UNWANTED OIL FLOW AFTER COLD START

  • JDKSPLACE
    JDKSPLACE
    14 years ago

    HI... THE PROBLEM IM HAVING IS...EVERYTIME I KICK MY  75 SHOVEL OVER,IT SPEWS OUT ABOUT AQUARTER TO HALF A GLASS OF OIL OUT THE OIL LINE(ENGINE CASE BREATHER./OVER FLOW)IM CURRENTLY RUNNING AN OPEN PRIMARY.AT FIRST IT COMES OUT PRETTY MUCH FLOWINGAFTER IT EXPELLS THE QUARTER TO HALF A GLASS IT CONTINUES TO SPRAY OUT MORE ,BUT MUCH LESS.SO IT IS PRODOMINATLY AFTER A COLD START.IF YA KICK IT OVERWITH OUT TURNING THE BIKE ON ,YUO CAN SEE IT PUSHING OIL OUT WITH EACH KICK...ANY ANSWERS OR IDEAS APPRECIATED...CHEERS J.

  • Filthy
    Filthy
    14 years ago
    G'day JDKSPLACE. Your bike is "Wet Sumping". Oil is flowing past the valve in the oil pump - generally due to poor seating of the valve - and accumulating in the sump. It then flows out the crankcase breather under pressure once you start turning the motor over (the "compression" action of the pistons pressurising the sump). Shouldn't usually happen if the bike is run reasonably regularly and should clear itself pretty quickly once the bike is started - although depending on how bad it is it might spew a bit of oil before it stops. Whilst I haven't needed to do it myself, I believe it's a pretty easy remedy.

    Philthy
  • houli
    houli
    14 years ago

    Probably some crap under the ball, take out the ball and spring and give it a clean, if that doesn`t work you can use an evo pushrod with some fine grinding paste to clean the seat. be sure to clean it well afterwards. 

  • Filthy
    Filthy
    14 years ago
    Good tip Houli. Whilst a new oil pump can't hurt, I don't believe wet sumping necessarily warrants the expense . . .

    Philthy
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    14 years ago

    Good advice here, just wanted to add, sometimes it can be a cracked piston.

    i put a new oil pump on shovel, still did it ( but it never did it from new! ) when my shovel was brand new never had one oil leak. no different to my twin cam. latter found i was runing with a cracked piston for five years, but i'm deaf so did not know, bike flew did not seem to hurt performance, just got harder to kick start & wet sumped bad. i solved the wet sump by carrying a plastic rachet vice ( looks like a pare of sizors ) i would sandwich the oil hose that the oil ran down to the crank from. i would leave that on, kick start the bike then  pull it off quick. carried it with me used it every time i turned it off. the shovel has since been fixed by Cow at L A Cycles, new pistons. my m8 now owns it and has a 6 speed riviera gear box open primary with electric start. not one oil leak from motor or gear box . uses velva touch hydralic lifters. he loves the bike wont ever part with it. i love what i got now.

    cheers

  • DynaRider
    DynaRider
    14 years ago
    A cracked piston has no impact whatsoever on the wet sumping issue. That only results in additional case pressure. Blow-by(which is effectively the same issue in this dynamic) only results in oil mist(which can be evidenced as drips), not oil flow.
    And clearly, a motorcycle cannot have full performance, and such devastating compression failure all at once.
    The oil flows out when the level in the cam case rises above the higher outlet pipe. If you were to take the breather line off, and drop it down low, it would run out until the level dropped below the pipe, (just like a disconnected feed line)
    Many an old brit banger has an inline tap owner-fitted on the oil feed line.
    A new oil pump is effectively useless as a fix, as it is exactly the same design, and it is the failure of the design that causes the issue, not the failure of the pump.
    Of course, contaminants play their part, but if you are going to suggest a new pump, you might just as well suggest a new engine. Makes just as much sense.
    I do not understand how people think the seat that the check ball sits on becomes damaged or worn. In some cases they can certainly be improved upon in respect of their seating capabilities, but of course that applies equally to a new pump as well.

    Before HD got all high tech with there training, they used videos for dealer instruction. The pre delivery video gives clear instructions on how BRAND NEW MOTORCYCLES (and we are talking 92 and earlier, of course) have to have their breather line temporarily redirected to the oil tank on start-up, as the oil tank will have drained into the lower end of the engine. This was due to the extended shipping times to HDI locations.

    So if you are starting an earlier model after a bit of a lay off, it would be quite unrealistic to not consider how to handle likely wet sumping issues. If it happens daily, then foreign matter is likely the culprit.

    If it spits while you ride, it is quite likely engine wear.

    And if it pours out while riding, the integrity of the gasket seal in respect of the breather trap is called into question.
  • houli
    houli
    14 years ago

    I do not understand how people think the seat that the check ball sits on becomes damaged or worn

    Pretty simple valve failure analysis, crap gets between hard valve "the ball" and soft seat "alloy pump" and when valve closes damage accurs,now that wasn`t too difficult was it? and it didn`t need 20 lines of i`m the most knowledgeable motorcycle grease monkey to have ever walked upright.................

  • JDKSPLACE
    JDKSPLACE
    14 years ago

    Thanx heaps 4 all the responses,Ive now got direction,nice to know that it aint a mystery,and there is light at the end of the tunnel,as this is (hopefully)the last f@#kin hurdle b4 gettin it redgistered and back on the road,once again...thanx 4 all the info.TO ALL...CHEERS

  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    14 years ago

    Good luck m8, you mentioned it runs open primary, what drive is it useing? like 3 inch wide belt? or what?

    as i ran for years with three inch belt primary, my old shovel still runs one. if it has and its kick start only, check how they have stoped primary oil feed from engine to primary. also check if it has a brace from gear box to motor to take place of inner primary cover, as some people never used anything & gearbox can slide out of line.

    About me mentioning the cracked piston causing wet sump, i spoke to Daddyracer yesturday, he said he has never said a cracked piston can cause wet sumping. so forget about that.

    also like to congratulate Daddyracer as he won the final of Screamin Eagle Harleys @ Sydney Drags yesturday , also ran 10.66 124mph on a 103 cubic inch twin cam EFI street bob. young Scott on a 120r powered Wide Glide ran 10.5 126mph both with Stock Harley pipes slip on muffs. me i only managed 11.8 116mph on my 95" twin cam but road it to track & home.

    cheers