supplied. I have heard that the timed engine breather is common for failing (collapsing element inside?). Would a failed breather cause this problem?

    Also this may be a dodgy sugestion but i will put it out there. Could i plumb the lower breather into the oil tank breather (To the same place the upper engine breather goes to) and make a breather on the oil tank? Or is this an issue that is best solved?

    Cheers for going out of your way on this one walka

  • houli
    houli
    12 years ago

     

    Oil Bath Primary - Sealing your Primary Oiler
    It's easy to isolate the primary, you can do it when the bike is assembled, but a cleaner job can be done by taking parts off (ya' need to pull the inner primary and oil pump to permanently plug the connections off with pipe plugs, but you can get by with just cutting the hoses and inserting a bolt into the hose to plug them off for quite some time until ya' can "do it right" at the next major teardown).

    First I'll explain the hoses coming from the primary and what you need to do to seal it off. There is a 3/8" vent line coming from the middle of the inner primary that "tee's" into the vent line going from the motor case to the oil tank. There is another 3/8" oil return that connects to the rear of the inner primary, near the inside bottom surface...it goes from the inner primary back to the motor case, where it connects to a fitting just inboard of the oil pump (near the crankcase vent fitting). And finally, there is a small 1/4" line connected to the top of the oil pump that supplies oil to the inner primary, through a small fitting in the middle of the inner.

    You need to remove the vent line from the inner and plug it off. You will no longer need that "tee" in the motor case to oil tank vent line, you can replace it with a single length of hose. You will need to remove the oil return line from the rear of the primary to the motor case and plug both ends (as stated before, you can simply cut the hose and shove a bolt in each end, securing it with a hoseclamp...this works, but I prefer to use brass plumbing plugs, 1/8" pipe thread, to close everything off. Then, disconnect the smaller oil supply hose at the oil pump. Leave the hose connected to the inner primary fitting. Run the hose down under the frame, so it can act as a vent for the inner primary. If ya' don't vent the primary to atmosphere, as the lube inside warms up the primary will pressurize and oil may seep out of the gaskets. Again, you can plug the nipple at the oil pump by simply leaving a short section of hose on it and plugging it with a screw or you can pull the little nipple out of the oil pump cover by twisting it back and forth with a pair of pliers, then tap the hole for a small machine screw and screw it shut. As I said, while the plugged hose method works, I really hate the look of short hoses plugged with something and it's not much more work to do it the right way.

    Once you have the oiling system disconnected, you need to add oil to the primary. I run straight 30 weight auto oil. Never had a problem with clutches, but make sure you are running a wet/dry clutch...a plain "dry" clutch will act up. As far as oil, it only takes about 1/2 quart or so. Just have somebody set on the bike in an upright position, pour the oil in through the derby cover until it just touches the bottom of the clutch shell and you're set. You don't need to have the chain in the oil, it only needs to be enough oil so it contacts the bottom of the clutch shell...as the clutch shell spins, it'll sling the oil around and lube the chain no problem, guaranteed.

    I have set up a few bikes this way and never had any complaints. I have been running it myself ever since I went with an electric start four years ago. It works for me.
  • houli
    houli
    12 years ago

    I`ve never had or seen a collapsed breather, i think your clutching at straws, get back to basics.........................remove new pump .compare oil pumps, did you install the key in the scavenger gear? step by step, follow the instructions i put and read the S&S info, the answer is in among all of that. 

  • jimmy_ricard
    jimmy_ricard
    12 years ago

     

  • jimmy_ricard
    jimmy_ricard
    12 years ago

    Cheers Houli. I wont be able to investigate all of this for another 2 weeks but when i do i will let you all know how i went. Kind of a bummer to remove that pump. Fucking hate that circlip!!!! haha

  • Crazy Erny
    Crazy Erny
    12 years ago

    Couldn't agree more with Daddyracer, me I used S & S as I found them to be bullet proof just like the rest of their producats.

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