Hi all I have gone back and forward on this a number of times, seeing as its seems pretty random so I thought I would email Doc about it (the one in florida whos has been around TTS for a long time and helps Steve Cole out),

 

Now my questions was in my tunes of 681 I loss top end and the tunes I did at the locally (read austrailia) recomended value of 720 where stronger and I was thinking I would try a tune at 759 (in the line of thought that if 720 is better than 681 for top end power then 759 would be better than 720 - my logic anyway), but I had a number of experts tell me otherwise and also had read a number of posts about shortening the life of the FI, also the TTS manual dosen't recomend that higher value (not sure why as Doc wrote the first manual I believe, my guess is they are going for a setting thats economical for most, me I can afford a touch more gas if my engine has more power).

Well I read about 300 pages of forums here there and everywhere and read alot fo different info posted by a lot of people so I ended up emailing Doc directly with a question along these lines ( I would be moving to MT8 map and doing my cam etc etc).

Here is the reply I got from Doc on 29/8/2012 .

"Chris

I run anywhere from 740 to 760 clb on all tunes. This doesn't hurt anything nor does it shorten the life of anything....the bike will simply run cooler.

 

Good Luck

 

Doc"

 

Now I am a internet machanic so I am not posting this to get into a pissing contest about how and why and whatever, I am only posting to share this infomation as it has been a thorn in my side for a good long while with all the different infomation out there.

I am going to take this as gospel as Doc has been with TTS from the start and he also runs courses on tuning with it and is part of the testing etc for the new CANBUS system (TTS II).

 

My bike info in the email was FXDWG 2010, although as I read this I dont think that matter as Doc said "all tunes".

If anyone has done any runs at 759 and say around 720 or 681 please fell free to offer constructive insight, I am sure there are a lot more knowedgable people on this forum than me (personally I will still be giving 759 a try this weekend).

Also note if Doc's in florida I would assume the weather would be a good match for most of this country.

Please try and keep the posts constructive as the reason I posted this to assit with people setting their CLB as it seems there is a fair amout of variation out there (hence my original delema).

 

Thanks all.

 

 

 

Shadow CLB stands for Closed Loop Bias and only affects areas in Closed loop.

Unless you have your whole AFR set at 14.6 (you normally don,t have your high RPM areas closed loop) your CLB settings ain't going to jack for top end performance

Like Doc said you might get a cooler running bike in the closed loop/ cruise area's but thats about it

I know what it stands for I am talking about the original setting when doing Vtune runs, there is  not a clear setting anywhere around that I could find so I ask Doc, 

 

I am only going on my persoanl results, I know that my 720 CLB setting tune has more top end than the 681 tune, a noticable difference, this could well be just due to the overal fuel mix being at a richer content than the lower CLB.

Stands to reason in my view as a lean or lower CLB gives better fuel milage and a cost of power (at least thats how I understand it).

And I somewhat understand the WOT thing your talking about, but I was not necassarly meaning WOT just the top end in general. Anyway I am going to try and do it this weekend so I can post then,

Hey Shadow,

Ando is correct as the CLB is a voltage point the ECU will look forward to reference its closed loop operation. It is not reccommended to run the engine in Closed Loop while under heavy load so it theoretically should have no effect on top end heavy load. The higher number will prompt a higher voltage while in closed loop which will make it run richer and that is why Doc told you it will run cooler.

If your bike is a 2010 I believe it will only have a narrow band O2 sensor in it which also will not have the capacity to run under heavy load correctly. Not sure if that is what you were asking, but that is the way I have been taught to look at CLB voltage input.

Regards- Ant

thanks for the info, so are you both saying there is nothing to be gained from trying a 759 CLB over say a 681 or a 720? when Vtuning.

yes as when Vtuning you set all areas in closed loop so ya might run a bit cooler with the extra fuel.

But when you finish Vtuning you you don't have the areas you talk about in closed loop so you don't get any top end benifits it just effects your cruise area

OK thanks i dont mind learning things as I go, cheers. 

I run my tune in open loop across the whole map

CLB doesn't come into play ( my understanding ) for me my tune doesn't change and I believe it runs cooler aswell

The offset is not across the board. Meaning you dont have to apply the offset to say 100kpa. BUT, from what I have seen is, the richer CLB will affect the higher kpa's while blending.

Closed Loop Biasing is exactly that it is a voltage number that influences Closed Loop activation and the voltage it will be looking for while in Closed loop, sorry guys it has absolutely no influence on fuel in the top end. Checked wit  a few other US tuners and confirmed this with them.

Cheers- Ant

G'day
Don't forget that CLB is for closed loop only - In other words.. If you are noticing a change in the 'top end' with a normal (read closed loop only when cruising or light on) tune, it's not the CLB changes.
At the 'top end' you'll probably find the map is out of closed loop and therefore it's your VEs and AFR that will be making a difference.
Pauly

Hi All,

Just read this thread with interest. SO... I have started my Vtune runs and from memory my CLB is down around 642 or the like. Should I be looking at this for the next vtune runs?

Mongrel I think 642 is a bit low. May I suggest around the 720 mark is a better setting as it will allow for a bit richer and cooler running motor. That is if you intend to run in closed loop.

 Ando - Pretty sure you're right! 

Pauly

 

Mongrel when you look at the first page in the Mastertune map it should show AFR... Have a look and anywhere in RED is closed loop 14.6. If it is another color then it is in open loop. Most of the maps that you will load are closed loop.

When operating in closed loop the ecu gets signals from the O2 Sensors letting it know the oxygen level in the exhaust gases, that way the ECU can alter the AFR accordingly. To maintain that 14.6 AFR. The default setting for the CLB in a factory stock motor is shit can't remember but I think 485?? (Not sure but close) that gives a AFR of 14.68. Pretty lean and the motor runs hot ( EPA Restrictions) The CLB setting gives the tuner the ability to adjust the AFR setting. You are not technically adjusting the AFR you are fooling the ECU into thinking the engine is running to lean so the ECU sends more fuel in.... By setting the CLB to say 720 you are telling the ECU that the electrical signal it is receiving the from the O2 Sensors is the default setting for a 14.68 AFR.

Ok guys if I am wrong FFS shoot me down or correct me but that is my understanding of the CLB settings in MT

I don't want to shoot anyone down but let's try and get this right. To run closed loop on a AFR based bike you must set the AFR table to 14.6 no other number works. So now that you have that set the ECM has no way to know what that number is. So the CLB is the value that the ECM tries to hold as an average voltage. It will add/subtract fuel to get the O2 sensors to average that voltage. So when you adjust the CLB voltage what you are doing is SETTING the value that the ECM adjust too, in closed loop. Your not doing an offset or lying to the ECM in any way, you are SETTING the target voltage for the circuit to work to. Now what does that voltage mean is what is in question and that depends on the fuel your are running. If it is real gasoline without alcohol added a setting of 450mv will get you ~ 14.68 AFR, as you raise the voltage the AFR goes richer and as you lower the voltage it goes leaner. If the fuel is not pure gasoline as most fuels today are not the actual value of AFR will be different.

Cheers Steve. Awesome product BTW.