Red what is the retail price for that here?
Certainly does
Well well, I was just in the news agent and skimming through the latest Australian Motorcycle News magazine when what do I see but an article saying that Harley Australia has dropped prices on many of its 2012 models by 25%. WHY DID THEY DO THIS? The article quotes the sales manager as saying because they were losing sales to the grey market. In short, competition caused them to drop prices. When the bastards have to complete they can do so. The legislation still needs to change but for now, well done to all you guys who have been importing 'greys'!!! Without you Harley would not have dropped their price! It's a good drop, and I may do a trade-in, but there is likely more to come in 2013 and 2014.
greys fucked it up all owners of greys should be taken out and shoot ok maybe just deported to the states
From Cheech81, It's not the grey market that is the problem. I other countries where there is no restrictions used bikes coming into the country forces big outfits like Harley to be more comeditive. I have been self-employed in Florida in the states for 20 years and I have been doing quite well on older used Harley's because H.D. thumb their noses at us old time bikers. But here if it wasn't for us Harley would be out of business long ago. They are nothing for me to worry about.
I've followed this thread from the start so my interest is in both camps. Like you Mongrel, I don't intend to on-sell my bike. I LOVE 'the brand' and this is my second Harley and it's a keeper.
However, I couldn't understand the excessive HD costs in OZ and what particularly got up my nose was seeing the 'grey' USA imports sitting in Aussie Bike Shops for the equivalent Aussie price. I was aware how much Aussie Dealers were paying for these US bikes in the USA and I felt they had a damn gall selling them here in OZ for double the price!
For example I know full well a low mileage 2008 Heritage is available for about $12 to $13K in the USA. But here it was sitting proud in an Aussie shop at $29,000.00. That's second hand with a purple import sticker!
So I imported a HD from the USA. It really came down to my economics - how much can I afford. And why would I pay double?? But having said that I fully understand and empathise with Mongrel's post, particularly the BMW v Hyundai example. That's put it all beautifully into perspective.
Not sure what to tell ya other than I did what was right for MY wallet.
First a correction, in an earlier post I mistakenly said HD has dropped prices 25%, in fact the figure is 15% or less and only on a small range of bikes. My apologies, I confused a figure mentioning “25% of sales” with a figure mentioning “over 15%” discount. When I made the incorrect post I was quoting from memory as I had not yet purchased the mag, only scanned the article at the News Agent's. I now have purchased the mag and provide more, and accurate, information below.
I do suggest you buy the mag yourself as I have intentional only included selected snippets here; after all, they make money on mag sales and have provided a very useful bit of insight with this article.
From the Australian Motorcycle News article, (Vol 16, No 8, 12-25 Oct, 2011 page 10) (not available online);
… [HD] announced a significant price drop across the line-up … to counter issues it is faced with
… touring models ... [pricing] unchanged … despite the addition of the … 103 cubic inch engine and ABS.
… [also] trying to realign the price with the American market...
… [Peter Nochar, HD Aus's MD] said, “38% of people... said we were too expensive – and that's hard to ignore.”
… grey imports are a constant challenge [taking] “25 percent of our sales”
… [Nochar] said, “Hopefully the new pricing … will see grey imports dry up...”
So, HD has heard us and is reacting. They know there are “issues”, that they're “too expensive”, that they can no longer “ignore” the customers and that “the grey's are taking sales”.
But their reaction is largely smoke and mirrors with their approach being to “hype” relatively marginal change as if it is significant. Their moral turpitude is clearly evident throughout the article and worth highlighting from a few of the above quotes.
“... a significant price drop across the line-up..”, bullshit, they have raised prices on the largest selling portion of the line-up and left prices unchanged on about 20 of their 27 models. One has to wonder if the MD actually believes this bumpf as there is no way anyone could see these price drops as significant across the line-up.
It is also worth highlighting that MOST of the price drops are a complete con; most largely happened last year.
HD dropped prices on the 2011's at the end of June, sold out old stock and then introduced the new 2012's at the same or a slightly lower price than the discounted 2011's. If anyone thinking of buying these discounted 2011's in June /July had waited for a 2012 you would now have new stock and at a better price. HD knew this and conned the market. And don't think for a moment they could not have reduced the 2011's to the same price as the 2012's would sell for, or even less, knowing full well these discounted 2011's would be further devalued within a month or two. Their profit margin would easily have allowed for it.
There is one other glaring “price drop” fabrication in the article that is worth pointing out. The price of the 2011 Super Low 883 is shown as being $14,250 and is claimed to be reduced for 2012 to $12,895. BUT, the 2011 price list published in late 2010 shows the 883 Super Low priced at $12,895. SO, to con the market into thinking a price drop has been provided the article uses an inflated price of $14,250 as the old price. THAT IS JUST OUTRIGHT DISHONEST!
“... despite the addition of the … 103 cubic inch engine and ABS.” Again, bullshit. The Touring models for 2011 had the 103 cu. in. engine and ABS so this additional value was NOT added in 2012. Again, to say they are not changing prices while adding extra value through a bigger motor and ABS is also OUTRIGHT DISHONEST!
“... realign the price with the American market” PPPLLLLLEEEAAASSSEEEE!!!! The price drop doesn't even begin to address the misalignment with the American market. It also only minimally closes the gap between what HD sells for in NZ and what HD sells for in Aus. And while a few f-wits harp on about how a small market like Aus cannot expect pricing that matches a huge market like the U.S. those same individuals fail to consider that a much much smaller market, served by the same HD AUSTRALIA gets pricing that is much much lower. These individuals claiming you need high prices in small markets then use the excuse that you cannot have high prices in even smaller markets because the average wage is lower and HD AUSTRALIA is being considerate of these poor Kiwi's. HD AUSTRALIA considerate, what a laugh!
“... will see grey imports dry up” is an ominous indication of what HD is up to. They know they have no competition once they kill the “grey import” market, especially if the Legislation is not changed, and one can confidently assume the second they kill the grey import market they will jack prices back up. Some will say that is good business; I say, I have seen enough to know how disreputable HD's behaviour has been, this current article further emphasises their lack of integrity, and I will continue to try to expose them whenever and wherever I can.
And as most of you also know, I do not think HD is not alone in this behaviour. For example, Honda has just reduced the price of the 2010 Goldwing to $35,000. They did not bring in any 2011's and the 2012's won't arrive until January. Who wants to bet they 2012's will also be about $35,000?
Our Government has created Legislation that ensures we do not have a free market and unless we take the initiative we will not get the competition and pricing we deserve.
Almost forgot, here's a new spreadsheet with 2012 pricing.
As always, this information is just that, information only. I make no commitment of accuracy or in any other way warrantee the usefulness of this information for ANY purposes whatsoever!
Hey Greygo.
Mongrel, your argument is naive. And I've addressed it before, but, one more time for those who missed it or just can't get it.
Organisations like HD should not be deciding how to set price without competition. HD in NZ has competition, anyone can import and sell a NEW Harley. Australia does not have competition, only HD can import and sell NEW Harleys. Competition gets Kiwis a better price!
Yes NZ might have a different cost-of-living but Harleys are cheaper there because of competition. Maybe everything is cheaper there because of competition and that is why they have a lower cost-of-living; not a lower standard-of-living mind you, just less expensive. And what is wrong with that? To think that Harleys are cheaper because some GOD OF HARLEY PRICING looks down and says, oh, poor Kiwis, they cannot afford to pay so much as Australians so we'll discount is delusional.
COMPETITION sets the price, as it should here in Australia!! And we see proof when HD says they are reducing prices because of competition from the grey market. COMPETITION is what we need, not HD monopolies!!
As to my math, give me one specific figure you do not understand and I'll explain it. Or even better, look at each calculation in each cell of the spreadsheet, nothing is hidden, and see how I worked out the figures. And then if I have made an error, I'd be happy to debate it. But general statements like "it is full of it" are ....well .... full of it!
GREYGO...
I just want you to answer this simple question - and forget all of your exchange rate bullshit that you use to muddy the waters... the question is this....
If Kiwi walks into a dealer in NZ, what will the RR be for say a 2011 Fatboy? Now explain to me how that is cheaper for our Kiwi friend?
Hang on.... let me give you the answer.. $30,595
Regardless of your exchange rate crap, it is still going to cost our friend across the ditch, 30 grand, so please tell me how the competition is better. 30 grand to a kiwi is still 30 grand old mate, and believe me, 30 grand is a lot harder to find for the average Kiwi.
So... lets put it in plane english so all can understand... here we go....
2011 Fatboy - In Aus = $29,250
2011 Fatboy - in NZ = $30,595
According to the Australian Bureau of Stats...
The average salary in Aus is $69,233
The average salary in NZ is $55,550
SO...
In Australia a 2011 Fatboy will cost the average person 42% of their annual income.
In NZ a 2011 Fatboy will cost the average Kiwi 55% of their annual income.
As the above example shows you, the cost of the bike is actually higher for a Kiwi to buy off the showroom floor, than it does the average Aussie.
The ONLY saving grace to this is that our friends across the ditch have a slightly lower cost of living - meaning that it will almost balance out in the end - although, it is actually still going to cost our Kiwi mate more for his beloved Fatboy!
The End.
Haha, good try Mongrel but you are still mssing the point.
A Kiwi can take his money and go to the States and buy a bike and after shipping, insurance, duties and exchange rate adjustments have it to ride in NZ for about the same as he is being charged by HD NZ.
If an Aussie could do the same he would have a bike in Australia for much less than he can buy one from HD AUS.
It isn't about average income, it's about COMPETITION.
HD AUS gets away with charging more in Aus because they have no competition.
THE END!!
