Lets not forget the rent the dealers have to pay on their shop. The way commercial/retail rents are in Australia (one of the highest in the world I think) I imagine it is a fairly substantial cost!

plus all those free Latte's and stuff that the little hoggies slurp up in their shiny showrooms!

Well looky here!!

Ain't that a dead mouse fuck for ya'.....haha.

Even so, it strikes me like one of those middle-east dictators promising to 'change'. I'll believe it when I see it! And until then there is more work to do to make sure that Harley Australia operates in a free-market and not this fucked-up price-controlled monopoly they've taken advantage of for all too long!

This ain't over yet!

you go Greygo....p.s. look in the news section, they must have heard ya.

The coincidence between the latest news and Greygo's whining is perfect timing considering I'm looking for new bike in August/September and with a new HD dealership opening around here soon somewhere the savings could be even greater. According to Greygo's math I could have meself a new 2011 Road King for $562.50 + import tax, GST, shipping and duty.

What does that equate to I wonder?

The extra $800 i don't mind paying, if they do me a good deal on extra's and not put 100% on top of parts (v&h exhaust..etc) like i have read, then i'll put a deposit down, if i get time 2morrow i'll go in, if not next week. All i want is to atleast "feel" like im getting a good deal, rather than "knowing" i'm about to take it in the ass with no vaseline, thats the difference between put my money down now and walking away.
Andrew

Oh I know cost on the 883 isnt near 13,600.... who would sell all their bikes at cost or just above anyway?

You could have picked on the housing market before I just bought, would have saved me tens of harleys.

 

Hey Greygo, that's quite a bitch slappin' you're gettin' here!

'HD's cost too much in OZ!!'  is a well known whinge amongst the Members - and the HD haters beyond this forum - and it's perhaps the sheer volume of that sentiment that's getting up some collective noses. Whatever.

I'm importing a cheaper HD from the US for exactly the reasons you state. I'd prefer to buy local but that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

Maybe the blokes at Eureka shoulda just bent over and taken it, ay? Nah mate, good luck with your quest and thanks for givin' a shit! 

 

It's been a couple of days but the bitch is back! Get your bitch-slappin' gear out if you think you're man enough!

Here's the thing, there's a whisper that HD Australia may drop prices on a few bikes but they've just raised prices on the 883 Iron so it's hard to believe they understand the current level of customer disgust. And the Heavenly boys have some good deals on the go at the moment (thx for pic's Rodders) but no one is sure why; old stock, over-stocked, maybe just need floor space, preparing for arrival of lower priced 2012's, who knows? No one believes it is an indicator of future significant price-drops, again remembering the 883 Iron price increase.

So, it seems HD Australia can't be trusted, and that's sad, but they're reamed Aussies through thick and thin, good and bad, and like all Dictators think they can now offer 5% of sweet-fuck-all and everything will be forgetten. Well bullshit to that.

So, if a price-drop were to come what expectations might one have as to the size and range of products it will apply to?

Remembering that HD PRICES IN NZ ARE SET BY A FREE MARKET, NOT SIMPLY BY HD'S GREED. HD HAS TO COMPETE IN THIS FREE-MARKET AND PRICE ACCORDINGLY! A free-market, that's it, that is the only reason.

In NZ, HD is able to sell product, cover costs, make a profit and support their dealer network, but cannot overprice! The price is based on free and open competition. If HD started gouging, then Kiwis would simply by-pass them and import direct.

When HD has to compete, they can, and the prices are much lower! LOCK THIS THOUGHT IN!

Also, just one other point, currency exchange rate fluctuations are a distraction. Yes they are important, and yes Aussies should get value for our A$, but Harley U.S. who owns HD Australia buys insurance to cover them for changes in exchange rates. It's called a currency hedging contract. They state in their annual financial statement, "The Company utilizes foreign currency contracts to mitigate the effect of the Euro, the Australian dollar and the Japanese yen fluctuations on earnings. The foreign currency contracts are entered into with banks and allow the Company to exchange a specified amount of foreign currency for U.S. dollars at a future date, based on a fixed exchange rate."

So, the Bank takes the risk. It's just good business on HD's part but don't cry for them when ANY currency takes a dive because they have their insurance, over $100M of it. If you are the weepy sort and need a good cry, cry for the Banks. And if you can muster a tear for those Master Reamers you're a unique little girl indeed!

So, what price should Harleys be in Australia? They should be whatever price an individual could import them for, as is the case in NZ.

If HD Australia does not adjust prices to this free-market price then they are taking advantage of Government legislation that allows them to ignore their customers, regardless of how pissed off we are, and ream-on like corrupt Dictators.

Yup, this has only just begun, it could take a while but I'm not going anywhere; I'm having too much fun riught here!

Hey Geygo,

Mate keep going, you have a good point.

Just wondering do you own a bike?

Fangio, yup I've got a 2010 1200C Skirtser. Had a 2008 that I used to commute into the city daily but traded-in for the 2010 when the 2-year warrantee expired on the 2008.

Thinking if the price is right I might look at an Electra Glide later in the year as the Sporty is a bit small for the highway. The thing about a Sporty is how great it is as a commuter and I can pick it up by myself, big plus when you ride alone.

If the price is really right I may even keep the Sporty as it's perfect for running to the corner or a Sunday ride to the beach, etc.

So, The Bitch rides a Skirtser, whaddayaexpect?

so if and when you purchase your new ride, are you going to tell them that they are a pack of thiving aresholes that rip us off at everything., and the dealer will smile at you and say, do you want the bike or not...and he will wave goodbye to you as you ride off...but by crickey mate, maintain the rage

and mate why refer to yourself as a bitch? unless your a shiela, then it would be ok.

Ah, Fangio, you want rational answers to emotive questions. I would have to rank as the world's ugliest Sheila, if I were a Sheila. And I only refer to myself as a Bitch because others on this thread have said I've received a bitch-slapping! But has it never puzzled you about Aussie cross-dressing. I mean it is about as Australian as you can get - have you never watched the Footy Show? If the NRL legends are not in drag they're just not happy! And the macho-NRL fans love it. Why? Good fucking quesion.

But, no more from me, not a bitch, bitch-slapping is only done by misogynists who ain't got the balls to take on a man, and so, thanks, the whole bitch-slapping misogynist thing is dead.

As to the new bike purchase, I would have thought by now you'd have worked out that rage is not part of what I do. Rational factual analytical surgical take-down is what I enjoy. Information is power and I'll hang these bastards by their annual fianancial statements and other pricing details, like cost / wholesale pricing / retail mark-up, etc. that I have yet to expose.

No rage mate, it's just a game. I like to call it "Dictator Takedown". And you know what, it costs me nothing but it could be very expensive for The Dictators.

Are you having as much fun as I am? Remember, corrupt regimes hate to be exposed, they cannot justify corruption, so my game costs me nothing, but it could cost them millions!

I have no rage, anger is a destructive emotion. Make others angry and they will eventually self-destruct.

Road-rage is a good example. Wave, friendly-like and blow kisses at anyone who exhibits road-rage, you'll piss them off no end! :-)

Hi all...Go for it Greygo.

I recently purtchased a new Fatboy lo 2011 model,Got it for $27000 ride away.I know this discount still kept the bike well over priced.However,One of my considerations of buying a Harley was resale value.Your going to fuck that up Greygo,LOL.

When you buy a new Harley,Harley Aus emails you a questionair to fill out.The questions basically relate to how much of a dedicated one eyed Harley owner you are,Would you consider another brand ect ect, and of course how happy you are with the sevices.Harley is only interested in new buyers naturally.They also know 99% of Ozzy Harley owners are one eyed,Harley or nothing riders.Its our mentality that has caused some of this over priceing IMHO.

Isaac, no, I know it wasn't, 'nuff said. And the Dictator will be takin' a look at his empire soon, if not already. HD Aus customers are in revolt!

tosscaa, wouldn't it have been great if the cylops in Sinbad was wearin' a Harley t-shirt, a one-eyed HD monster. That would make a good HD Ad I reckon. It would represent how one-eyed HD rider s are.

BUT, there is a wider perspective to consider. A free-market means all bikes from all manufacturers will drop in price. For example, the free-market in NZ means you can buy a Honda Goldwing for around A$30,000. So, tell me, which of you one-eyed Harley die-hards would spend A$40,000 on a spic Electra-Glide with bling, if you could get a Honda Goldwing for A$30,000? Anyone?

This Australian Government sponsored market corruption has damaged the industry and while Harley has been the focus of this thread 'till now, make no mistake, the industry needs to get free-market real!

Why do I mention this now? Because the first mover will take a huge slice of market share. If HD starts pricing like they were in a free-market they will grab a huge slice of their competitors market share. Who would buy a Goldwing at $40,000+ when you could get a Harley Electra Glide at $30,000. No one, I suspect. Harley could shut down Honda, Kwaka, Beemer, and most other competitors, IF THEY MOVE FIRST. If they wait for the others to move, so all manufacturers drop prices together, they will only maintain their current market-share. Harley, if they are smart can use this to gain huge advantage, even dropping prices for a few months before the others do would be significant.

Kwaka, Honda, Beemer, they're all over priced compared to free-market pricing. The first manufacturer to price as-if-in-a-free-market will steal a huge charge on their competitiors. Harley could do this. Harley could double or triple their market share in Australia.

When, like Harley, you have the most recognised brand and most highly desired product in the market, it makes good sense to go for market share, not short-term profit. To regain each 1% of market-share will cost a competitor much much more than the short -term profits gained when a market leader price-gouges.

Way back in the early posts on this thread we had some comments on business strategies that improve profitability and market position, I took some flack for suggestions I made but would now like to suggest that others should maybe review their comments and consider what I am really suggesting.

Harley is the most desired brand in the motorcycle market, screwing everyone who wants one is not smart!

HD could drop their prices immediately, but would everyone be happy if their bikes devalued five to ten grand overnight . Your changeover figure would remain the same on a new deal...the start and finish figures would be lower that's all. Most ones to benefit would be first up, no trade buyers / newbies and we'd all be so pleased for them, wouldn't we.... I rang dealers from Sydney to Central Qld recently for trade in values on a 2011 SG. Local dealer ended up with a three grand better changeover than anyone could offer. Was given almost full retail as a trade. It means the last bike cost me two and a half grand to own for nearly three years. If it wasn't that good a deal, I'd still be riding the old one. No one was forcing me to buy a new bike, especially the mrs. There are some good deals out there. Just wait, be patient and be prepared to grab them on the spot when they come up.

Many on this thread are arguing for just one thing, foreign motorcycle manufacturers should be given unfair advantage over Australians. That is, foreign motorcycle manufacturers should not have to compete in an open and free market.

Rather than working through dozens of individual examples I'd like just one person to tell me why this protection should be continued.

Here are my arguments why I say this protection should not be continued:

1/ it supports price gouging
2/ the extra profits go offshore (U.S., Japan, Germany, Italy, etc.)
3/ it does not enhance the Australian labour force, we have no motorcycle manufacturing industry to protect

Tell me why I'm wrong! And remember, the NZ Government feels no need to allow foreigners to gouge Kiwis! They have a free market that is working just fine; it's profitable, it's viable, it's dynamic! Why can't Australia do this?

Im glad you finally brought some better stats into the game a few posts back. Early on seemed like bad economic maths, stretched for your argument. 

I dont think you will find many that dissagree with you, and as many folks said - it has been a regular topic of discussion here. It was the delivery that was hard to swallow. Brand new to the site and hammering out many posts about the "dictators" and nothing else about motorcycles or HD's. Lemme put it this way.... If I burst into your local pub/ club/ rsl/ bar shouting about something, even if it was a good arguement, it wouldnt be met well.

From what I can tell, when most people join here they first write an introduction. Your first post was a price comparison yes? Hardly your normal social introduction.

Then you can easily do a search on here or google to see if this kind of thing has been discussed in length here.

Armed with that, you can start a new topic extending, updating or revising what was said (with links if need be). I reckon most the bashing is because older members have visited this topic so many times, and then again from a new bloke who didnt even shake their hand and say hello....?

Shit in, shit out, yes?

Now you have settled, it seems you are getting more ears.

For those who urged me to keep at it I just want to highlight that I am still digging and making good headway.

When one starts dealing with the Government everything slows down. They provide non-answer after non-answer like they do not understand the question. But we've all watched them waffle and distract anytime they are asked a hard question and do not want to have the stupidity behind their fucked-up legislation exposed.

But, as with Harley's greed and price gouging based soley on opportunity, supported by this fucked-up legislation, it will be exposed.

One of the interesting pieces of information I found is market share details comparing sales in 2009 to sales in 2010; see here . As with a lot of stat's, these raise as many questions as they answer. A summary review is here . There are a few interesting details but much of it seems to compare apples to oranges so I am not sure any absolute truths are revealed. When reading these articles remember the old saying, "Lies, damn lies and statistics!" One might almost see justification for certain HD price drops (big bore) and other price increases (Iron 883) but I do not find enough depth in the information to make any firm conclusions!!!

I will post more when I've cracked the Government, as to when that might be, how long is a piece of string?

Oh, and if anyone can assist by providing me with HD dealer buy prices (the price dealers buy from HD Australia) , PM me a phone number or call me anonymously on 0411-243-975. I want to understand where the profit is and whether buy prices vary from dealer to dealer?