Hi all I am in need of some advice I had the local shop put in a SE255 cam today I picked i up and it was about 30% power and almost dying on WOT? compared to my stock cam. I am thinking no big deal its juuts the old map get home drop the new map in and things will be different?

So I drop in the CAA 176 03 I think, it is (map for the SE255 cam) go out for a ride and dont event bother going out on the open highway, the thing is a pig, see,s almost like its flooding it or choking?

Now my question: is it the cam? is it the install? or will a tune take my ride from a 30-40 power to 110 power over my stock cam?

No syptoms of a misaglined tooth (misfired hard start etc)

Anyone ideas?

What happen?

 

 

My first thought would be that the cams are out of timing, That is an install problem, take it back. a couple of degrees is all it takes...

Another point is that when I had my cam put in the bike was a pig for a week till I got it Vtuned by scotty. So a tune may take it out. Depending on what map is in there atm, but you have said that you put in a map for the 255s so maybe it is the install, either way ring the shop back up and talk to the Mech and see whats up

Some of the early 255 cams where 10 degrees out with the cam timing. The bike could be sumping causing lack of power from the oil pump o-ring being not aligned properly.

http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php/topic,48146.msg504667.html#msg504667

A compression test would show if the cams are misaligned. My guess would be its a sumping problem with the oil pump o-ring. Take it back to the shop who fitted them and have them double check there work.

Here is my CAM tune? anything to be picked up fro this,

Could anyone tell if it was "sumping" from the CAM tune file, I can upload it?

 

thanks 

The way to check is warm the bike up and drop the crank case plug and measure how much oil comes out. The sump plug has lock tight so it needs to be heated or you could stripe the thread taking it out. Its shaped like a wedge with thread so if its over tightened when installing it it will stripe the thread or crack the case. If you can swing a spanner go for it or have a second shop check out your problem. May I ask if it was a HD dealer or a indy shop who did the work

It was the local HD shop, I have decide I am just going to take it back and tell him to go for a ride if he comes back and says its fine that will be another matter but with it being so under powered I couldn't see him saying that and looking me in the eye.

I should have just done it myself but I couldnt be bother wrenching is not really my thing, I do it but its not a passion.

I am sure it will get sorted just a bit bummed waited over amonth for the servie appointment and and now this.

Will post up after the results. I would go ahead and drop the oil but that will just add factors/reasons for him to walk away from it, only thing I am happy to do was drop in the new map I have done that so I wont take it back now until its run strong then I will be happy to tune it for a another 3-5% extra
 

 

Another question he replaced the breathers? (I think thats what they are called), I didnt know that had to be done on a cam change anyone more knowedgeable able to chime in on that? (well I assumed he replaced them as the old ones are in the parts given back?)

Good idea mate its there problem not yours. If they fuck you around go to HD Australia with a complaint but they should look after you.
Good luck and keep us posted.

He may have changed over the Breather filters in the rocker covers... Nothing wrong with that as I changed mine over when I done my cams.

Shadow - I just did my cams and I can tell you that if there was nothing wrong, the change in power UP will be noticeable.

When I was doing my cams there was plenty of noise online about making sure the O-Rings were replaced and seated properly or, as mentioned by some above, you will lose power BIGTIME!!

It makes me wonder if the replaced them, or though not to because the bike hadn't done many Kms. I replaced all 3 rings when I did mine.

Take it back to them for sure and ask them what is going on. I dropped on the 255 map for mine, and the thing goes like a skanky bitch - So something is definitely wrong with your install man.

Good luck and report back when you find out.

Affirmative!! The same map bro!!

I just got off from a 60km ride, and it just makes me smile now!!

Hitting 100 in 3rd is now too easy - a bit scary when you are not looking at the speedo and don't know you are going so fast. LOL!!!

 

update: bike sat at the shop all day and I went back and was told that there is nothing wrong with it pulls in all gears?????? I am like W T F are you telling me (as someone thats not riden my ride and doesnt ride a harley in life that you know my bike that I ride every day of the week better than me??????? I am about to fucking lose it. I start second guessing myself and my mind is racing 100mph ... 

Questions like are the SE255 cams that bad, can I tune it and improve the performance on the map by 30-40%, have i completely lost the feel of my ride in 4 days? J H Christ,,,,,,

Long story short I start spilling my guts saying I don't want to piss people off I just want a performance upgrade that i thought i brought etc etc etc et fuckin cetra and he finally says he will strip it down and take another look at it.

Someone please tell me I haven't gone through the looking glass am I that far off on my assumptions about the CAM it should equal or better the stock one right?

Didnt sleep well last night now it looks like I have along weekend with poor sleep and a long wait next week.

 

As a side note they were talking up SERT and saying thats what I should have used etc and as far as harley is concnred then if it doesnt have sert in in its the tune and not the cam install,  I sure as fuck hope he finds something next week.

as another side note can someone confirm that my side shots with QQBCT baffles and a proformance machine air cleaner are not the issue? (see how much I am grasping at straws).

 

BTW the dealer has said he will work on it and get it sorted (just took some talkign to get that to happen) until he proves it wrong I am going to give him the benifit of the doubt, he is standing by the work at the point so i am not here to run them down just telling my story and venting a bit (dont do so well when my bikes not running right)

 

The 255 are torque cams designed for heavy weight touring bikes that work from 1800 RPM to 4500 RPM. The torque difference from stock to the 255 would be substantial and should be felt after the first ride.
I would give HD Australia a ring and explain what happened after the dealer cam install and ask them for warranty work at another dealer.

Shadow,

I see a couple of problems here, and the main one I see is this...

IF he thinks the bike is OK, why would he then offer to "strip it down and take a look"???

I know there is a bit of time to do that, and sure he would not do that just for the hell of it.

My guess is they got it wrong, and now that you have brought it to their attention, they are going to make it look like they didn't do anything wrong.

I have heard this story before. Something like.... "yeah, we stripped it down and couldn't find anything wrong" but low and behold the bike is riding as it should.

Stay at em. Like Hogbag said, you WILL notice the difference in pull, and if you have a slump in power, I would bet my house on a O-ring!

Any news on your bike shadow

I got it back yesterday and they havent done anything to it other than tests. tested compression etc one was about 185 the other was a bit over 180 (which for the cam and the adjustment for sea level is ok). I also moved my QQBCT baffles lower in the pipe (they were mounted as directed at 6 inches in, but on my side shots that was almost as far as you could go on the short pipe), this seems to have helped, I will try to tune it this week and report back.
I am starting to think that due to the SE255 cam having a flat spot in the low rev range and me being used to shifting the stock cam lower to stay in the power that I was constantly "in" the flat spot in all the gears.
I took it for a decent run last night night and run it out to the limiter in the lower gears and it does seem to be still pulling pretty well. it seems better than it was maybe I panicked and wasnt used to the new cam profile (had nothign to compare it to before).

with the change in the baffle positon and hopefully tuning it correctly this week we will see, I do thing it has loosened up some what from when I first tried it from the shop (I have no idea what that could have been, but he never test rode it after the cam change and the service so maybe something was off a bit).
Ran it up to 150-160 in thrid so I am assuming its all ok and I just need to get to work and tune out the flat spot in the cam (like i siad i must have pretty much been riding in the flat spot in each gear when i test rode it and thats why i thought it was so under powered).

Hopefully over the next few days I can do a few vtune runs and get it sorted, the gear changing is now is very different from the stock change point and I think the new cam likes to stay in the lower gear for a lot longer, I was used to having to shift due to hitting the wall on the old cam.

thanks for all the advice etc I am slowly learning as I go so in the long run it was maybe worth the hassle. thanks all.

Hmm... What would be good mate is to get someone else to ride it and compare - OR - get them to let you ride theirs so you can compare.

All I know is, when I first jumped on mine with the cam change and that stock canned map, I could instantly tell it was pulling harder. I could feel the added acceleration.

Mine are not the 255s so I guess we can't compare exactly.

Where abouts are you?? Maybe there is someone close that can assist.

Good luck bro and keep us posted.

Maybe that cam isn't the cam for you?

what I mean, You are riding you bike in a range that your cam isn't meant ie its over before it began and you are really wanting a cam that comes on in the mid range and holds on longer

That cam has a reputation of not givingmuch out when the rev's get past 3000, and you are wanting something from there on and the 255 isn't giving it

well heading out to do a tuning run now, and the more i ride it the better it seems (seems like it was me that needed the education, now I am learning where in the curve it likes to sit its running a lot better, I can leave it in the gears longer and dont even need to ge up to top around town.

 

I will post back after some tunign runs tonight.