Ok new solenoid, new circuit breaker, new ignition switch. When I hit the start button she arcs up but wont arc off!!! The starter motor keeps runnin, so I am thinkin perhaps the solenoid is sticking and if so how do I stop it? Or if its not that anyone got a clue??

solenoid only pulls drive gear into place it shouldnt cause starter motor to keep running,have you checked your starter button, might be sticking on,or starter relay is sticking.hope you get it sorted,not lomg to edonhope.

 It won't be the ign switch or circuit breaker, as clarkie says, the problem is in the starter circuit somewhere.

Starter button > starter reley > solenoid.

Disconect the starter actuating wire to the solenoid and connect it to a test light,,, press the starter button a few times to see if it is going on and off, or if it stays on. If it stays on then you know the problem is in that part of the circuit. (sticky switch or reley)

If the above checks out OK, then you gotta find out why the solenoid contacts are staying closed after the actuating current is stopped,

return spring in place and OK?

plunger free in solenoid bore?

or highly improbable, that the switched side of solenoid contact is feeding the solenoid coil once activated, would only happen if there was an internal short inside the solenoid cap,

[[or you have connected a wire from the switched side back to solenoid actuator terminal on the outside. (Extremely improbable but possible) ]]

 

Hope ya get onto it soon Burnzi, the old girl has been giving you too much grief of late.

Or.....i had a similiar problem .... it was the stud on the end of starter shaft ( dont know the correct termanoligies or names ) ....anyways it had come loose, so what was happening was the starter cog wasnt retracting and was staying put in the gearbox cog which of course kept the starter turning over after bike was started......if ya can understand my uneducated mechanical explanation.....LOL

What year model? 88 and earlier?

Is there another way of shuttin it off when it does this, I have put it in gear and stalled it out but it takes a while, and I am sick of burnt fingers and sparks tryin to un do the battery cables. The starter keeps runnin despite the kill switch and the ignition being switched off. Also noticed I cant start in the first key on position, only lights on position

Stalling it sounds pretty dramatic and is probably causing damage somewhere along the liine Burnzi.

 Should be able to start her in both ign switch positions, first thought is that the connector that feeds the starter switch is connected to the wrong terminal on the ign switch. It may have to be taken off the "lights terminal " and connected to the "ign" (first key on) terminal so that power is fed in both positions. This alone isn't what's causing the starter to keep running.

So the starter is still drawing current even after the starter switch and reley are no longer supplying it,,, means that power is still bridging the starter motor somehow internaly from the main power battery terminal.

Once you disconnect the power lead it stops,,, and I'm guessing when you re-connect the main lead all is OK until you activate the starter soleniod again, then it stays connected again. If that's the case, then it means power is being supplied to the solenoid internaly from the main power terminal (after activating.) Hence keeping the started self activated.

You can confirm this by disconecting the starter switch/reley lead to the solenoid and using a small jumper lead to supply power to the solenoid terminal from battery + to activate it. If the starter keeps running after you disconect the jumper lead then it's confirmed that the problem is within the starter/solenoid.

Either the solenoid contacts or plunger are sticking, or power is being supplied to the solenoid coil via a short, keeping the contacts conected and starter motor running.

 

P.S. probably a good idea to remove the starter motor and run it up on a bench to sort it out before any further problems occur.

Hey Burnzi,
Mine done that after getting a bit of water in the relay, was a week after riding in heavy rain the fukker decided to stick when i went to take the bike out. opened it up and it was all rusty inside, i replaced it and had not covered it up washed the bike rode over to kyneton and stopped for fuel at heathcote on the way back and i had to short the starter out to start it as the relay wouldnt kick in, pulled that one apart and it was shitty inside as well.

starter clutch my guess.

 So what's cookin Burnzi, any update?

It could be a number of things, but to list a few things that, according to theory, it could be but quite likely is not......
Starter button
Starter relay
Starter drive gear.
Wiring issue.

The number one cause of sticking starter on early type is low battery voltage. If the starter drive gear remains engaged, then current continues to flow(under the standard set-up). If there is insufficient oomph to push the ring gear "free" as it were, then the starter clutch remains engaged, which ensures continued starter operation.

NEVER PUT YOUR BIKE IN GEAR IF THIS HAPPENS.

If you have a kickstart, then a few strokes can relieve the pressure on the starter dv gear, and allow it to retract.

Other causes, aside from the ones above, can be mis-alignment, loose starter drive collar, incorrect end-play, excessively burned contacts on solenoid contact plate, incorrect collar, and more.

Rewiring via a Ford (FLH) starter relay, in addition to the existing relay, can at least solve the power connection issue, although not the actual sticking on itself. At least the starter wont be driving, and you could bump it in gear to free it.

It's a bad system, with many pitfalls. But, as we know, can work ok.

I suggest a thorough check of battery, leads, and charging system, and then a careful step by step check of the entire starter system mechanical set-up (end play, straightness of shaft, solenoid condition, etc). Don't forget, in this case, end play has to be set at both ends separately.

It is not the ignition switch or circuit breaker.

There is a difference between the solenoid sticking, and being stuck on(jammed). Inside/outside, if you take my meaning.

starter drive is on a fork or simular thing,solenoid is like an elctro magnet and pushes or pulls the starter drive onto clutch hub which allows the starter motor to then turn over motor,when motor starts and you release starter button solenoid then pull drive away from clutch hub,and starter motor then stops turning,if starter is turning and motor not turning over starter drive could be stuffed,

Battery does not sound low. But, it is the performance of the battery under heavy load that really counts.
I do not know if there is anything wrong with your battery or not. Possibly not.
It sounds like you may have a couple of issues all rolled up into one.

The starter clutch has nothing to do with the starter motor staying engaged, in respect of the internal ramp construction.
But it may well have everything to do with the starter motor not driving the engine at all.
Two completely different issues.

If you were to change the st dv clutch, and it solved the jam on issue, it would be pure coincidence. Only a very noticeable malformation of the teeth on the clutch could cause that, and I have never seen it in 30 years.

I mentioned fitting an additional heavy relay. Just realise that......
It is not an upgrade, but a workaround(for pre 89). The issue typically remains unsolved.
It does not cure a lot of problems, it bandaids part of one problem.
It frequently does not cure anything, it just reduces the agony, by providing an electrical disconnect. The jamming often remains.
However......... it is true that if the solenoid is only "just sticking", as it were, then you could get a result. But it is not guaranteed. But it might help very well.
Either way, I do see it as a plus.


Is this a belt drive?

Burnzi, how are you testing the battery matre? Unless you have a load tester you wont get an accurate indication of the batteries condition.

Removed primary cover, shaft on the starter motor is spinning but the solenoid is not pushing it onto the ring gear. I manually pulled the starter shaft on to the ring gear, (battery disconnected) but there is some resistence to it returning, it feels like the fork that pushes the shaft on is holding it in place and not letting it return (could this be bent?) If its not that could it be a lip on the shaft not letting the starter drive return along the shaft??

 

Ok Solenoid tests good, the fork that pushes the starter drive onto the ring gear is good (when the starter drive is jammed on the ring gear the forks are still loose. ie they are not holding the starter drive out) Appears to be a wear mark on the shaft that is stopping the starter drive from pushing back

Question; How do I get the starter drive off, I know the thread is left hand but how to hold the shaft in order to remove the nut?

Have you had the starter motor out to have a look at the gear sets for wear? If the ring gear or bendix drive are worn, they can cause the starter motor to stay engaged. This can give the impression that the starter motor is still going. if it is locked in the engaged position, this will hold the solenoid and therefore power will still go to the starter motor. You must understand that power from the starter button is only powering the solenoid to pull it in. The power for the starter moter itself is drawn directly from the battery. This can all be checked with a test light. PM me if you wish and I will give a contact nuber to discuss further. There are simple test procedures to follow.

Ok I have just "DRIVEN" to the GP and am back to my problem.

While the primary cover was off we tried starting the bike, once again the solenoid is throwing the starter drive onto the ring gear but at this stage it is jamming on and will not turn off via the kill switch or ignition. Once again I had to take a battery lead off to stop the starter from running. The fork that throws the starter drive on to the ring gear does not appear to be the problem as it is loose on the starter drive even though the starter drive is jammed. It takes a bit to push it back.

When I took the bike for its service, (a month ago) it stopped 8 or so times on the way to Melbourne (peak hour fun... not) I kept having to start the bike as it was rolling and I am wondering if this may have damaged the starter shaft by throwing it onto an already spinning ring gear (the starter drive/clutch appears fine, ie not spinning backwards)

It appears that the shaft has a ridge on it stopping the starter drive from returning or could it have flogged out the bearing at the reduction/starter motor end? The starter motor is off and I am almost ready to pull the starter shaft out but I have to lift the oil tank slightly to access it. Tomorrow nights job. 

Ray "If the starter starts the engine but remains engaged you should be able to start the engine with the clutch cover off and see if its the engagement arm or the solenoid thats sticking and holding it in place" Thats exactly what is happening, have tested the solenoid (brand new) and it is testing fine, as I said above the engagement arm is actually loose and therefore not holding it on, which is what has bought me to the possibility of damage to the shaft itself.