OK all, this is NOT a dealer bashing note so please don't start firing up about this one, and the request is to keep this civil and sensible.

Most of us are aware that HD Australia dealers have the option to import  'greys' either used or new from the USA for sale in Oz with the VIN starting with HD1 rather than the 'international export' models with a VIN starting with HD5. I have a good mate that has been riding metric cruisers for years and has recently purchased a 2011 run out Ultra ElectraGlide from a dealer brand new. He got a good deal on it for sure but I won't nominate the price he paid here.

When I looked it over for the first time I checked the VIN and it's a HD1 imported from the states. I asked him if he was informed that his bike was an import and explained the HD1-HD5 scenario to him. He said the selling dealer salesperson never mentioned that it was imported from the states and not an international model.

My question is -- should the dealer have a duty of care to inform a buyer that their hard earned dollars were buying a new HD1 'grey' or HD5 'International'?  

In the case of  rider new to the world of HD they may not necessarily have the nouse to know the difference. If you didn't understand where yours came from but found out later would you be disappointed? Would it matter to you to know that?

Again no bashing please-- if it gets out of hand I'll request a thread delete.

For the record I feel the dealer should inform the buyer if the bike is a direct import converted to Australian ADR's.

I'd be pissed unless I got a really good price - in line with what grey imports usually go for. You only have to look at people's reactions on the eagle empires thread to know that people expect imports (unfairly imo) to be sold cheaper and even the dealers look down at you. It doesn't matter if its the same bike, it matters if you could be put at a disadvantage along the track.

Hi,

My 2c worth.

I think there should be a requirement for any "Grey" import to be declared as such. This should be the case for any import not just harley. It gives the buyer some additional information in the buying decision.

I recently bought a HD5 lowrider and would not have been overly bothered by HD1 although I would have expected to buy the HD1 for a lower price. Somewhere between 10% and15%. If I got off my behind and brought one in myself I would only be bothered if I could have it landed and complied for around 20% lower. (This is based on sharing the savings NOT based on any quality difference in the bike)

I bought HD5 because I couldnt find anything at a better price for my first Harley.

There is also a dealer in Sydney (Non Harley) who has a RAWS license and is bringing Harleys in from the States. From what I saw when I visited there are at a premium (more exp[ensive) when compared to what local Harley dealers are selling HD5 bikes for. The sales guy whi I spoke to didnt mention they were "grey imports" just gave me the run down on each individual bike. When I asked about "Australian Delivered" he said some where and some were not. There was no real help in identifying which was which. When I pointed to the RAWS label he admitted that this meant they were imported. I think of the 8 to 10 bikes there only 2 were HD5.

Every Harley dealer I spoke to in Sydney (I didnt get to one) advised me "verbally" that they wouldnt sell, service or trade HD1 bikes.

Ride Safe

Nigel

do you guys think they are in business to help you out, If I owned this type of business, I would buy my stock from the cheapest source, do the right thing with ADR, not cut corners then sell at market prices, if I had to take of the odd grand to give you the "I stuck it to him" feeling, I would still be getting the sale.
as for service and part sales, WHAT IDIOT would say they wont touch a bike because its VIN had a 1 instead of a 5, they are the same bike, or should I say $150 an hour + parts, and as all parts come from the states (Via China) they would be HD1 parts, that not an issue

It seems if your selling a grey import to the dealer it has no financial value to them.
If your buying a grey import from dealer, "there all just Harleys pay the full price"

Should the HD dealer tell you ? Why hell yeah, as some of the Oz dealer network WILL NOT SELL SERVICE OR TRADE HD1 bikes !

Here in WA the whole dealer network WILL NOT have ANYTHING to do with grey imports , their choice and they're sticking to it !

So yer on yer own with a Yank import here in WA.

Wouldn't bother me as I do all bar tyres myself.

Just recently I had ECM /TSS troubles on a 2008 Softail , and without the HD dealers Digitech I woulda been well fucked ! 

When I phoned them to arrange ECM RE-WRITING they asked quite pointedly was it an import ? It wasn't thankfully so repair went ahead AOK.

OH, AND YES, THE DEALERS WHO IMPORT AND SELL THE YANKEE HP REPOS DO MAKE MUCH MORE THAN THOSE WHO SELL ONLY "GENUINE" HD5 MODELS.

Sold new in Australia basically

The "5HDI" bit denotes an international market model, so it makes ex-Yank bikes easy to spot with the 1HD start to the VIN

That and all the imports have a big fuck off metallic pink "compliance" sticker on the frame somewheres .

Said it before ,, will say it again , they are shooting themselves in the foot , only this week i was going to buy a new road king ,, UNTIL ,, i was offered FUCKALL for my trade in ,, did'nt really question it too much , because arguing was'nt gonna get me more money , but i was told mine was worth fuck all because its high mileage ,, 35 000 klm .. and its a tourer for fuck sake... But like the salesmen said they can buty LOWER mileage bikes for fuck all , and by that i know they mean imports because 7 out of 9 of there seconhand harleys are imports ,..

 hi,

are the dealers (HH. PS etc) getting these 1hd complianced in Aus or do they get some special clearance to import out of US and put on floor?

thanks

robots

TO ROBOTS

Mate I have heard from a good source that they are "making them Aussie spec" AKA compliant over there, by fitting the Km/H speedos and the left dipping headlight. They also doctor the indicators to be "off" except when you hit the button.

It's as easy as fuck and a no brainer to do, so why wouldn't ya ?

I don't see Aussie HD dealers paying some mob here to work on their bikes. Unless they have their own RAWS workshop of course !

Thanks to all for excellent factual comments. Choppa-- this is not in any way a reference to you-- your buyers know your business and you put it up front--bless ya!

Just for the record, my mate is not unhappy and is not looking to speak with cunsumer affairs or indeed do anything at all. If he would have taken me with him I would have pointed this out to him on the side for his further bargaining power, if any. He just hasn't been in the world of HD long enough to understand any impact of buying a 1HD bike.

Also for record is the fact the selling dealer never indicated the bike was a yank import but it was indeed a brand spankers new bike and sold as one. He did receive a discount but it was due to end of year runout-- NOT becasue it was cheaper for the dealer to buy and bring in under the compliance system.

As for the dealers selling them at the near same price as the 5HD bikes consider this. Your a dealer with 1HD and 5HD new bikes on the floor. A customer comes in and says he wants a new bike. You wouldn't show him both and say that 1HD bikes are cheaper than 5HD so buy one of those instead.

Here's my opinion. I believe the dealer has a duty of care to inform the buyer that they are buying a direct import 1HD or an Aussie delivery 5HD. Indirectly I also believe in the buyer doing due diligence to satisfy him/herself of what they are buying, and take necessary action to negotiate price accordingly or not as they see fit, but I strongly feel the dealer SHOULD inform the customer that the bike originated for the country of origin market.

As for the dealers not servicing direct imports by the consumer, yet selling them out the side door is a double standard and should not be tolerated by the consumer. The dealers should not have it both ways.

I hope a dealer(s) are reading this and understand the intent-- please don't withold information to potential customers about where you get your stock. This practice may be considered deceptive by buyers at some point, with loss of reputation for your business.

PS-- an informed person is a person aware...................

I hope a dealer(s) are reading this and understand the intent-- please don't withold information to potential customers about where you get your stock. This practice may be considered deceptive by buyers at some point, with loss of reputation for your business.

Bit like asking the big bad wolf , not too eat grandma

I cant see the issue, if you buy a brand new bike here, the bike has to come from the State, already set up for the our ADR,
the warranty will still be the same, the bike is the same.
Why would you expect it to be cheaper to buy?
If you buy a bike from a HD dealer in Australia, your warranty has to be covered by all HD service Dpts.

If you buy a bike from an AU dealer, he buys it from a US dealer, it's ADR'ed prior to shipping, efectivelly you are buying a second hand bike, then maybe you have a claim for the second hand price, (is warranty transferable?)

The "drama" will come at resale time. One way or another.

All of the WA HD Franchised dealers WILL NOT TAKE your 1HD bike as a trade in.

Or service it , or carry out warranty work on it

THE PERTH DEALERS HAVE ALREADY REFUSED WARRANTY WORK ON GREYS FROM THE EAST MULTIPLE TIMES !!

You can bang on all day about the rights and wrongs of that but it's their business and it's their considered decision.

The eastern states HD dealers who sold you the bike had damn well better take them as trades, but they will ALWAYS have the US bought price at the back of their minds, not the price YOU PAID them in Australia !!

You can bet Yo' ass on that one folks !

So Will 1HD and 5HD bikes have a different residual in 3/4/5 years ?

Well probably, but BOTH will be lower than the high residuals Harleys used to "enjoy" in Australia at least !

I've already had real cheeky cNuts offer me $20K for my 5HD 2008 Softail Custom on the back of cheaper import prices ??

" Aye right " as they say in Scotland where I hailed from a long time ago !

if the WA dealers can turn you away and refuse warranty work because "it is their business" and can do whatever they like, yet still are ONLY a franchise under the HD umbrella, why are the US based dealers under the direct instruction they cant sell parts to Australia?
would all franchise have to follow HD rules?

I think if you kick up enough fuss, they will have to do any warranty work because HD will say so, now would you want to take your bike to them then? I don't think I would

The " no parts out of the US " thing is because HD Australia is a wholly owned subset of HD USA . That's why that mandate came about .

The Aussie HD dealer network have a choice to be in OR out of the used import thing.

Let's face it, most US imports are over 2 years old anyways so "Factory OEM" warranty is a non starter period !

All of the Frasers group elected to NOT be in it, fair enough. They don't profit from the buy US / sell Australia price bonanza, so they don't want any of the grief of working on imports in any fashion.

Harley CANNOT "make them" work on Grey import bikes, not no how, not no way !!

If you buy a grey import then you have to be prepared ( in WA at least !) for no dealer backup should you need it.

I will be buying a used CVO out of the states as my next bike ( why wouldn't you ??) and will take that calculated risk.

Right now the dealers are thinking their stance is going to force people to buy from them - judging from the amount of people importing or buying imports they are going to be in for a rude shock and hopefully a few good bike repair shops are going to make some case out of the BS.

As mentioned, this is a very interesting topic,.... I recently purchased a CVO from Florida coming via Chopaweeza following an attempt to purchase same from a dealer, and trading my '08 Heritage purchased from them....I spent a couple of days in a fury being totally outraged at the trade in price offered, but after cooling down, I realised that the object of business is to make a profit and began to see things from their point of view, being a Wholesaler in my previous life. There IS room for all and it's in the dealers interests in getting bums on Harley's, as it is with most of us posting on this forum

They could purchase lower mileage bikes from the US at a fraction of what I considered fair for mine, so in their situation I would have, and did the same, and everyone is free to do the likewise.

I am amazed that the WA dealers have taken this stance as most of the profit is in servicing. we don't seem to have this problem in Vic. so to me it shows shallow and short term thinking in the WA dealers...yes I saved substantially by importing my own and I can assure anyone thinking along the same lines, there are some absolutely beautiful bikes to be found in the US and I for one got VERY lucky, the US seller and I have become good friends...Sure, there are a few moments when you say "oh shit what have I done", but they are few and the rewards are huge..............worth a thought, we all win as major services still make the dollar go round.....

 

I wouldn't be happy if an oz dealer sold me a grey import without telling me.

Who was the dealer in this particular instance? No point hiding this info.

There WILL be a price difference down the track between 1HD and 5HD bikes. How much remains to be seen.

It's not too long a bow to draw, but here in Perth original Aussie complianced Porsche / BMW / and Mercedes draw substantially better residual than all those brought from US and UK by local "entrepreneurs".

First question, " Is it Australian compliance from new ? " asked by dealers and buyers.

At least here in the West, and probably over east as well, that will become a common refrain with young used Harleys.

To Scouser, I'm sure your 35TH anniversary Dyna is schmick enough, but the dealer chain who sold it to you bought it out of Japan for SFA and you'd better believe it. So why would he ( or any other bike dealer !) later give you "Aussie" money for it in a trade ? It's worth less to them now than they paid for it in Japan before they sold it to you FFsake ! AND your bike is a 5HDI anyways is it not ?

Fuck they'd rather buy more abroad, ( why the fuck wouldn't they ??) at least while the Aussie dollar stays high(ish).