Gidday folks , continuing on my research journey into what will be my next Bike i was hoping i could get some info wether  No: 1 .... can a 180 rear tyre fit in a standard 96 to 99 Evo Softail swing arm ..... i have been told they will if you go to a smaller belt or even better go to a chain as final drive and if not a 180 then maybe a 170 as i find the standard 130 a tad small .... personal taste only .

I know there will be people saying just buy a 2006 Twin Cam or newer with a 200 wheel on allready and that is still a possibility but as with most things in life there is a cost associated with going for the newer product and the fact is i can get a late model Evo a hell of a lot cheaper than a Twin Cam which of course lets me spend my hard earned budget on other goodies that i have been drooling over .

The 2 nd thing was of course with a bigger rear tyre ..... { if it can be done } ..... was the issue of a rear gard to fit as i would think the standard 96 to 99 rear gard wouldnt do the job ..... would love to be corrected here ..... the thought was to buy a newer 200 rear wheel model gard and adapt that ..... any idears , your imput would be welcomed ..... Tim .

 

pics are no longer there unfortunately....but you will get th drift...maybe pm him....

http://www.hdforums.com.au/Default.aspx?tabid=71&forumid=24&postid=63035&view=topic

 

Thanks Jimbo for the link ..... my quest for the bigger back whell continues ..... Tim .

th smaller rear wheel width might be coming back in vogue anyways, check out th new 2012 Softail Slim....getting good feedback...a more classic look i believe....

 

 

fuc me jimbo arnt you a post whore  

Hello TJU,
I speak from experience here, but it is not intended to distract you from your line of thought on the modification that you seek, just another opinion.
The 200 tire on the Softails does not do them justice in the handling department, it may look good but does not allow the bike to be ridden at its optimum, I suspect that this is one of the reasons HD went narrower tire sizes on the latter models, I have even considered this modification myself, albeit an expensive one.
A rear tire somewhere between 160-180 would be ideal for better handling characteristics, whilst the Softail is a comfortable sled on distance runs ( not uncommon for me to rack up 900 - 1100 k days when to fro across the "treeless plain"), about town (Perth) my mates FXD is a bit sharper when leaning and gets better mileage out off his 180 rear.
Just my two bobs worth, cheers Paul.

Paul , i reckon you may have a point with the bigger rear tyre , handling wise opinion ..... that was one of the reasons for trying to find out if a 180 tyre would fit into an older EVO and i have found out some interesting things so far , but still havent made a discission as yet

The main problem at the moment is that i can get a 2008 TC for 18,500 Wide Glide , very clean bike indeed or even a 2008 Softail for about 19,500 as oppossed to a decent Evo anywhere between 16,000 and 18,000 ..... a bike with less km`s on it and 10 years newer for only a 1000 or 2 at worst more ..... but of course there in lies the old problem of which is better EVO or TC as i am not a big fan of all the electrical doo dadds that come with modern vehicals , i of course realise that there is not much of anything in this moderm world that dosent have some type of electrical gizmo connected to it ..... so i will continue to soak up all the advice i can get from anyone that is interested to reply as i am very much grateful for it .

Jimbo , i also like the 2012 / 2013 Softail Slim but carnt help but feel that it would have been perfect to have the bigger wheel on the back and not on the front , plus the rear guard looks like it is unfinished or something ..... would be intersted to find out if a Softail guard fits that model because everything else really suits that model and i think the Cats eye dash sets it off as well ..... saw one up here at Gasoline Ally a few weeks back ..... spoked wheels , got to love them

TJU old mate,
I suppose you are aware of some of the differences with the engine configurations between EVO and TC, besides the obvious differences in capacities? One of the main reasons that HD upgraded the design from EVO which has a single cam configuration servicing both cylinders, to the more efficient power plant of the TC which has two camshafts one for each cylinder. This conception changed the valve train geometry producing less stresses on the camshaft, valve train components and without the heavier loads, this also increased power. This is just one of the refinements that is an improvement over the EVO.
As for the electronic/electrical s and I am guessing that you are referring to the EFI management of the engine, this alone probably saved HD and is arguably HD's best improvement todate! I am also going to take a guess and assume that you do not have an indepth knowledge of EFI and of course then the benefits of EFI would be difficult to comprehend, but make no mistake EFI on the HD sleds is a very sound performing piece of kit and I believe have been on the American Baggers since 2001, I stand to be corrected here!
If you can source a Tuning Technician, someone who operates a dyno, ask them for their preference and why.
If your intention is to hang on to the bike of your choice and use it frequently, then you would be much better served with the TC and preferably anything after 2007, the TC 96 ers are good V-twin motors with plenty of get up and go, their resale value isn't to shabby either.
Don't be to hard and fast on TC's with bigger mileage, a good well kept, well maintained sled will be a better investment then a EVO with less mileage and unknown service history.My preference will always be for the better proven technology and the latest TC,s have this in bucket loads, mind you all our tastes are different and this is one of the great social gels within the HD fraternity.
The last test for you is to take all the prospective sleds for a ride and let your "feel" dictate your decision, no good having the best "value for money sled" and you are not comfortable on it slipping around town or rumbling up the freeway.
I went through all of the above prior to my decision and my cheaque was well written.
I hope this can help you, cheers, Paul

Thanks Paul , appreciate the reply ..... will definitly be taking a few different models for test rides because as you say that is proberbly one of the main things to consider ..... no point in riding something that just dosent feel right ..... quick back story , my last HD was a 1976 SuperGlide 1200 with its own fair share of electrical issues , the pic under my name , believe me i understand that all era`s of bikes have there dramas , and any newer model is going to be an improvement on that old girl ..... dont get me wrong , i had my fair share of fun on her thats for sure .

I am faily sure i will be heading towards a 2007 or latter TC but just have to put a few demons to bed so to speak , things like the notoriously bad cam chain adjusters on the early model TC`s as well as poor oil pumps and the discontinued use of Timken bearings which are now owned by Torrington if i am correct , these are all things corrected now by HD and hopefully will not be to much of a issue in the years to come..... the whole electrical thing i surpose centers around the facts that a TC motor has something like 7 or more sensors through out the motor to feed information back to the fuel injection system which is miles ahead compared to old carbies models when it comes to performance and economy except for one major area ..... As long as they dont fail ..... you only need one of those sensors to give up the ghost and your not going any where , while if that was a old carbie model it may cough and splutter but you would be able to get home or at least to some where safer than a country road .

I realise i sound like a old doom and gloom type of guy but a nother fact to take into consideration is i am no young chappy , i`m in my 50`s and Technolagy has a way of scaring the bejeezus out of some of us old farts , Lol ..... and while it may not come across in my post , i am really enjoying the whole journey , the advice and opinions of others helps me form a educated idear that ultimitly i have to make for my self ..... thanks again Paul .... Happy Riding ..... Tim .

TJU old mate,

You will be OK with 07 and later, you are on the right track here, dont get to hung up on early TC's (assuming your reference is TC 88) with regard to camshaft bearings and the like. Once again I emphasis the due diligence when running service history checks or at least group/friends knowledge of the bike. There are plenty of early TC's with over 100+ kilometers onboard and still going, as a matter of fact one of the guys I ride with has over 102 k on his 06 Fatboy and just recently returned from another foray across to Vic, it is only now that he is talking of a "hop up" ar at least a cam upgrade, when he is ready he will let me know what he wants me to do.

As far as the "sensor issue" goes, if there is a problem within the EFI not only will you feel it (obviously) but you can start identification of the problem from accessing the Trouble Codes which can be thrown up through the digital readout window on the speedo. Knowledge is king! there is a bit to it but the instructions are in the owners manual. Also one of the benefits of the sensors associated with the EFI is that there is a certain percentage of "learned values" which the ECM utilizes the input from the sensors to correct out of parameter data and hence control fuel injector output. I t is just a matter of reading and doing a bit of more reading, it comes together.

And as for being over 50 old mate I think you will find a damned lot of us are! It does not mean that we cannot learn this new technology, it just takes a bit longer.

Cheers Paul.

Gidday Paul ..... that is fantastic reassuring news about the error / trouble codes being thrown up through the digital readout on the speedo ..... obviously i would have learnt about these things AFTER buying which ever model i get but you would be amazed ... { or maybe not } ... at the amount of bike shops over here that i have relayed the same fears i have relayed to you and not one of them came close to letting me know about the readout solution .

One can only asume the reason for this is that they dont want owners to have to much knowledge as we may be able to save ourselfs a little money here and there but then that would be cynical of me to think that hey , Lol .

I reckon by the time the house project sells ... which is where the money is coming from , hopefully no longer than 2 to 3 months ... i will be able to let you know which way i ended up going if you are still on this forum .... so thanks again mate , your advice has been invaluable and very welcomed .

Cheers Tim .

TJU,

Just a followup note for you regarding your original post re fitment of rear tire/swingarm. I am not sure about the specifics of Evo swing arms but there is not too much that can not be modified at the back end of a Harley, going from 130 to 160 is possible so reliable sources inform me, however unsure about the 180 question. A well phrased email off to a well known HD custom shop (possibly American) will reveal the answers that you seek. IMHO I find from my own research that the 170-160 tire size is my preferred size, difficult to obtain in 17 inch unless happy with spoked set up.

When you do decide on the species of bike, the best advise I can pass on to you is to purchase a full workshop service manual (cd on ebay or amazon ect) and then you will find a lot of the answers you require re Trouble Codes. Also if you obtain a spare parts catalogue you will be able to cross reference parts numbers of different models and you will be surprised as to how many are compatible. Always advisable to quote part numbers when doing overseas orders, most aftermarket manufacturers can quote against known HD part numbers.

So, sell that house and the missus if she comes with the house, find that bike and enjoy!

Cheers Paul.

ive done a hfew 180 an 200 in softys an evo mainly they do fit an they do handle ....with a slightly wider tire on the front ya will need to cut the fender struts for a 180 but if ya want to go to a 150 160 ish you dont ..yea yea alot will say no need to cut but if ya carry a pillion and you dont want to have only a few mil guard to tire ya gotta change em atm im doin a 200 on a sporty with 955 trumpy front end rear mono shock with a turbo ..but i made a full blown custom swingarm .with ya softy use your swing arm but you can jig it to make it better looks wise an for fitment no need to space the box ect go the chain option if ya want a chat free to call i work at home an build one off customs but do eng box rebuilds an frame mods
cheers ron
OLDSKOOL CUSTOM BIKES
0450511192

paul are you aware that the twinkies had LESS hp than the evos stock standard also evos had fuel injection as well in earlier yrs .have you mentioned to tim about cranks shifting an the fact twinkies wear out cams quicker than evos cause there are more movin parts and did you mention to him that once you change parts on injected twinkies its very advisable to get a tuner for the bike also that they have a cast oil pump an wear out if not oil changed an if the pinion shaft hasnt moved outta true .oops evos do have probs tim but if you bought an evo most prob you would have a bike that has had a engine hot up or atleast has had pistons heads cam an ignition and carb done .most ppl an i build motors tune ect that have twinkies will an do spend upto 5k makin it better faster or more reliable .sorry paul no disrespect but i seen there was a few things missed
as i staed in my reply tim you can make evos or twinkies with wideish rears handle but 18-0 is a good size in the pic section there is a black n gold soft tail evo i built it has a 200 on the rear take a look an youll see not much mods unless you take the rear guard off watever you get its up to you man but look far and wide hey theres bargains all over atm
cheers ron

Hi Guys,

All good to hear, I respectfully ask anybody who has firm views either way on Evo's or TC's to read "Donny's Unauthorised Technical Guide to Harley-Davidson, 1936 to Present Volume I: The Twin Cam" . The most comprehensive analysis of TC 88 to Evo and TC 88 to TC 96 with further comprehensive technical comparisons on TC 103, TC 110, authored by a Harley Davidson enthusiast, Technical writer, Bike Magazine columnist and workshop owner operator. This read will influence you if you have a smatter of technical CDF.

Best Technical reference book on Harley Davidson I have read, still reading some 700 pages (all this for only 3 models!) with all the facts, technical specs and often subject matter photos for easy identification, of special note is subject matter with HD stock numbers. Being an independent reviewer/author he holds no punches on the good bad and ugly!

Wished I had purchased this before I commenced my upgrade.

Cheers Paul

hey paul yea donny knows his stuff . bein a biker an then bikie an always workin on harley nearly 40plus yrs have owned over 27 of em from flatheads to pans evos shovels turbod nitros ect ect an still work on em just finished a motor build for deadwood an have bulldoggys evo to do as well i build anything from stock to wild 140hp motors evo or twinkies ..from experience from building over 100 plus 88 an 96 twin cams even the 2007 can an will shift cranks they are still made the same way as the first 88 they have way better chain tensioners in the oil type an not stoopid spring loaded they have bigger an better cam bearing an a slightly better oil pump but still a cast alloy
ive had to rebuilkd 2009 streetbobs after findin out the crank was rooted an oil pumps shat itself too .
now i love evos an i love twinkies an awwww shit i love any fuckin bike lol but harley did build an shit hot design with the twin cam butttt they only half built it
the harley tech bloke in the states said to me in 2000 that the motors are disposable ones just like everything else these days an i said if i paid 30k for a bike an it had probs before 50k id smash the bloke an he hung up lol
if they hadve made the motor a tad wider an builkt the crank like evos with 5 peice an replaceable with bolt together that wouldve been a bigggggggg advantage to the guys n gals that own em also if they had a billet oil pump like fuelling ect that wouldve helped as well seein as the cast ones do damage easily if geardrives were used another great advantage but hey if bikes not have a prob there would be no spares sales only bling n shit hey
choco from here called me an i built him a motor HE WANTED an not one i thought was best also ALLMOST TOO OLDS motor ive played with an ISSUES motor and his wifes BIKE I HAD TO REBUILD the whole yes bike had cracks in frame motor real bad and this is a 2003 fxd with a one lady owner since new . when i finished she was so happy she had a tear she was gunna get rid of it but thought if she got me to fix she would have known every nut n bolt an as she said it came to her 100 times better than it was new lol .even though she was ISSUES missus i dealt with her as its her bike not his .id love to have owned a twinkie but lost license due to health few yrs back but it dont stop me from building a good strong reliable motor thatll be good for many 100 of thousand of kilometers .im lucky to have a few at my desposale so i can test an do things by test n trial to see wat works best ..hope you dont think i was baggin you as i wasnt just was lettin you know a few truths ya may not have known hey im even young enough to know an im peggin the big 60s soon lol watever Tim buys he will be happy with but even if by some unfortunate mishap he gets a lemon(we cant see inside the motors when we look at them )he will be happy in knowin there are few in here to help if he needs it its alot of coin hey .ive only bought 1 new bike an mark got the shits when i painted it matt black outside the shop in the early 90s lol ive been lucky to have worked in places like NATLIS an mc cleod chassis ect so id by a basket case n build my own up for alot cheaper than new

Tim if you need anuy help im only a call away or if you need to call just for a chat about ya bike or for more of my knowledge on wat to look for feel free man the more honest advice an knowledge you aquire can only help in ya adenture to find the bike of ya dreams
both of ya have a top weekend i will im workin on bikes AND THE FUCKING RAINS STOPPED LOL
cheers ron

Hey Tim,

I've been watching your post with interest & thought i'd give you my opinion, quite a few Vodkas later opinion I might add.. 

What sort of riding are you planning on doing?? No offence intended but are you planning on dragging this thing? If you're not either a Evo or Twin Cam will serve you well. They're both going to comfortably do well over 100,000km's if you're not planning on flogging the shit out of them! That's with regular maintenance of course..

I always think it's better to lock in what style of bike your after & then go from there. If you really want your bike to have a 200 rear then buy one that has a 200 rear! If you don't you won't be happy!

Harley is obviously trying to improve it's product ever year, that lends me to believe that Harley's flagship engine which is now the twin cam must be superior to the evo, otherwise they'd be running with evo's...?

Another thought is to throw a post up about how reliable guys twin cams have been.. IE; year model of ride, what model, what engine mod's if any, how many trouble free km's, what style of riding do you do...?

My bike is a 2011 FXST, I've done just over 10,500km's since 1st July 2011 & it's never run better!! I'm now looking to increase the fun with a a set of 583 S&S easy start cam's.... 

Have fun finding ya bike mate!!

Hi Spero , thanks for the response ..... the more that come in the more knowledge i can squeeze into my allready over crowed brain , Lol .

Short back story .... been riding now 32 years , mainly Jappa`s , old Zed`s mostly ..... back in the late 80`s i had a 1976 SuperGlide , slightly customised , the pic under my name at the left there ..... it`s taken me this long to get back into a postion of being able to afford another Harley thanks to a family house project that will be going on the market early to mid August .

Have never lost the interest in HD`s and have allways had a feeling of unfinished buisness after having to sell my Shovel way back due to a few to many run ins with the boys in Blue up here in Good Old Queensland .

My time on the Shovel while not allways fun due to some major electrical problems was still a great time of my life and had it not been for the above mentioned run in`s who knows what route i may have ended up on .... dont get me wrong i have also had some amazing times on my Jappa`s and wouldnt trade them for anything but like i said it`s time for a bit of me time , Lol .... { 52 this year } .

To your query , definitly not drag racing allthough love watching ..... i`ve done rides like 7,500 Km`s in 2 weeks ... Brizzie to Great Ocean Road over to Tassie back up over the Snowies Canberra and back up home ..... Done the Briz to Cairns .... Briz to Eastern Crk back in the mid 90`s ..... Bathurst in 2000 and multiple week enders all over Northern NSW`s and of course Sth East Qld .

I honestly dont know wether i would do the very long rides again wether on a Harley or not only because of my self getting lazier as i am getting older , liking the comforts of life a little to much these days , Lol , but who knows .... to be truthful that is one of the many reasons for the reinterest in getting a Harley ..... i want to reignite my passion , but i surspose in rough figures i would proberbly do at least 4 or 5 weekends away a year , dozens of day rides and heaps of Saturday morning rides with the boys .

I have a few mates with Harleys , 2 in particular with very nice EVO`s , a 96 WideGlide . Aussie dealership one and a 99 Softail import one , both fantastic bikes ..... one mate with a brand new Fat Boy Lo TC but the jury is still out on him as he is a maniac , Lol .... great bloke and amazing rider but still has to much boy racer in him , first day out on it and seariously absolutly grounded the bottom of the floor boards away ..... took it back to Wackers and they said they had never seen so much grounded away before ever , like i said the jury is still out on him , Lol .

Initally i was all about the big back wheel and certain pipes and what not but after being on this forum my eyes have been opened to a few different idears thats for sure and thats what i like about the people on here .... so far .. { and its early days } .. the majority of responses have all been incourging all be it from a couple of different angles .

I take your point that Harley will as most good companys do try and improve their product , they would be crazy not to , but and it`s a pretty big but there is no argument that the Mother Company dosent have the best interest of its clinets at heart as they used to , they are to big a company these days ..... you ask any old timer and not so old timer and they will tell you that for many years you could interchange parts from one Harley model to another and a lot of their internal engine parts were far more reliable in certain areas , especially in the crank shaft areas , main bearings , oil pumps and so on .

There is a fantastic artical in a journal called " The Open Road " which is posted thoughout this site from a guy in America who delves into the basic differences between EVO`s and TC`s in laymans terms that does make a guy stop and think ..... in saying all that though i wont surprise my self one bit if i end up with a 2008 or newer model Softail or Delux or Heritage , i am exploring all the options and the fact that there are some incrediable deals at the moment for TC`s makes that argument all the more interesting .

Proberbly one of the things i dont like about the new stuff and this is going to sound wierd as i said earlier that i like the comforts of life these days and i am getting lazier but i just carnt seem to get my head around all the electrics and computeriseation on the newer models .

So much for a short reply , Lol ..... just realised it is 1 am in the morning and while you have had your Vodka`s , i have had my Bundy`s , so i will leave it there and thank you again for your interest ..... Happy riding Spero .

Cheers Tim .

Hi Guys,
First off, Ron no offence ever taken, I appreciate all views even if I do not necessarily agree with some of them, I certainly do not have your experience with ALL the models, as a matter of fact your earlier posts re exhausts and head work I have taken on board and inconjunction with other research i have commenced polishing my heads whilst I await my new cams. As my riding style does not verge on "ride it like you stole it" I lean to a more relaxed style with long trips and really good days ride, but nothing wrong with pulling away from the lights now and then feeling that the danko rub will be utilised that night on upper limbs.

"The Book" ISBN 978-1-4502-6770-0, I found on google, like most things, but I purchased it through "Fishpond" for the sum of AUD$47, I am a sucker for a good book especially of a technical nature and this one is the best, I will put my neck on the block here and say it is the Bible.
Of interest is the section were he mentions the HD philosophy on design analysis through computer modelling, basically HD design individual components and subject these to stress/failure analysis prior to manufacture, installation and testing. Not a great deal of detail, I can guess that this is due to intellectual property, but gives you the knowledge of HD's strategy and commitment to a better product through technology, design and manufacturing processes. Big sections on cam chests, crankshafts and oil pumps through all the years with detailed pull-down and historical analysis of subject matter.

Enjoy, regards Paul.

Hi Paul , thanks for info on book location .... found a store here in Aussie land that should be able to get it to me .... some light reading ahead , Lol .

One of the guys on this site , KiwiDave i think put me onto another one that you might be interested in giving a read if you ever come across it ..... it`s called

101 Harley-Davidson Evolution performance projects 2 nd edtn ... Kip Woodring & Kenna Love are the authors .


Hey Baloff , thanks for the contribution ..... i`m a pretty new guy on this here site but have found some pretty good people here and it`s great reading some of the stuff , there are also some hilarious comebacks from some of these guys to that makes it all the more fun to read ..... hope i havent bored you to much with some of my post as i can tend to go on sometimes .

Happy reading .

Cheers from Tim .