g/day after prompting from slapster thought it be good to start a dyno thread

so we can all compare and see where we are at,so here we go.when i had the tune done on the 48 i asked deano to go for torque and not all out power numbers

tried to keep abit of fuel in it to keep temps down and just in case i get caught havin to run 91 octane.it will be good to see the difference when freedom outlaw pipes go on.and then the 1250 kit.

This is mine , i have since added a little more timing in the mid.... but in saying that we always run alot of timing (not just total) and different mixtures to others...hence our results.


And a mates 48 (SE slip on's and stg1 AC)

Punchy good results, just thought i'd point out, the weather settings between the red & the blue are different but the date is on the same day. this can effect the numbers. sometimes the opperator just does it to make you happy that he tuned a gain.

if you want maxium street performance & not all out HP numbers. ask the tunner to give you the tune that makes the most HP & TQ the quickest, like insted of useing RPM time the run see how many seconds it takes to make the HP & TQ and use the tune that makes the most in 4 seconds wide open throtle. you will feel the difference if they can tune a gain that comes in 4 seconds. but to realy tune an EFI it takes all day as you have to go up in throtle % to do the job right.

another thing is just looking at a dyno graph that lists HP & TQ @ RPM does not tell you how long it took to get to that RPM when you see a timed dyno run thats under load & @ wide open throtle Timed in seconds, you see the true story or close to it.

 

Good to see some bike info/specs in there fellas. Makes this thread all the more useful as a reference tool.

Slap.

krash kincade thanks for your reply. on the day it was wet in the morning and warmed up in the afternoon when the final run was performed. i will certantly talk to deano about what you where talking about. keen to find out what a/f ratios and timing people are going with and wether there tuning for 98 fuel ar taking into account getting caught having to run 91 somtimes and risking detonation. would like to know peoples preference on plugs as im running standard 6r12's. i pulled the plugs yesterday and they looked nice and white,but notticed peering down into the tops of cylinders that there is a fair amount of carbon build up for a motor with 6k's on it any opinions info appreaciated, so let rip

slaplster. cant wait to see how you go with the 1250 hammers kit .will be watching closely,be good to catch you on run to check it out. cheers mate.had a mad idea about the 88" kit but getting someone to bore the cases scares me somewhat especially in the wild west

. what cams are you looking at by the way,starting to do some research into a strong midrange cam with a nice broad spread of power,will email dan from hammers and see what he has to say.

cheers. punchy

 

Here's my pre-conversion reference dyno run. This is a simple stage 1 setup (pipe/intake/tuner) without any tuning done, just the HD stage 1 883 map download. I never bothered getting the bike properly tuned cos I was always planning for the 1250 conversion.

The big dip down low is due to my pipe (you can really feel it when riding too), the quiet insert seemed to help this somewhat but was out of the pipe for the dyno. I'll have the bike back shortly, some break-in kms then another dyno sheet to share.

Cheers, Slap.

2010 Iron 883 w/8000kms - V&H Comp Series 2-1 pipe, NRHS round intake, SE tuner with stage 1 HD map.

49.13hp / 47.37ft-lbs

 

Slaps, if you have a close look at the map they they supply you will notice why you have that dip, some really fucked up numbers in the ve tables, along with a great lack of timing......

 

I look forward to seeing how your new setup goes! 

T1

Cheers T1, I wasn't really expecting much from the HD map. Could have done some smart tuning to liven it up but couldn't be bothered cos I was always planning for the conversion.

Anyway I'm hoping to see some good numbers with the new setup, hopefully that dip can be tuned out too if it's still there, oh yeah they're ditchin the O2 sensors as well.

Slap.

Dont take the o2's out, whoever tells you to do that is a fucking idiot! If the same person is tuning it you might as well put a carby on it. Do yourself a fav and get in contact with anthony and find out when he is over there next for tuning.

Regards T1

Yeah was surprised when it was mentioned but then I read some stuff on various forums with no negative comments & then this article http://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-07.html which sort of explained it all to me, what they do etc. I know it's only 1 article on the web, but it seemed to make good sense.

Slap.

 Hey Slap,

Interesting you're thinking of removing the sensors, i'm making sure that whatever pipe I go for has the 18mm plugs for wideband sensors to better calculate the tune.  Although i'm going for the Powervision with the autotune, i'm not sure about your set up.  

I have heard that some dyno tuners use their own snesor they put up into the exhaust pipe (sort or replacing the need for sensors)  then make a thorough tune.  In this case it's possible you wouldn't need them.  But then again I might only have half the story, i'm no motorbike mechanic, or dyno tuner.....

I'll have a bit of a read of your link, i'm sure you like to research these things, you seem to know what you're on about.

Cheers

IE

 

Hello guys,
T1 asked me to come and have a look at this thread and there is some good input here and ultimately, the best results are made by
testing all available methods as each one has their own pros and cons.
The SERT has a VE table that can be altered every few hundred RPM and various throttle positions or manifold pressures, so to tune
an engine correctly it should be tuned in every point. The tune should be set to make as much torque as possible as early as possible
and for as long as possible., this is the whole aim of a tune up. There are several factors to increasing your peak numbers which include
having all of of your mid points and low points 100% first. If they are not you will be forever chasing your tail as there will always be a
percentage of residual cylinder gas that will be included in the next charge.
Since HD has been producing motorcycles the most technological advance they have made to their engine control is the addition of
oxygen sensors and knock sensors. The "only" people that would insist on removing them are the ones that dont understand them and
therefore should go and learn rather than remove them. Yes there are hundreds of effects on the way they read relating to overlap
exhaust temperature and fuel composition, and they should also learn about them rather than remove them. In our race car we use
100% alcohol, 60 psi boost with premix and lubricants added to the fuel and the O2 sensors are still the most valuable tuning tools we use.
The factory canned maps are pathetic and if you view them in 3D you will see exactly the flaws you are explaining in the way your bike
performs. These holes in the tune up have been created by techs building tunes that do not understand the input of accelerator corrections
on the main tables when reading mixtures of dyno sheets. Sert does not use the closed loop function under all conditions but will use the
oxy sensors constantly for its reactive fuel changes (short term inputs), that most people dont understand. They also have numerous
background corrections that are implemented by the ECU but not accesible by SERT or other tuning platforms.
Overall I favour the SERT, but that has been after heaps of research into the background variables, I will not fit any unit that ignores the
knock retard, and as most of the tuning for torque is done using timing, I believe the self tune (fuel only) is a limited approach.
I hope that helps a little....
Cheers- Ant

Cheers T1 / Ant, I'm heading up to the shop now to drop something off so will have a chat.

Slap.

 

Ran on the dyno yesterday, just shy of 10% gain, runs way better.

Yeah IE I'm goin with the workshop on this one, they've got a pretty solid rep around this neck of the woods. I didn't get to speak with who I wanted to the other day but had a chat to the bloke doin my conversion.
As far as I know the bungs are removable so I guess if I change my mind later I can always swap back to using the O2 sensors.

Slap.

Thats good HP & TQ from stock XR1200, i like those bikes, but i was lucky enough to be at SID about two years back, & got to see a ligh weight racer with a lot of experience riding one of HD's own XR1200's with a factory trained tech that has drag race experience advising him on shift points. the XR is a high bike so not easy to race at the track. But there was a guy there with a stock new 1200 iron sportster, had V&H sort shots ( i think thats what they are called ) SE air cleaner otherwise stock.

the XR1200 was runing 12.4 consistent with a pro road racer on it. but trap speeds were consisten 108mph. the trap speed tell's you in no BS terms how much HP you have .

the young guy on the sportster was his first time ever at the track, i went over to talk and thats how i saw his time ticket and saw the speeds 60ft time and so on. young guy did 13.2 & was not happy, but i saw his trap speed was 108mph & told him he can go as quick as that XR1200, he would not beleave me. told him he just has to ride bike different no mods no tuning just learn to ride it & he will match that XR1200, so told him a few things to try with his riding. & same night no mods no tuning he went from 13.2 not making one mistake down to 12.6 still 108mph the XR1200 stayed at 12.4 108mph. the young guy got hooked and went back every week. i think it was only one week latter he ran 12.3 still 108mph. two years down the line he has ran 11.9 same speed. same tune

but if you think 108MPH = 100HP your kidding! i have a twin cam 95" Dyna carb that is heavier than an XR1200 or a EFI sportster & it has done 121.5MPH with this ol heavy guy on it & guess what? the dyno that don't BS  set up to tell the truth. only gave me 110HP.

trouble with Dyno's is they can be made to lie like just program in the drum is heavier than it is or play with weather settings, some opperators are good tunners but get carried away trying to impress you.

the black top dyno never lies. 80HP is extreamly good rear wheel from a sportster 90HP is realy good 100HP you would have to run 10's @ 125 mph  so go down track & find out.

ps these times & speeds i'm quoting are for a stock wheelbase stock frame stock shift , no cut outs or wheelie bars just street bikes.

 

 

 Good on you Stinky Finger for having a go.!

i suppose a good tuner spending a day or two or three, could improve the stock off showroom floor HP & TQ. But no two dyno's ever read the same, as even a different dyno room or where dyno is, or even type & model. But don't get me wrong i like dyno's as a tuning tool.  But I'll tell you the best way to test & that 's time how long they take to make HP & TQ. As if you just look at rpm you are not always sure what gear they did the run in or how long they took to get to that RPM. So if you go to a track to test & your bike was tuned & showed 100HP @ say 7,000 & say 75 ft TQ but what you did not know is with that particular tune i it too 6 seconds to reach 7,000 rpm. & you go to a drag strip to test see what you can do. But I think you will agree ,if you put bike in 1st then go out the hole & hold it for 6 seconds wot by the time you reach 4th gear that will be one slow pass. So what I do is ask my tuner  to go for the tune that makes the most HP & TQ the quickest that does not always mean the most HP & it shows results.

But just what I found from trying, also if I wanted to impress you all I'd just use Nitro but illegal to use it in any class or anything but group one & only allowed to use it on track not return road or in pits.thats the rule here in oz at least. Just pointing out its possible to use and tune with special fuel or oxibgenating race gas .

but like you said you enjoy your bike on the street, I do too 

cheers

i rode a 1200 sporty back in 1996  claimed 88 to 91 hp on the dyno , ported & polished 1100 stock heads s/eagle cams stock original flattop cast  pistons   , 3rd pass @ the drags strip  never rode that bike before  @  all , = 11.4 sec e.t. @ 117mph  on a stock modified cv carb  ?

Your a ledgend! daddtracer56, you are a true Bike racer tht understands just how hard it is to ride a street bike to it's full potential & you don't need anything added on. no wheelie bar no ignition or fuel cut out, no strapped down forks or struts & you just use your foot to shift.

SF i did not just mean timming a dyno run to see how quick they spool up WOT under load was only used for the track. i ment if a dyno opperator wants to show you the truth thats how they will print it out. but they won't show you that as no one likes the truth these days, the world love's BS. All i like to know is what i've got. but on the  street in Australia now you can't ride WOT i go off lights with throtle open for 1 second shift then one second open in second & eather second or third in 2 or three seconds i'm on the speed limit. so i got to go to the track to find out how it performs just like riding off the lights but with no speed limits or cars to worry about.

5LtFreak i know lowering diff ratio in a car can make a gain at drags, as most Cars that go to the track are Auto trans. with a street Harley won't make much difference & it will not effect your trap speed, trap speed will only go faster or slower if you have the power. but miss one gear shift and that will effect your trap speed & time. i'm saying if you  do a run no missed shifts & wide open through the speed traps you can work out how much power your motor puts out. on a street HD they sometimes go slower if you lower the gearing as when they make more power & torque they get more pressure on the gears when you go WOT & become harder to shift quick at higher revs, lowering the gears just add's to that plus the gear shift points come up quicker you have to react very quick & shift very quick. with a bike the rider makes a big difference. with a car not so much or a difference.

if you want to get a quick time with your bike ask daddyracer56 to ride it!

 

You are very right there 5ltr, for me the difference isnt in the numbers, i always take them with a grain of salt. With concerns to my own bike, i have always compared it to other 883's and some 1200's on the road (mate) and when my bike pulls away from them down low and upto thats all i need to confirm the tune is better. The difference is in how well it it rides, being able to pull out of a corner without shifting down as often shows me that it is make more power.....'

T1