UPDATE AS AT Jan 21, 2012

See my communications with the Government here.

Note the underlined links with copies of letters and responses to/from my MP and the Parliamentary secretary responsible.

UPDATE AS AT OCT 20, 2011

See this post on HD Australia's latest deception.

And this post for a new Pricing Spreadsheet with 2012 prices.

And here is a post that works through one example of how the spreadsheet works.

UPDATE AST AT MAY 2011 BELOW

www.crikey.com.au/2011/05/09/online-retailing-the-great-australian-gouge/

Harley price gouging exposed!

A few updates:

1/ Harley Davidson motorcycles sold in Australia are 1/3 more expensive that those sold in New Zealand. See here.

2/ Imports and price setting for both NZ and Aus are by Harley Davidson Australia in Ryde NSW. The same company does both!

3/ Importing into New Zealand is just marginally more expensive than into Australia, the market is smaller and less profitable, so bikes should be more expensive there.

So why are Harleys so much more expensive in Australia?

New Zealand has a free-market. New Zealand allows anyone to import a new motorcycle so Harley has no monopoly there. If their prices were not competitive with what an individual could import for, everyone in New Zealand would simply import their own bike.

Harley Australia is using Government legislated market controls that allow them to gouge Australian customers. It is not because Harleys are a premium brand, or because costs are high, or for any other legitimate reason.

It is simply because Harley can gouge Australians and not New Zealanders and so they do just that!

 

FOR ANYONE WANTING TO CONTACT ME PRIVATELY MY NAME IS GREG BEAN AND MY EMAIL IS GREG.BEAN@ROCKETMAIL.COM.

Nothing new there

 and not about to change

And so are you saying everyone should just bend over and take it or should we, and you occasionally stand up for a cause?

They're getting shot in the middle east for standing up for what they believe, isn't it about time we showed a few balls rather than whining about getting screwed?

 i do make a stand i  buy my parts from the usa when the prices in oz come down i will buy them in oz

So when you say, "And not about to change", you mean "I'm right mate"! As a result you will continue to have to buy from the U.S. and never get a decent deal locally, and are happy with that?

Each of us can do this and never address the bigger issue. I could too. But I want to see HD Australia do what is right by all of us.

Continue to buy from overseas, but from what I understand that door is also about to close, or take a stand and get these bastards to deliver value for money.

HD Australia also manages NZ and sells bikes (and parts?) in New Zealand for 1/4 less than we in Australia pay. We need to let them know this price gouging is not acceptable.

Help me take a stand, call them, tell your dealer you are pissed raise a stink.

It's not like I'm asking you to risk your life against a murderous dictator!

 

We pay 1/3 more for an HD in Aus than they do in NZ.

Prices for both Aus and NZ are set by HD Aus in Ryde.

Imports for Aus and NZ are by HD Aus in Ryde.

NZ pays 15% GST to Aus 10%.

The NZ market is smaller and thus less profitable.

By rights HD’s should be more expensive in NZ but they are 1/3 less expensive there.

All arguments about market size, volume, taxes, shipping, overhead costs, super, bla, bla bla, are not valid when HD Aus can sell bikes for 1/3 less in NZ than in Aus!!

For example, HD Australia sell an Electra Glide Ultra Classic in NZ for almost $10,000 Australian dollars less than in Australia.

The wage situation supports my argument. Harley Davidson Australia is ripping off Aussies because they can!! Further, they have support from the Government to do so because unless you own and ride a bike overseas from new for 12 months you cannot bring a new bike into Australia. And brining in old bikes is fraught with issues.

Why does Australia have laws forbidding the import of new bikes? What or who is the Government protecting? We have no motorcycle industry to speak of.

And I am surprised I am getting so much negative argument; support your local shop or it will disappear but buy overseas, Kiwis can't afford it but Aussies are already used to being screwed, buy another makers bike, don't buy a bike, nothing new and it'll never change, etc. Everything except the one thing that will make the HD business in Australia strong; stay loyal but demand better pricing from HD Australia.

By-the-way, HD Australia which is owned by HD U.S. does $135,000,000 in Aus/NZ. This is published in HD U.S’s annual financial statements.

At $25,000 per average sale (my estimate) that is about 5,500 units. Or about 450 Harleys sold every month in Australia /NZ.

While it is only about 3% of HD U.S.’s worldwide market, it is a damn good busines in Australia. And with the profit margin here they are not at risk of going out of business.

They can provide better prices, they prove that by selling in NZ for 1/3 less than in Australia.

And they are not immune to customer pressure!

Greyco,

Have you contacted the ACCC or your local member of parliament about it?

It may sound lame but things can happen through those channels.

The question is, how much more do you need to cough up if you trade it in? If your bike is worth $25,000, then right now it will cost you an extra $12,000 to buy an Electra Glide Ultra Classic. If the price drops by 1/3 then the extra you will have to pay is only $8,000. That's a saving of $4,000!!

If you keep your bike who cares what it's worth? You ride it and enjoy it and that is priceless!

The devaluing old bikes argument only hurts HD owners who want to sell and go to another manufacturer's bike or sell up and quit riding completely.

Kingchops, that is on the cards but it would be nice to go to them with a large support group rather than as one lone voice.

Is anyone out there prepared to join a consumer initiative to pursue this? I'm 100% committed but would like some others to through their hat in the ring.

HogBagger, your maths are a bit off but my answer is, "Why would I care?"

Did I buy the bike to ride or to put on my front lawn and advertise to neighbours how much I spent? If I bought it to ride I will still be able to do so, it won't shrink by 1/3! If I bought it to advertise my wealth then I'm a dickhead and all my friends and neighbours are likely already laughing at me.

When I go to trade it in it will cost me less to upgrade, parts will be 1/3 less, extras will be 1/3 less, insurance will likely be cheaper, and service costs might come down.

The only person wo loses is the one who wants to sell-out completely or buy another manufacturers bike, but as long as you're riding it, or trading it in, or selling it to buy another you win.

HogBagger, my bike is 18 months old, so damn near new. I have done the maths and know I will be better off if prices are reduced by 1/3!

Right now to trade up to an Electric Glide Ultra Classic would cost me about $22,000. If prices are dropped by a 1/3 it will cost me about $15,000. That's a sving of $7,000.

Steve, the devaluation argument is a furphy. Arguing that guys who own old bikes should have the bike's value protected and to do so every one of the 5,500 new Harleys bought this year should be purchased at an inflated price is just not rational. And is even less rational when you realise that the parts for the old bikes are also bought at these inflated prices.

And my numbers are spot on, a 1/3 drop means a saving of $0.33 on every dollar. In your example that is $3,300 savings. That's not chickenfeed.

Red, $32,000 NZ is only $24,000 in Aus. However, HD Australia charges a Kiwi $32,000 for a bike and an Australian $32,000 as well making an extra $8,000 here for exactly the same bike, ride away, no more to pay. How can that be justified?

graygo the restriction of importing vehicles is to protect australian industry and keep people in jobs not just dealer staff but the people that freight parts and bikes, suppliers of products used in industry, sign writers, and the list goes on, if you can import your own new vehicle then what happens to the dealer??? they close. also what happens to the customer that bought their $30,000 that 6 months later could have bought it for $20,000, cos i sure know if someone sold something to me then sold the same thing to the next guy 10 grand cheaper id be pretty pissed and it would be the last of their product id buy, HDA structure their prices to balance on the dollar value. if our dollar jumps up the prices dont come straight down, but as a general rule our dollar is valued much lower, are the prices much higher during these periods? no. the prices will eventually change to reflect the dollar here but rather than jump up and down they ride the highs and lows. also if the new price comes down buy 1/3 there will be a flood of second hand bikes on the market devaluing your second hand bike probably more than 1/3 of its value. or should a $30000 bike here be worth $40000 in NZ. and a good point was raised about the average wage, if the NZ wage is lower the item has the same value to somebody here as it does there. by all means make your stand but if you buy over seas you will just succeed in destroying australias profits and drive the price higher

Red, in an earlier comment you said, "As most here buy their parts from the U.S. who gives a fuck about stealers. " So if your argument that all $'s are the same is correct, why is this?

My argument is rock solid, you need to review yours or get all these others who buy from the US to understand, according to your argument, that they're not saving money.

Jordan, most of what you say is pure supposition without proof. You think that's what might happen. But without breaking it into detail my answer is, "everything you argue says free-trade does not work". Perhaps you should educate the rest of the world about this.

Without naming names I am suspicious that there are a few trolls on this forum who work for HD, for HD Dealers, or have their own businesses that are benefitting from this price gouging. If you fit this category and have not declared your vested interest, you're being dishonest!

If you have a vested interest in seeing this price gouging continue but also have a legitimate argument that will hold water I'm sure we will all listen. But sniping at this cause with ill-formed twaddle so you can get fat by screwing others sucks.

Identify your vested interest and make you best argument. And let's see if you truly have a case.

I have no personal vested interest except to keep from getting screwed, nothing more.

I recognise as Kingchops has pointed out that MOST others also feel they are being screwed and pricing has been a hot topic for the 4 years this forum has existed. If this issue had been addressed 4 years ago all of the negative arguments above would be proved invalid and no discussion would be required!

How many more years are we going to get screwed? Will anyone want to go back to the current situation 4 years from now after we've had 4 years of legitimate pricing. Will the trolls be able to convince people life was better back then when we where gettng screwed. I think not!

This issue has not gone away for 4 years and is not going to go away until it is resolved! And trolls, let me introduce myself, I'm Big Billy Goat Gruff so get off of the fucking bridge!

Greygo, where's your online petition? Have you approached any other organizations (forums, clubs, dealers) about your campaign. Have you contacted Greg Bean about the discussions that have taken place? Are you Greg Bean? Care to enlighten us on those instead of attacking forum members of trolling, those of whom you know nothing about in turn coming off like a troll yourself. Have you any information on how much import tax etc HD pays or their margins before Caterpillar get their grubby little hands on them, anything?

You need to approach people with figures or at least some detail, not just a publication from Crikey.com as your only source of inspiration expecting everyone to jump on board and rally against Goliath.

Your thought is there, your method is not.

Deadwood, yup I'm Greg Bean. My email is greg.bean@rocketmail.com

You may want to look at a thread on HDForums that I put up a while ago on this same topic, See here . Below is what I said then,  note the link as well.

So are you interested in pursing this? Have you called Todd Piesley at HD Australia, phone 02-9886-0604 and told him you're pissed off? Has anyone?

I have been working on this for 5 months and the visibility is coming up. I'm neither trying to be invisible / anonymous nor undertaking this as a flash-in-the-pan. I have asked Kingchops about an online petition, I am pursuing Government regulators at the Dep't of Inf. andTransport, I'm meeting with my State and Federal Member of Parliament,  I've got visiblity via Crikey, and I am happy to chase clubs, and other associations. I have lots of financial details I can provide and am working to get more, BUT I AM JUST ONE PERSON.

I am happy to continue this effort but is anyone else out there ready to get behind it? I seem to be getting a lot of negative shit 'till now!

So, Deadwood, are you just bashing my ear, or what?

================================================== PRIOR HDFORUM THREAD BELOW  =====================

spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub

The link above is to a web page of 2011 price comparisons for every HD model. It shows we pay 1/3 more for an HD in Aus than in NZ. Prices for both Aus and NZ are set by HD Aus in Ryde. Imports for Aus and NZ are by HD Aus in Ryde. NZ pays 15% GST to Aus 10%. The NZ market is smaller and thus less profitable. By rights HD's should be more expensive in NZ.

BUT, HD Aus has virtually an identical price list for both Aus and NZ that does not consider the strength of the Aus currency. For example: 2011 Electra Glide Ultra Classic is ~ A$37,000 and also ~ NZ$37,000. It should be ~ A$27,750 and ~ NZ $ 37,000 based on exchange of NZ$1 = A$ 0.75. That's ~ A$9,250 more in Aus than NZ without justification!

I have spoken with HD Aus and they simply argue two things; the Aus market is conditioned to pay the much higher price (they do it becuase they can get away with it); 2/ a price drop to align with NZ pricing would devalue current Aus bikes (true but not completely negative).

The former argument supports their price gouging, the latter while true is only relevant to someone who is selling an HD and buying another manufacturer's bike or getting out of HD ownership entirely. The latter argument by HD Aus suggests that they are keeping the price high in Aus so people no longer wanting to own HD's benefit. That is a perverse argument that makes no sense at all.

Harley Owners should contact HD Aus to apply consumer pressure. The objective is to get better pricing for all HD enthusiasts and public pressure now may just see a price drop in the 2012 pricing due in July / August 2011. HD contact details are available in the link.

big buisness and big government been rippin us for years aint gonna stop because the taxes love inflated prices themedia is so political correct it wont side with the common person .i agree we pay too much for harleys thats why i got one and not 3

Wha!!? not so soon... my balls will ache. Only just digested full price. Are they 2011's or new 2010's?

And I thought this was a Steve Erwin appreciation thread