Online: B0nes, Hilly

Anti Gang Laws Passed in NSW

  • Superglide2012
    Superglide2012
    13 years ago
    WOW! Take about Communism in another form. Freedom of association squashed for what gain? Nothing , nil narda!
    Just a bunch of retarded politicians trying to look good in the eyes of the sheeple.
    Its a sad day in Australian History.
    Well Comrades I can see this law being abused to the 'Nth" degree, cant you?
  • Wimbo
    Wimbo
    13 years ago

    Does this include the top Criminal Organisation in the state?

    Parliment.

    The're all terrorists.

    The waste, year after year and they bring a Bill in like this and pass it.

    How naieve or Bent are these fucks.

    Problem is that the normal Tax Payer cant see it or turn an eye to it.

    So Sad the Song.

  • angry
    angry
    13 years ago
    most legal experts seem to think this revised version is unconstitutional and will not stand up to a high court challenge as well. the use of "secret evidence" along with evidence that cant be argued,the change of assumption of innocence to balance of probabilities is also a major concern for the legal brains.
  • HOG-JOCKEY
    HOG-JOCKEY
    13 years ago

    Onya angry

    Do you have a link that states the difference between what was and is now and what has been altered.

    I think there could be many sections within the old and revised acts that would be hard to disseminate.

    I don't know if the findings of the last challenge was concise enough to show the NSW and other Parliaments that a prima faci case and habious corpus is fundamental to a democratic society and is contrary to UN resolutions in `1948 adhoc.
    What are they going to try next, A clear and present danger???

    These AG's with their dick swinging,chest beating will not quit until the Australian Government or in part are taken to the UN or similar sections of world justices and prove themselves any better than Syria etc. etc etc The High and mighty bullshit artists that they are proving themselves to be time and time again.

    It's not their money anyway that they spend supporting sectarian acts of parliament that are not only against their own constitution but human rights.
    Really shouldn't a MLA quit their position if they have sworn an oath and then fail to keep it??

    A letter is being drafted to my NSW MLA
    Maybe a call or similar letter to those that GAF would be in order.

    Don't get me wrong I am not supporting any illegal activity in the least.A crime is a crime , there are laws against crimes and should be debated and penalties justified in A COURT OF LAW
    It is all about the "vibe" of the Gov wanting to further change democracy with more laws rules and regulations that inhibit personal rights and freedoms.

  • willo_GFFG
    willo_GFFG
    13 years ago

     DON'T  PANIC  YET - the club has to be declared a criminal organisation 1st.

  • GG-74
    GG-74
    13 years ago

    NSW solicitor Wayne Baffsky who took the last version of these laws to the High Court and won is speaking on Greg Hirsts radio show tonight 10-midnight  on 2ccr fm 'ride' and on the internet..about these changes.....

    alive905.com.au/listen/listenonline/

  • terroristone
    terroristone
    13 years ago
    Thanks for the link GG, listening in now.
    T1
  • GG-74
    GG-74
    13 years ago

    Yeah Wayne has said that many times before about the cost to defend being prohibitive.

    In one interview he seems to explain it is because of the sheer size of the HA's brief. Apparently the evidence against them involves boxes and boxes of info from around the world covering 60+ years.....some of it just media reports !.. but it all has to be dissected and contested piece by piece, and its the cost of a team of  defence lawyers to do that  is what he means I think.  An application against a smaller club with a lesser volume of evidence against it may be able to be managed by a smaller team...perhaps that is part of the tactic behind the NSW gov's choice, an attempt to financially drain each target until they are unable to defend themselves.. 

    Scouser, here is a link to the NSW bill. Its called the Crimes(Criminal Organisations Control) Bill 2012

    The link to parliament on this page identifies the changes between the old version and the new. Follow the links in Hansard for Wed the 14th march in the Legislative Assembly.   

    www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/bills

  • C
    C
    13 years ago

    13 Conduct of hearings of applications for declarations under this Part
    (1) The rules of evidence do not apply to the hearing of an application under
    this Part.

    So the courts can hear "heresay" evidence - "evidence" that requires no proof

    32 Burden of proof
    (1) Any question of fact to be decided in proceedings under this Act is to be
    decided on the balance of probabilities.

    This is how civil - not criminal disputes are decided, a much lower threshold.

    (7) For the purposes of this section, a control order made in relation to a
    person is conclusive evidence that the person is a controlled member of
    the particular declared organisation
    to which the control order relates
    and of the terms of the order (including any exemptions from the
    operation of this section under section 19 (7) (a)).

    So, the rules of evidence do not have to apply, then when an order is made it is deemed to be "conclusive evidence" - meaning nothing further is required.

    (6) For the avoidance of doubt, in proceedings for an offence against this
    section, it is not necessary for the prosecution to prove that the
    defendant associated with another person for any particular purpose or
    that the association would have led to the commission of any offence.

    A person who has an order against them can then get charged with the offence of associating with another person without the need for police to have to prove there was any offences being committed. The jail periods are 2 - 5 years.. To summarise, they require no evidence to be tested through normal judicial processes, an order can be made, that order in itself is then apparently enough "evidence" to have someone sent to jail.

    34 Immunity from liability
    No civil or criminal liability attaches to:
    (a) the Attorney General, the Commissioner, a police officer or other
    person exercising functions under this Act (whether or not under
    delegation), or
    (b) the Crown,

    That part is gold, if they "act in good faith" applying for an order or charging people with the offences and get it wrong they cant be held liable and sued or charged for perjury and the like.

    (5) The following forms of associations are to be disregarded for the
    purposes of this section in its application to a defendant to whom an
    interim control order relates if the defendant proves that the association
    was reasonable in the circumstances:
    (a) associations between close family members,
    (b) associations occurring in the course of a lawful occupation,
    business or profession,
    (c) associations occurring at a course of training or education of a
    kind prescribed by the regulations between persons enrolled in
    the course,
    (d) associations occurring at a rehabilitation, counselling or therapy
    session of a kind prescribed by the regulations,
    (e) associations occurring in lawful custody or in the course of
    complying with a court order,
    (f) other associations of a kind prescribed by the regulations.

    These are options for those on receiving end of an order, possible defences.

    Heres a final thought, police forces worldwide are known to have police involved in crimes - hence why they all have their own internal investigators and external investigative / oversight bodies. This legislation does not require all people associated with a "criminal" organisation to be involved in crimes, just some who have influence over others. So how about police forces be deemed a "Criminal Organisation". Only difficult part is that the orders can only be applied for by police, fairly unlikely..

     

  • Dragon Man
    Dragon Man
    13 years ago

     (5) The following forms of associations are to be disregarded for the
    purposes of this section in its application to a defendant to whom an
    interim control order relates if the defendant proves that the association
    was reasonable in the circumstances:
    (a) associations between close family members,
    (b) associations occurring in the course of a lawful occupation,
    business or profession,

    (c) associations occurring at a course of training or education of a
    kind prescribed by the regulations between persons enrolled in
    the course,
    (d) associations occurring at a rehabilitation, counselling or therapy
    session of a kind prescribed by the regulations,
    (e) associations occurring in lawful custody or in the course of
    complying with a court order,
    (f) other associations of a kind prescribed by the regulations.

     

    So a Club can register itself as a lawful business and they can all be together, carrying out their business 

  • Merlin
    Merlin
    13 years ago
    Exactly. "We're just mechanics. Sometimes we go for a ride to liaise with other mechanics."
  • Dragon Man
    Dragon Man
    13 years ago

    For being a 'Generic' Law for Organised crime, who fits this section?

     

    3 Definitions

    (1) In this Act: member of an organisation includes:
    (b) in any case:
     (i) an associate member or prospective member (however
    described) of the organisation,
     
    Apart from Motorcycle Clubs, who else has Associate members or Prospects?
    And the "(however described)" can mean Noms and Probationaries!
     
     
    I find this interesting too:
     
    9 Eligible Judge may make declaration
    (1) If, on the making of an application by the Commissioner under this Part
    in relation to a particular organisation, the eligible Judge is satisfied
    that:
    (a) members of the organisation associate for the purpose of
    organising, planning, facilitating, supporting or engaging in
    serious criminal activity, and
    (b) the organisation represents a risk to public safety and order in this
    State,
    the eligible Judge may make a declaration under this Part that the
    particular organisation is a declared organisation for the purposes of this
    Act.
     
    The Judge must be satisfied that  part (a) AND part (b) are declared.
     
    Not OR, or AND/OR. It says AND.
     
    So to me that means that an organisation can be part (a): 'organising, planning, facilitating, supporting or engaging in
    serious criminal activity, but if it isn't part (b) representing a risk to public safety and order in this State, then it is invalid to declare them as an organised criminal organisation.
    The law says they must being doing both parts (a) AND (b).
     
    The Law also discrimates. If 5, or 3, or even 1 member is fulfilling part (a) and part (b), then the whole club and all its members, associates, Prospects, Noms, etc etc are guilty and classified as a Criminal Organisation!
     
     
     
  • C
    C
    13 years ago
    You are right Dragon Man - it does say "AND" - but "9 Eligible Judge MAY make declaration..." the word "MAY" is used throughout the Bill for all the sections about what "evidence" the judge "may" consider to make his decision - there are no 'must' considers like normal legislation, so they are not bound to any bench marks to form their decision in the first place, in theory then they could decide a club fits all the categories without much real evidence in the first place..