Was in Kingaroy yesty and called in to the harley dealer for bo peek, quizzed the salesman about the prices etc, he said since HD took over the dealership in Aus, parts have come down eight times and not likely to go up for a long time, i did ask about bike prices in the same sentence but he skipped around that a bit, he did say some have gone up a bit, mainly sportsters and mentioned the bikes which have come down but didnt state if they where gunna stay down, and i wasnt on the ball enough to push the issue, maybe if i was planning to buy i would have been more inquisitive.

Gents, as we can see by the drop in the price of some bikes and the increase in the price of others, THIS IS NOT AN EXCHANGE RATE ISSUE!

That is undeniable! If it was an exchange rate issue bikes in New Zealand would not be so much cheaper. See here for a NEW AND IMPROVED comparison of Australia versus New Zealand pricing.

For them that missed it, prices for NZ and Australia are set by Harley Davidson Australia in Ryde NSW. Imports for NZ and Australia are ALL done by Harley Davidson Australia in Ryde NSW and New Zealand being a smaller market is likely less profitable so by rights bike prices should be more in NZ but are much much less.

Further, the New Zealand dollar is worth much less than the Australian dollar and has been for years and yet bikes are much cheaper there, so again I say, THIS IS NOT AN EXCHANGE RATE ISSUE!

THE PROBLEM RESULTS FROM LEGISLATION THAT THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT HAS IN PLACE THAT GIVES EVERY FOREIGN MOTORCYCLE MANUFACTURER A MONOPLOY SO NO ONE CAN COMPETE WITH THEIR PRICES ON NEW BIKES. THEY EACH CAN SET ANY PRICE THEY WANT AND WE CAN DO SFA.

As a rough calculation, this means that foreign motorcycle manufacturers, on sales of about $1B per year, take $250M in extraordinary profit out of Australia. By extraordinary profit I mean that on the first $750M in sales they make the same profit as they do in other countries, like NZ, and then they take an extra $250M in additional clear profit over-and-above what they need to run a profitable business.

That is gouging and it is only possible because of The Motor Vehicles Standards Act 1989.

Our Government is behind this gouging. Amazingly, from all the conversations I've had with the Government, it seems like they don't even know they are the problem.

I am working to highlight this to them.

 I am sorry, but there some major political spin happening here with regards to NZ prices.

Firstlty - let me say that I have no affiliation with HD whatsoever, and am not defending them in any way, for any benefit, but let's get some facts right.

The spreadsheet linked above goes a long way to muddy the waters with regards to pricing between Aus and NZ.

Let's look at the facts....

 

Price of a Fatboy in AUS = $32,250

Price of a Fatboy in NZ = $32,395

 

The most important figures here are what the customer pays - NOT the difference in the price when converted to US dollars.  The spreadsheet states that Aussies pay $7,942 more than NZ - which is RUBBISH!!!  If you go to NZ and buy a FatBoy you will pay $32,395 NZ dollars.  Unless you can walk into the dealer an pay in US dollars, the argument is mute.

NOW... let's look at some other factors...    Go and see what the average wage is in NZ, and you will soon see that they get paid less than we do - OK - The cost of living is a little lower - HOWEVER - It is certainly a bit harder for a NZer to pay $32K than an Aussie of his equal employment.

 

The spreadheet above is very misleading and gives the impression that you can buy a FatBoy nearly 8 grand cheaper than in AUS, which is bollocks!!  YES... Harley Davidson might be pocketing more because of the exchange rate, but the end user pays the same price, which is actually MORE expensive for you average NZer compared to Aus.

 

NOW... let's look at one other thing here while we are at it...

The exchange rate for NZ to USD is .82US.  Do you know what that means??  It means that if Mr Kiwi wants to buy and HD from US and import it to NZ, they are going to pay a CRAP more than us Aussies.  WE could get a good deal if you bought one in NZ and imported it - but not if you live in NZ, and are paid in NZ dollars.

SO... before we all jump up and down and cry poor - know the facts...

They are NOT cheaper in NZ to the customer.
You can't walk into a HD dealer and pay nearly 8 grand less of say a FatBoy.

This sort of spin confuses the crap out of people and really serves no purpose.

 

As mentioned... I am no way connected to HD.  I have no agenda here... I just hate seeing fatcs all churned up and spat out with more spin than the Gillard Government.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong!

 

Cheers
Mongrel

Mongrel, consider yourself corrected, YOU'RE WRONG!

Say, just say, I could buy a H-D anywhere in the world, over the internet, like is happening now with every other product where Australians are being gouged.

By your argument we should pay as if the Australian dollar is not more valuable than the New Zealand dollar. Aussies should pay $33,250 AUS and Kiwis should pay $32,395 NZD for a Fatboy off the internet. Just try to convince anyone who buys anything overseas that this is the way it should work. Your argument is complete rubbish.

It is not an argument you can win.

The fact that we cannot buy a new H-D off the net and ship it to Aus is why we pay so much. New Zealanders can buy an H-D off the net and ship it to NZ and if they can do so for less than they can buy from H-D in NZ, they can save money. H-D in NZ know this and that is why H-D's are priced as they are in NZ. It has nothing to do with Kiwis' income versus Australians.

Mate, Unless the NZ dollar becomes parity with the US dollar - (Never going to happen) then you will not be able to save very much by importing a HD into NZ. As your spreadsheet above states... The price with current exchange rate is = $27,136. Then add all the crap that will need to be done to get it into NZ and complianced, and you might as well have bought it off the showroom floor. Again - it's very clever spin.

You are right... It is not an argument I can win - nor do I want to - because unfortunately some will never see the facts for what they are.

The fact is right now a New Zealand shopper will not pay much less for a spanking new HD if he or she imported it... AND... if they do, compared to the median wage prices etc etc, they will actually pay a bigger slice of their income to do so. So in fact, they are WORSE off than we.

But anyways... like you said... not an argument I can win I'm afraid.

Just one thing... If you were the manufacturer of a product that sold around the world - YOUR PRODUCT, I am sure you would want to control how much money you make and who can pay what - that is for sure, because I know I would.

And... if the dollar ever gets back to .65c USD, let's see how many come out of the woodwork to cry foul that they should be paying $40,000 - None I will bet.

Anyways... its all just academic really!!

Mongrel,

A Kiwi could buy a Fatboy off the net for $18,000 US, (see column D) which is about $21,950 NZD ($18,000 / .82). He would then have to pay shipping (say $2,000 USD or $2,174 NZD). So to land a Fatboy in NZ will cost $20,000 USD or $24,124 NZD.

A Kiwi then needs to pay 15% GST on the bike + shipping, so $24,124 * 15% GST ( $3,618 NZD) making the bike now worth $27,742 NZD.

New Zealand accepts the compliance plate from the U.S, Japan, the U.K, Australia and European countries as equivalent to an NZ compliance plate so no 'compliance work' is required.

That means a Kiwi can put a Fatboy on the road in NZ for about $27,742 NZD or buy it form H-D NZ for $32,250 NZD saving $4,500 NZD but losing the relationship with H-D NZ and maybe even losing the warrantee (not sure about this).

In any case, a $4,500 savings hardly seems worth the effort and risk. And that is why H-D's are priced as they are in NZ. Just as much as they can get away with before Kiwis will import their own.

If Australians could do the same, the costs (using exchange at 1.05 Aud = 1 USD) would be $18,000 USD = $17,143 AUD plus 5% duty ($857 AUD) plus shipping $2,000 USD = $1,905 AUD bringing the total to land a Fatboy in Australia at $19,905 AUD. Aussies then pay 10% GST ($1,990) bringing the bike cleared through customs at $21,895 AUD.

Australia has STUPID compliance issues but even so a compliance plate for a Fatboy could be had for about $2,000, and that would mean an Aussie could put a Fatboy on the road in Aus for $23,895. However, to buy one from H-D Australia is $32,250 AUD, a difference of  $8,355 AUD.

An $8,000 saving seems worth some effort, I for one would be interested in pursuing this and for a more expensive bike like an Electra Glide the savings are more like $10,000+, and I'd definately pursue that!

So why can H-D Australia charge over $8,000 more for a Fatboy than what an Aussie can put one on the road for? Because we cannot import new bikes. H-D Australia does not have to compete.

In NZ, where Kiwis can import new bikes H-D charges much less because if they didn't Kiwis would simply import their own bikes!

And don't dismiss these numbers saying the AUD is equal to the NZD, we've done that one and it is NOT a valid argument!

 

 

JD, protecting the auto industry is one thing, protecting the motorcycle industry that AUSTRALIA DOES NOT HAVE is ludicrous to even suggest!

 Greygo - You are missing the point brother.  HD are in business to make money.  Not for you or I to have a bike as cheap as we would like it!

If you are not happy about that, then buy a Yammi or a Kwaka.  If I were HD and could make high profits on bikes around the world, then bugger me, I would be doing it!!

Do you really think its all about value for money??  It has nothing to do with value for money.  It is what the bean counters at HD think is the best price they can put on them to maximise their profit.  HD, like any other business on the planet, has one agenda.... to be profitable, so, like any other business on the planet, they will maximise their profits.

 

SO... lets look at this in perspective...

 

How long did HD Aus take a kick in the back pocket when our dollar was down?  When the dollar was at .70, you would not find one single Aussie who was complaining that they were getting a raw deal on the exchange rate. With that said, I am happy to agree with you that there is a large gap bewteen the prices in the USA and the price here based on the exchange rate, as long as you are willing to let HD put the price up when the dollar changes!  I bet you wouldn't.

And just like other major corperations around the world, they don't operate form just year to year... so the bean counters at HD are looking at the good times they are having with the exchange rate and are happy to be making back some of the losses they took during the bad times.

Regardless of all of this... your argument is only valid while we have a strong dollar.  As soon as the dollar drops to even be equal to the US dollar, your argument starts to take on water.  If it slips back to .70, then we will all be cheering and thanking HD that they don't put the price up to match!

The dollar will not stay this strong forever - it will slide again, and when it does, we will still be buying FatBoys for $32,000, and the value of my bike in Aus will be the same because the owner of the brand has taken steps to ensure price stabilty. 

I will say again what I said in an earlier email... if you love your HD so much, why would you want to see it priced like a Hyundai!  It just does not make sense.  If you want a cheap bike, go buy one and stop bagging a company for looking after its brand and the profits it makes for its shareholders.

Me, I like the fact that HDs are expensive - but hey... I like expensive shit. LOL!  

 

Anyways... let's jyst agree to disagree, and enjoy the wind in our hair... if this freakin cold snap would piss off.  

Aye Aye Cap'n!

JD, they can change the laws for motorcycles alone, and not just that, they can change them for just the LC class motorcycle. I could give a rats about LA-Mopeds, LB-threewheel Mopeds, LD- motorcycles with side cars or LE- motor-trikes. LC's are the bulk of all motorcycles and we have no Australian industry so what is being protected. LE's probably still deserve protection because Australia does have some bloody good trike manufacturers.

Mongrel, you're dreaming if you think H-D is going to hold prices if the A$ drops to $0.70 They will put the price up and then what will you argue? As to maximising profit I could give a shit what they charge, they can double or even triple the price in Australia for all I care, but I should be able to buy from wherever I can get the best price, not be forced to buy from the Australian supplier. Just like I can with a large selection of items. I want a free market, not some captive market where the vendor can arbitrarily charge whatever they f'ing well please and especially not a captive market that is a result of f'd-up Legislation where OUR Government hands us over to foreign corporatiosn to be gouged. Is Harley not able to compete in a free market? Do they need our Government to hold us in position while the rape us?

Steve, I know I'm on a winning argument when the only response is an ad hominem attact aimed at me personally. I mean, how valid would my argument appear if I responded by saying you look like a garden gnome with his ass hangin out so obviously don't know what you're talking about. :-)

I was going to leave it at that... But I can't help myself.

If, like you say Pete, they have been screwing us for years, why was the price the same back in 2006 when the dollar was shit!

You fuckers need to do your research before you jump on and let your belly rumble. Back in 2006 when the dollar was in the .60s the prices of a HD in Aus didn't budge! If they acted like some of you think they do, then the prices should have been 35% higher than than they are now. But in fact they were still relative to where they are today. A FatBoy still cost you close to $30, 000 on the road. So the statement... "they been screwn us for years" is a complete crock of shit.

Why do you feel it is your "right" to buy from wherever you want?? You don't make the fucking thing, HD do, and as it is their product, they have the right to sell it to whomever and at whatever price they like, and protect their market as best they can. Right now the Gov has legislation in place, and HD will use to the best of their ability. Good on em.

You keep forgetting HD Aus employs Australians. HD itself might be USA based company, but how many Aussies does it employ? Think about that before you want to see the local version of the company fucked.

Like someone said before... how many Bonds employees went out the back door.

For fuck sake... stop your whining like a spoilt school girl. If you can't afford a new HD - Tough shit. Go buy a Yamaha. I saved my arse off to buy my bike and was happy to pay it.

For the rest of us out there that were happy to pay what they did for the shiny new beast - Sit back, smile, have a JD and enjoy the good times.

Peace.
Mongrel

Mongrel, would you be happy if rather than buying your petrol from wherever it was least expensive, the Government legislated that you had to buy it from within 5 kilometers of where you lived, regardless of the price? Of course you wouldn't, especially if the guys 10 kilometers away were able to buy from wherever they wanted and saved 30% by being able to do so.

If you answer yes you really are a mongrel!

And yet that is exactly what you are saying every motorcycle importer including H-D is entitled to expect. They should be supported by the Government with Legislation saying you have to buy from H-D Australia when the guys across the ditch are buying from H-D Australia for 30% less.

I have said repeatedly, THIS IS NOT ABOUT EXCHANGE RATES, it is also not about wages and earnings, it is not about protecting a home industry or jobs. It is about Legislation that makes no sense, Legislation the Government cannot explain and I've asked 'em in over 2 dozens emails to do so, Legislation that allows foreign coprorations to gouge Aussies and for which Aussies get NO benefit that Kiwis do not also get at a much reduced price - motorcycles to ride!

But keep trying to sell the idea that Aussies like paying a premium and should have to. It doesn't hold water or Harley pricing would not have been, as Kingchops said, "One of the hot topics ever since he started the HD Forum 4 years ago"!

It will not go away, and I will not quit until I have really shaken this tree - you've seen nothing yet matey!

Well good luck on your crusade.

Petrol, Smokes, Alcohol - the Gov controls them all, so you might as well shake those trees too. LOL!

Thanks Mongrel, actually someone mentioned helmets a while ago, maybe that's worth a looksee? I'm starting to understand where the fuckups are and how to expose them so might as well put it to good use!

Why whinge about the price?   If you don't want to pay the price....don't buy the bike. I hear people on this forum bragging how cheap the parts are from the US.... When prospective clients try to push my quote down by telling me that they can get the job done cheaper I tell 'em to go with the cheaper quote. Yes I did attend the rallies against Work Choices with my employees.  Go and live in NZ and buy the bike cheaper, and earn a lot less, Ya selfish morons....In fact, why don't you whinging bastards just fuck right off and live in a 3rd world country where a beer costs a 5th of what it does here?

Anyone here remember the Wages Accord in the old Senate Chamber in the 80's?        Cretins!

Steve, thanks for the info on 'ad hominem'. I know a fucker that uses it all the time, he's never had a good grasp of logic.

Hahahaha.......!

 Oh shit... I need a piss!!  

It looks like there are only a couple of people here who CANNOT understand that it is NO LONGER ABOUT PRICE!

For those who do understand, sorry to be repetitive but as VirtualT says, "it's our fucking nanny state government thats 90% of the problem if I see it right". Bang on.

Price is a symptom of a much bigger problem.

I know most of you get this and for those who don't, well, "I can't fix stupid".

Thanks Steve, with you and Mongrel on side this thread may go cold for a while.

In the next week or two I should be hearing back from the two Members of Parliament I've spoken to, so will provide updates when I do! Not counting chickens as they may not have enough leverage to force change but their positive response indicated that it was an issue that could be escalated and would likely be taken on by others as well. We'll see.