link worked for me
I cant see the issues of the 3 on stage, the Rebel was the wrong choice and the disappointment that the Angles and Nomads were absent,
the author from London was a goose and a pointless guest, the Police rep on stage was quoting his script.
the reporter running the show was definitely guiding the agenda to the be anti Bikie.

I thought the rest including the lawyers and police in the bleachers represented well,
the two woman with the broken hearts were only there for sensationalism, old girl Zervas had a different message back when Anthony was killed. now don't know if he is in the club.

hard to really get a win for themselves in a 52 minute show on SBS, that was in direct competition with the other series that is hotting up on the action.

True UG.
If the UMC and 1% clubs or F.R.E.E. were to dictate who and what the spokesmen for the interview would be ?? then maybe it would have been perceived to be a better debate.
The reality is it is not just about the 1% .

removed link as not needed now

 

try that cooky

taped it and got to see it last night. wasnt as bad as i thought it was going to be after reading posts on here.

quite clear that the host had a mandate to shut adam shand up whenever he spoke. him and anyone else that had a decent argument.

The sad thing is that all sides looked bad.  They didnt have the representation from clubs with the bigger profiles other than the Rebels.   HA, Finks, Bandidos and Comancheros were all missing..  Its obvious that they didnt go to the UMC to get candidates, but have probably sent an invitation to clubs individually to get a response.  I mean, why would they bring UMC members on the show who have a court case to proceed with?? Their argument is to strong and would tear shreds off the right wing fascists..

Geez surprise surprise. Insight is a government paid and sponsored show. They will depict bikers how the government  wants the public image of bikers to be depicted. Have not seen a decent open discussion on Insight for years.

Simple formula is to just pick a few of the less intelligent representatives from MCC's to provide somewhat controversial content and don't allow real debate on the issue of consorting laws. The fac that The Australian Constitution ammendment(s) specifically prohibts discrimination of people by association. I am amazed no one has challenged these Laws on that point. Was glossed over real quick during the show.

I am freaked out that some of the so called religions get away with stealing and stand over tacticts and the government rewards them with tax free status. No one ever seems to mention that in the media because it would spell the death of said show/politician/government.

Clubbie

I've been saying it for years Mr C.
The constitution will need to be changed before these anti association laws can be enacted.
Either by referendom or a cue de ta IE; Coup
In the mean time the Gov will play lets financially fuck em as they have tried to do with the proceeds of crime legislation.
and then with the medias assistance brainwash the public into thinking that the boogyman rides a Harley.

Lets hope you fella's are right about the Constitution. The SA laws were were only chopped down because of 'wording'. The word 'must' instead of 'may' was used as part of a direction given to a magistrate regarding a control order.

Therefore it didnt give the magistrate any choice to adjudicate. The fact the Attorney General made the Declaration of a group as a criminal gang rather than the judiciary was the other component the High Court overthrew.

In NSW the fact the declaring judge was forbidden from giving his reasons voided that version of these laws.

Both states have re-written and passed the revised versions on their association laws, no doubt paying extra special attention to the hundreds of pages of judgement reasons handed back to them by the High Court.

Legal teams involved with these cases are not as confident as some that the updated versions are as flawed....we shall see..... half a dozen club members are currently on bail in Sydney for Consorting charges, an application to

declare a club a criminal organisation in Queensland has just started its judicial journey this week...so the merry-go-round has started again.

You fella's observation that financially draining clubs who fight these laws is a big part of it are on the money I reckon, in fact it looks like a national attack strategy is on the cards to really stretch the resources of the UMC and

the clubs singled out for declaration. West Oz parliament is close to passing its version and has already named which club will be targeted immediately. NSW police are supposedly close to re-applying for a declaration on the same

club previously attacked. SA has only 1 part of its new 6 part crime gang laws to get through the Upper House to launch on whichever target it chooses too.

As former NSW DPP Nicolas Cowdery stated on the slanted 'Insight' show the seeping of 'anti-terrorist' type laws into ordinary law is a dangerous thing...but it is happening..and once the wedge has opened the door for laws where

the accused HAS to prove their innocence rather than the accuser their guilt then eventually all citizens will be affected somehow. It's a pity much of the sideshow theatrics from that sbs show detracted from most of the important

and relevent stuff that did make it to air...from people like Nicolas that actually know !

 

First they came for the communists and i did not speak out because i was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and i didn't speak out because i wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and i didn't speak out because i wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me and there was no left to speak out for me.

 

TOO True...All Party's, bar the FREE Party, are all aboard the Bandwagon now.

Newman was opposed to using pissant association laws when in Opposition and even when freshly elected....

How things change.. All of 'em will ride the 'tough on crime/bikies' agenda until it runs its course electorally.

Fukin cops are convenient bedfellows on this topic because the burden of proof is lowered to the point of

non-existence for many offences...'secret intell' pfffft !.....RUMOUR, INNUENDO, GOSSIP...and just maybe..LIES

now have a folder to legally hide in so arrest rates are easier to aquire. In a performance based industry like

policing a stout arrest quota's gotta help promotion..?

The recent legislative leaning towards edging Club members or friends and family out of lawfull employment is

something that needs more public exposure, unfortunately Insight skillfully skipped over the topic when it

should have been the priority. Tattoo shops experience a miniscule amount of violence when compared to the

weekly stoushes that go on in Hotels and Nightclubs all over OZ night in night out..... Yet they remain trading,

without much media criticsm..? Long, long ago Club members were forbidden from Licensing approval to run

liquor businesses, then Security companies and even security work was wrested away from Club members

and friends, and yet drug distribution and use in these nightclubs persists ?...so maybe it wasnt the Bikers after all.

Could it be that club members are only going to be able to work in menial jobs, with no possibility of owning or

running your own business because it will be labelled as a 'front for laundering' and promptly regulated away from you ?

Who knows, there might be a better defence to this tack by looking at equal opportunity law..

Civil rights law is a joke in this country...the old adage 'If you do nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about" is

obsolete now, people are prosecuted not for what they do, but for who they are !

rant ova..slow afternoon

Hope U are both right an wrong BC..

Right that this law & order auction will be defeated..

But wrong that it will cost a fortune....

I for one am already near broke.!

GG, your points are true though and I cant agree more. I am personally not involved with an MC as such but I have a bike mechanic who is a fully fledged member. With these laws that the assholes in power are trying to bring in, does that mean if I am present at this persons house, say for instance my bike needs fixing in some way, and we are doing work on it, all of a sudden the pigs decide to do a raid on the premises, does that automatically make me an associate and I get thrown in the slammer, no questions asked even though I have no prior convictions as such?

06, A very similar question was asked of Nicolas Cowdery on the 'Insight' program to which he replied 'Yes'....

It is highly unlikely that your situation would escalate to gaoling...but its possible..and that is the problem with

these laws, its at the Police force's discretion who to book and when...arbitary policing = corrupt policing eventually.

Just being in the presence of a Club member (or in fact anyone with a record..wether you know if they have one or not)

can get you booked for Consorting. After a number of these bookings you may well find yourself in court facing gaol

Fuked or what..!

Perhaps living under some of the Communist regimes was simpler.. Our modern versions of Apartheid type laws are

cleverly deceptive at exposing their true capabilities to most. They seem to be trying to circumvent constitutional protections

by pinning all their draconian restrictions on criminals, or criminal types, or friends of, only.

This seems to protect them from being slammed for racist or minority persecution by not specifically naming targets of their laws,

even if the Authorities make no bones about who they wish to unleash them on...they wisely haven't written it in the legislation.

And it is exactly this broad grey area which is where the authorities think they can catch the most targets...especially ones with

no previous criminal record.

Our argument of course is that this very 'grey area' is exactly where the most innocents will get trapped and all the legal experts

worldwide agree.

Watched it   and personaly i don't think it done the clubs  much good ,, Ok i agree  that the laws can be abused ect ect .. but  that show was not aimed at me , or other bike riders  especially Harley riders , It was aimed at  the general public , and too be honest i don't think the guys on there   would of gained too much support , and especielly because in general  they just did'nt seem to give a fuck what people thought or how they came across. That in itself is enough to scare the shit out of the    mam and dad  in there datsun 120y  .

Definetly would of thought if they were going to go on the show , they would of put up a member who could come across in a more favroble manner  I  doubt very much any copper  would of been allowed on there unless he was calm and articulate , and versed in how to win votes so too speak .. Tom i think it was from the descendents  came across has articulate and gave a good point of view ,, but the others well sorry but  definetly think they were picked out for the answers , that the producers  knew these guys would come out with .

The big guy was set up, with   the girls question , about harming her brothers killer,, he gave the answer that they all knew he would , Me thinks if there gonna go on there again they need to think carefully about who  there going to get to talk for them ..

You could definetly tell the ,  people  from the police ect were well versed in  public speaking .

Fair comment Boxa, and an overall opinion shared by most of us. The media and cops are very slick at public presentation, Bikers are not. According to those I've spoke to

the editing in this particular show did the boys there no justice. As you noted the producers picked the panel and then Brockie orchestrated the questions to (and away from)

people she knew may give a predictable response. There was no way that the outcome was ever gonna be a thumping victory over draconian govt policy, but with no Bikers there

it would have been just another parade of every bad action by Bikers over 40 years and a platform for pollies to spruik more shit on how they are saving the community with more

bullshit laws. When the NSW Attorney General found out late Friday (the day it was filmed) that the Clubs were definitely sending reps, he pulled out. It seems facing hard questions

about questionable legislation is not part of protecting the community after all.....even though Greg Hirst, John Smith and many others present are definitely part of that community.

That back down, if nothing else, was a positive, wether it raised an eyebrow or two out in viewer land, who knows.... but it certainly did with the cops and media present at the show.